[NFP] Civilization VI: Possible New Civilizations Thread

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Eagle Pursuit, May 11, 2020.

  1. Abaxial

    Abaxial King

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    Isn't it just!

    I really don't get the argument that every corner of the globe has to be equally represented. "Oh, we don't have enough from Papua New Guinea, we should have the Gogodala!" Yet another tribe that most people have never heard of.
     
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  2. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    We don't really need any more to be fair, but definitely variety is nice. Maybe it is a sort of collector or obsessive hoarder mentality, I'm not sure. I know I downloaded stupid numbers of mod leaders for Civilization 5. Partly I just like learning about new peoples and places each time they expand the game and add peoples that are relatively unknown.

    I would say there is certainly a case to be made they should just move on to Civ 7, I am just speculating for the sake of it.
     
  3. Republic of San Montuoso

    Republic of San Montuoso King

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    It's less a "we must have at least 2 Papua New Guinea" mentality than a "Africa, a continent much more large and populous than Europe, with a deep and marvelous and tremendous History, has only 6 civilizations (8 if you stretch to include Arabia and Phoenicia), with one leader being clearly Hellenistic and the other being known for adopting European customs, while Europe, less populous and smaller, is already represented by 17 civs (+4 alternate leaders), while the European culture, history and heritage are also represented by 4 post-colonial civs instead of local, as interesting native cultures" mentality.
     
  4. Menocchio

    Menocchio Warlord

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    My future-Civilisation fantasies:

    Haida, under Cuneah of Kiusta;
    Armenia, under Tigranes the Great;
    Minoans, under The Prince of the Lilies;
    Haudenosaunee, under Jigonhsasee;
    Novgorod, under Rurik, Yaroslav the Wise, or Marfa Boretskaya;
    Punjab, under Ranjit Singh;
    Hausa, under Daurama.

    As much as new civilisations, though, I would also like to see new leaders for those already in the game, especially a pre-Romanov Russian leader, a Qing dynasty leader, a pre-Ptolemaic Egyptian leader (as many have said before) and, if the developers want to be especially bold and brash, a semi-mythic Bronze Age Greek leader like Menelaus.
     
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  5. SMcM

    SMcM Emperor

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    My questions would be firstly, why Daurama instead of the more famous Amina for Hausa? And secondly, should Yaroslav not be a leader for a Kievan-Rus civilization as opposed to Novgorod? He did rule from Kiev from what I'm aware. For Novgorod I would usually assume someone like Alexander Nevsky, from the time of the Novgorod Republic. Marfa Boretskaya makes sense for that too I suppose.
     
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  6. Xandinho

    Xandinho Deity

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    For a second round of passes I'd like to see:

    Assyria
    Austria
    Italy (or Venice)
    Iroquois
    Morroco (or Berbers)
    Navajo
    South American wildcard: can be Guarani, Argentina, Tupi...
    Final wildcard: can be Bulgaria, Hawaii, Tonga, Siam, Ashanti, Madagascar or Hittites.
    Alt-leader: Egyptian (Ramesses II)

    But I don't think so many civs are necessary, if it's to priorize only the main gaps, this would be my list:

    Assyria
    Italy (or Venice)
    Morroco (or Berbers)
    North American wildcard: Iroquois, Navajo...
    The others five leaders would be alt ones:
    Alt-leader 1: Egyptian (Ramesses II)
    Alt-leader 2: Russian (Ivan the Terrible or Olga of Kiev)
    Alt-leader 3: German (Otto von Bismarck or Maria Theresa)
    Alt-leader 4: Arabian (Abd al-Malik ibn Marwan)
    Alt-leader 5: Persian (Khosrow I).
     
  7. Zaarin

    Zaarin Diplomatic Attaché to Londo Mollari

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    I initially misinterpreted the closing parenthesis as reading Ramesses III, and I thought, "Interesting choice. He did defeat the Sea People and all, but considering he was murdered in the harem conspiracy..." :lol:
     
  8. untitledjuan

    untitledjuan Warlord

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    5 post-colonial civs

    I think it would be interesting if they realeased DLCs to include some of the previous leaders in previous games of some of the civilisations currently in the game. I would like to see Isabella of Castile, Louis XIV, Wu Zetian and obviously Maria Theresa back into the game
     
  9. Menocchio

    Menocchio Warlord

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    Daurama ruled a united Hausa, for one, and also is a much earlier figure, and I think it would be more interesting to represent an earlier West African ruler, especially a pre-Islamic and pre-Christian one. Being from the 9th century AD, I think that would make her the second-oldest African leader in the game, after Amanitore.

    Yaroslav promulgated his Russkaya Pravda while he was still Prince of Novgorod (approximately 1017, and he ascended to Kiev in 1019-ish), and also built his famous Court - one of the few, and oldest, surviving (however you can call it) examples of ancient Kievan secular architecture. This would make a nice leader background, I think. As for Nevsky, he is also good and as a more military-focused type of leader. Marfa Boretskaya is one of my more personal choices, as the princes I feel do not really reflect the individualness of the Novgorod Veche and, especially as Rurikids, are often just as tied to broader Kievan Rus' history and politics. Plus, Civilisation needs more angry Slavic grandmothers.
     
