Civilization VII Dev Diary #7: Legends & Mementos

[RockTheCazbah87]

Going through the leader lists of Civ 4-6, it could be:
Jadwiga
Javayarman
Joao
John Curtin
Julius Caesar
Justinian
Kamehameha
Kristina
Kublai Khan
Kupe
Lady Six Sky

Of these, only John Curtin and Kamehameha could be described as Modern in any way. I don't think it is going to be John Curtain, so either Kamehameha or someone completely new.

Riots en masse on the streets of Stockholm when Kristina is confirmed again

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

I love the meta-progression in Age of Wonders 4, and really hope that Mementos are a huge hit that Firaxis decides to double down on in future patches, dlc, and expansions.

The more rewards (both cosmetic and mechanical) for playing (especially for completing different objectives and getting out of the rut of always playing the same strategy) the better

 

[pokiehl]

I think this is pretty cool, and I think helping to “make losing fun” is a compelling reason to have this sort of system available.

 

[stealth_nsk]

I love the meta-progression in Age of Wonders 4, and really hope that Mementos are a huge hit that Firaxis decides to double down on in future patches, dlc, and expansions.

The more rewards (both cosmetic and mechanical) for playing (especially for completing different objectives and getting out of the rut of always playing the same strategy) the better

Those things clearly affect the game balance. AoW being originally Paradox game, doesn't care about such things, but Civilization usually does.

 

[Venceslau Pietro Pietra]

Off the top of my head, names of potential Leaders alphabetically between Isabella & Lafayette:

Jacob Grimm
James I
James Madison
Jan Hus
Jaqueline Kennedy
John Calvin
John F. Kennedy
Josephus
Judas Maccabaeus
Julian the Apostate

More to come…

José de San Martin

 

[j51]

Kangxi?

 

[Gori the Grey]

Jhandi? The nuke-happy evil twin of Ghandi.

 

[FXS_Sar]

Do I see this correctly that you don't need to level up both personas on a leader? There's only one Ashoka in the screen with the leader paths.

Personas do have their own Legend Path and unique Mementos!

 

[Leucarum]

Hmm... I'm glad this is optional. Especially for multiplayer. I'd prefer that to be all players having an even starting point, every game. Beyond that, I suppose giving players more freedom in single player is unambiguously good?

 

[Trav'ling Canuck]

In order to grow and expand their player bases, game series need to try new things to appeal to new players. On that front, I see Mementos and Legends as a good effort by Firaxis.

In order to grow and expand their player bases, game series also need to leave old players behind. I've been mostly positive on the Civ 7 changes announced by Firaxis, pending confirmation of how the changes play out. But Legends and Mementos confirms my suspicions that Firaxis is designing Civ 7 for players who enjoy a very different type of game than I do. I'll still read this forum and watch reviews, in case I'm wrong, but I'm starting to see more clearly who this game is designed for, and its not me. And I'm okay with that. Firaxis should do what they need to do to attract a younger and larger gaming audience.

 

[Gori the Grey]

System itself isn't for me. Every game of civ is in an entirely separate universe with no connection to any other.

 

[Sagax]

Those things clearly affect the game balance. AoW being originally Paradox game, doesn't care about such things, but Civilization usually does.

At the same time, this is offered on a purely opt-in basis - every player can choose for themselves whether they want to interact with this system or not. General balance discussions will most likely be based on no-memento runs, or the community will expect the use of mementos to be specifically disclosed when applicable.

Personally, I’m completely neutral on these. It’s a few completely optional perks to pick up, and functionally I see them as a tamer version of official Civ 6 modes. Not something I’ll engage with during initial playthroughs, but a couple of years down the line may keep me entertained while waiting for Civ 8.

 

[TheSpaceCowboy]

Those things clearly affect the game balance. AoW being originally Paradox game, doesn't care about such things, but Civilization usually does.