  10. AsH2

    AsH2 Prince

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  11. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    What are the chances of the Hittites returning, considering Hattusa as a city-state, is part of a Steam achievement?
    The same goes for Zanzibar, Jerusalem, Armagh, and Granada (though they were removed from Spain) off the top of my head.

    I agree that we do have more than enough, especially when you look at the difference between this game and Civ 5 by 7 playable civs.

    Though at the same time I'm not expecting 8 more. I'd expect if we get anymore than probably 4 would be the max.
    If we go off of civ 5 what's missing is:
    a 2nd Native tribe from North America (Shoshone or Iroquois/ something new)
    North African Civ (Morocco or be new like Berbers)
    Venice, or other Italian representation.

    For the last wildcard spot just add in another Sub-Saharan African civ or ancient civ like Assyria or Hittites. :)

    Not to mention the long requested Ancient Egyptian leader that's not Cleopatra.
     
  12. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    Adding a third regional/cultural ability (i think there’s a mod that does this, although it’s a bit rudimentary) would be very cool, as long as it’s done well and doesn’t do too much to blob or misrepresent the civs.

    Besides that Mesoamerican ability (which would let Aztecs get chinampas) and the Prasat/Theravada temple that both you and @Andrew Johnson [FXS] mentioned, an example I can think of might be a ‘Hellenic Legacy’ ability of Greece, Byzantium and Macedon (and maybe Rome too), or a ‘Heirs of Latin’ ability for France, Spain and Portugal to reflect their Romance language history.

    just an idea i thought of 20 seconds ago so prob a lot of flaws but might be interesting, especially if we get more deblobbing or regional overlap.

    A Salt-and-Gold trade shared ability might allow more differentiation between Ghana, Mali and Songhai so they could all exist in one game, for example

    Civ is notably terrible about how they represent Elizabeth’s personality (and Victoria’s for that matter)

    Elizabeth was easily angered, mercurial and historically very emotive...yet civ represents her as stoic and quiet.

    Victoria *was* stoic, yet in Civ 6 she’s the emotive and easily angered one.
     
  13. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    Well that's easily the look of every Holy Site, Theater Square, and Campus already. That goes for even the unique ones too, well at least the buildings in the two unique Campuses we have. :mischief:
     
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  14. Codeword Iroquois

    Codeword Iroquois Warlord

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    So... to join the wishlist party:
    Iroquois,
    Morocco,
    Kilwa/Oman,
    Italy,
    Tonga/Fiji/Samoa, probably militaristic,
    Haiti,
    Hittities,
    Assyria,
    Egyptian alt.
     
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  15. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    An HRE civ might obviate the need for civs like the Netherlands and stuff and give us more non-Europe space, so i’ll take it.

    There’s a lot of historically vertically civs (civs which are geographically on top of other civs but are impossible to function as the same civ AND don’t fill the same game niche that i can think of. For present civs, Kievan Rus and the USSR for Russia, the Franks for France (although they already gave us Gaul as a historically vertically civ, not to mention Macedon for Persia and Arabia for Egypt), HRE for Germany), the Mughals for the Maurya (currently lumped into India), etc.


    Im offended you didn’t mention me given my profligate civ ideas in the early times of this thread /jk

    i didn’t mean every ability should be a shared building, just that it could be

    Ho Chi Minh or Ngo Quyen, *please*

    Oh, and to jump on to the wishlist trend,

    Hittites, Mutapa, Chola, Mughals, Afghanistan, Ghaznavids, Timurids, Lan Xang, Swahili, Tlingit, Hausa/Oyó/Benin, Guarani, Muisca, Tonga, Hawaii, Madagascar, Philippines

    And for REALLY unlikely, how about Sami and Ainu

    (im well aware that’s more than 9 but that’s how eurocentric this game is lol)
     
    Last edited: Mar 23, 2021
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  16. Alexander's Hetaroi

    Alexander's Hetaroi Deity

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    I'm not sure a separate HRE civ would mean no Netherlands. Not sure if that solves the problem at all, considering we basically got a HRE civ in Germany along with the Dutch in Civ 6. I see that as a reason to possibly exclude Austria, and therefore might be a main reason why they chose Hungary instead for Civ 6.

    I can possibly see a separate Franks (Frankish) civ lead by Charlemagne, but alongside Germany, France and the Netherlands.

    That might alleviate the need for two "Celtic" civs in Civ 7 and we could just get Ireland as a middle ground to Gaul and Scotland.
    It was more or less a joke on how the Holy Site, Campus, and Theater Square already look very Greco-Roman and Western European
    in their design in the first place. ;)

    Wouldn't the Sami make the game more eurocentric? :p
     
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  17. ManoftheHour333

    ManoftheHour333 Warlord

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    For Civ VI, I don't think Scandinavia needs much more representation. They have 2 pretty solid entries in Sweden and Norway. And both, along with Russia would overlap pretty heavily onto any abilities Finland could bring. If they're going to add in another tundra civ, they should go with a Siberia civ or a NA civ.