I hate game balance; it limits asymmetry, which is useful to replayability. I understand that it appeals to those that play multiplayer, but balance does nothing to improve gameplay in single player, which is what I personally care about.

I’d even love it if - as in Crusader Kings 3 - part of the difficulty came down to which nation and leader you choose. Playing as Rome could give so many extra bonuses as to be easy mode, whereas you’d really have to be a Deity level player to win with a civ like Aksum.

 

[CivKirk64]

This looks very fun and rewarding.
I don't see this how this can be ascribed as added gamification, nothing expires, no "Daily Tasks" There won't be notifications popping up pleading to continue.

Just getting some cool extras for doing what we are already doing.. playing 6-150 hundred hours of Civ.
The bonuses don't seem too powerful and can spice things up after you've already used everyone a few times.

 

[8housesofelixir]

Unlocked at level 2 of the Foundation Path, the Complaint to Ea-nāṣir provides a straightforward +1 Economic Attribute point for you to spend right at game start.

COMPLAINT TO EA-NASIR

Alright, seeing this item alone is enough for me to try the legacy system, even if just for the meme. Because it is a good meme.

 

[civfanatic4sure]

My initial reaction was complete dislike because I want the game to be as challenging as possible. However, thinking about the broader player base, I actually think this is a fantastic way to let people skill up to higher difficulty levels. For all the reddit posts over the years like "how does anyone win on deity?" maybe someone just can't get over the line on the next difficulty level, but they unlocked some mementos along the way that give them enough of a boost to do it. Then they can try it out without mementos, etc.. So long as this is optional, and we can choose to never use them if we wish, I think this is a great addition.

 

[Mr Jon of Cheam]

I hate game balance; it limits asymmetry, which is useful to replayability. I understand that it appeals to those that play multiplayer, but balance does nothing to improve gameplay in single player, which is what I personally care about.

I’d even love it if - as in Crusader Kings 3 - part of the difficulty came down to which nation and leader you choose. Playing as Rome could give so many extra bonuses as to be easy mode, whereas you’d really have to be a Deity level player to win with a civ like Aksum.

I wouldn't say I hate balance but yeh, I agree it's overrated. It's mostly important for multiplayer but if there is a good MP scene, balance can be found with tier lists and the like, no need for the design team to tie themselves up in knots trying to balance everything at the expense of creativity.

 

[SupremacyKing2]

This feels like steam achievements just more integrated into the game, where now the achievements you get actually affect the game.

 

[chaosprophet]

The system looks a lot more interesting than I thought. Specially I'm more interested in the tracking of things I did than the mementos itself, but being a builder player who cares more about building things I like instead of going for, I can imagine some mementos may really be helpful in doing what I want and so I would equip them.

Just to clarify why I don't like it. I had my share of working on app gamification, where you encourage users to interact with your app by using some simple psychological tricks. You know, the things like the famous green owl (I'm happy I didn't work on that).

Now, what I see here is the gamification of a game. Civilization, the most addictive video game ever requires gamification tricks to pull players into playing it? Come on!

From what it looks like, it seems as things you get for playing the game as one would usually (like building a civ associated wonder) more than things hard to obtain or that you need to go out of your way, also with not timed limitations that would cause FOMO. And while the game is addictive for us, for many it isn't as much which seems why they trying this system as another incentive. And it being completely optional means that it adds nothing negative for those who don't care or dislike it. They can be deactivated on multiplayer, and while it can make some single player games easier than from people who doesn't use it, it doesn't affect other players in any way.

In reality, I would have almost preferred that this Legends system also have momento that give penalties. To have fun playing more difficult games according to certain specific conditions.

While I personally is very unlikely to use any, I can see they adding some in the future for those who want. Could create some interesting online challenges where you need to win a game in x difficulty with x leader and civs while using specific negative mementos, et

 

[Isengardtom]

I don’t have any strong feelings towards this one way or another.

Is it optional for single player too? I didn’t read that anywhere