    Tbh, as I've been saying, I don't think we really need more civs from Europe. The only one that I could see is some post-Roman Italian representation (That many of us have talked to death over XD). I think the last few regions of Europe could be covered with some clever leaders like Maria Theresa for Germany+Hungary to nab Austria. If there is going to be a second pass, I think that Europe should DEFINITELY get the "single civ" treatment like the Middle East and Africa got with the NFP.
     
  18. Thenewwwguy

    Thenewwwguy Emperor

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    better an interesting european civ then 10 versions of germanic peoples
     
  19. Duke William of Normandy

    Duke William of Normandy King of England & Unofficial Welcoming Committee

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    So, I looked at a map, and was able to find some spots in the world map that could be filled:

    North America, Mostly the Western and Central parts of it are empty.
    Latin America: Seems pretty full to me.
    South America: One more Civ from there and it's done.
    Europe: Ireland, the Balkans, and Eastern Europe, in general, have some Civs that could fill up those spots.
    Africa: Basically all of it except for the Civs that are from Africa.
    Middle East: One or two more Civs should work, like South America.
    Asia: Central Asia could use a Civilization, as well as one more SE Civ.
    Pacific: Really no need, but, if we really wanted, Samoa and Hawaii are two options.
     
  20. notNamed

    notNamed Warlord

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    Ho Chi Minh I agree with, the guy is such an important figure in Vietnamese history that he kind of pollutes everyone who came before him. Even Ba Trung in the game has a piece of Uncle Ho in her.
    Ngo Quiyen, though... why?
    I'd rather suggest folks like Lê Thánh Tông (LêTư Thành), who was the sort of enlightened ruler that most Civs get. Golden age of Le, first real conquest of Champa (driven by the need to get the warlords Le Loi brought in to stop murdering themselves and everyone around them), massive expansion of education and public service. He was almost a contemporary of Sejong the Great and the two had similarly successful careers. - Golden Age of Le
    Gia Long (Nguyễn Ánh) is another candidate. His family loses their control of Annam, he flees to Siam with the help of Catholic priests, helps the Siamese in their war against Burma, makes deals with Cambodians and eventually travels to Paris to seek assistance. He gets it, reconquers the country and sets up Nguyen dynasty. So he's got a long story behind him, he marks the first ruler of a unified Vietnam, he is the one who comes up with the name of Viet Nam, and he's also a moderniser of the country, giving them a Napoleonic-style army (he also agreed on trade relations with the French but since a certain Napoleon happened, that was lost), star fortresses and all that stuff. It's also a neat figure in terms of showing that just because you took in European ideas, tech and all that jazz, it doesn't suddenly make you Japan. - Moderniser
    Minh Manh (Nguyễn Đảm) is Gia Long's son and the guy who achieved the country's biggest territorial extent. Interesting figure in on himself, he's the one who pushed Sinicisation of all the various groups within what was now really "Vietnam", prosecution of Christianity included (a policy he had really good reason for, somewhat less purposefully continued by later emperors). - Golden Age of Nguyen
    The last choice is one of the Tran kings during their fight against the Mongol invasions, but I've already written about these before (and likewise mentioned why I'm fully against Le Loi). - Golden Age of Tran + Mongol feats

    Of the smaller ones (B-tier picks when you get bored of "the greats"), my personal pick would be Nguyễn Phúc Nguyên.
    Spoiler :
    The long and short of it is that his father and him established Annam as a fully separate country.
    You get interesting figures (Zhuge Liang of the South) this way.
    Highly multicultural population living together. Tonkin, meanwhile, was rigidly structured with Tai chiefs in the borderlands, Kinh in the Red River floodplain and their Trai rulers and soldiers from Thanh Hoa/Nghe An provinces along the Ca river and the mountains there.
    Expansion to the south at its full extent.
    Massive focus on trade both with Europe (part of the Portuguese trade network, first European accounts, Christianity, technically also the origin of the alphabetic system) and the rest of E.Asia (famously most Japanese Red Seal ships went there, getting around the ban on direct trade with Chinese.). Nguyen Nguyen even married his daughter off to a Japanese merchant and she's got a small festival there.
    He also built Sage's Wall to defend against further northern invasions. A pretty cool idea that created a coastal superfortress filled to the brim with cannons and successfully kept the Tonkinese at bay for centuries.
    Finally, he possibly operated in conjunction with the leftovers of Mac dynasty in the north, just to make extra sure Tonkin (okay, it's still Trai warlords we're talking about here) would never get a chance to build up strength and somehow get through.

    An interesting period and very interesting people, but it's one of Annam and not Vietnam. Think Dutch vis-a-vis Germans (except in Vietnamese history, the Dutch eventually conquered Germany and built an ethnostate on top of that).
     
    Last edited: Mar 24, 2021

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