Civilization VIII, later or other project.

One downside of my idea is that a collapse would sparse your population through the map : it could be advantageous in terms of exploration, but it would be a nightmare to reunite all your people in cities if you want to do so. Or maybe it could be sort of automatic ?

There's also a problem with likeliness to collapse versus the currency that prevents a collapse : should you have 0% chance per turn if enough, or still say 1% per turn no matter what ? Obviously, I would like the second, to make it a feature that you don't forget if playing good (a la loyalty system), but it might unplease some players, not to mention with the micromanagement nightmare stated above.

Last, I would like each population unit to have a promotion tree, thing is : it could be a micromanagement nightmare too, especially during a collapse when you have to find who is where, and where you want to send it. Unless each specialization would change the unit looking, and the icon too, like hunters being in brown (bow or pike), soldiers in red, administrators in white, etc., unless each specific promotion tree has its own icon, because you know, colors are already taken by the civ belonging.
 
Here is what could be a "boss" promotion, for players who want play as barbarians early on :

"One Man Army" (just sounds cool, obviously a pop unit is not only one man) :

1. +15 attack + defense melee (+ defensive ranged ?) strenght towards other humans. (units ?)
2. +15 attack + defense melee (+ defensive ranged ?) strenght towards other humans. (units ?)
3. +15 attack + defense melee (+ defensive ranged ?) strenght towards other humans. (units ?)
4. +15 attack + defense melee (+ defensive ranged ?) strenght towards other humans. (units ?)

Note that if any hunter-gatherer promotion is taken, it will be canceled if you pick up up to at least two promotions in another promotion tree. (or past 2, it is to say 3)

The best way to defend against a level 4 professional army would be ranged units.

Note that this "boss army" would only be one unit, and that nothing would prevent you to stack additionnal units (up to 3 or 5 in Antiquity) to it, like archers.

Please note again that these perks would not necessarily be available since the start of the game : they could make each for another more advanced type of unit (the icon changing), with tech progress. Therefore, the numbers are open to change.

Another idea of promotion tree :

Administrator :

1. +2 Coercion points if placed in a government plaza or in the palace (5 slots).
2. +3 Coercion points if placed in a government plaza or in the palace.
3. +4 Coercion points if placed in a government plaza or in the palace.
4. +5 Coercion points if placed in a government plaza or in the palace.

For all this : +x points towards Great Administrators generation ?

Clerics :

1. +2 faith if placed in a holy site, monastery of in the palace.
2. Etc.

Plus x points towards great prophet generation ?

Any other idea of promotion tree population units could adopt ?
 
[EDIT 2]Obviously, those ideas are freely, partially or extensively usable by Firaxis by the present declaration with nothing else to do than just use them[/EDIT 2]

[EDIT]I have had the confirmation this is an impossible mod for Civ6, so let's say instead it's for Civ[EDIT 3]8[/EDIT 3]/x or a new project[/EDIT]

Here is the format all civs would tie in :

Population sparsed on the map : no more cities by default, here every pop point is more or less independant and can be fixed anywhere on the map, although you can form up to 5 pop points stacks in Antiquity. (more with buildings)

1. How do we earn new pop points ?

Population grows with excedent food, representing favourable conditions in order to maintain a bigger tribe. However, while your first excedent food goes to your first pop point, creating a pool that will reinitiate after a while and increase your population (provided you work a tile with 3 food or more (each pop point costs 2 food)), you couldn't go beyond size 2 and producing things in the same time, (you don't have a city center that gives you free food) unless you find very favourable spots. [Actually no, you could still grow and produce at size 2, for example by working a 3 food farm and a 2 food+1 production plain.]By the way, your population will be limited even with very good spots, which you could however look for in order to play a tribe rather than a civ, for a while or after a collapse.

2. If there is first no city, to which pop point goes the excedent food ?

The excedent food goes first to the pop producing the excedent, making another pop point popping near or on top of it after a while if you get actual excedent. When you have multiple pop points, the excedent goes to whatever pop point produces less than 2 food first, in a range of three tiles in Antiquity. Then, it goes to the nearest pop point in a range of three tiles in Antiquity, beginning by itself (stacking or popping near if maximum stack and no other pop point three tiles away).

3. What if [forgot]

4. Here is how pop points allocation works :

Pop points usually produce things working the land, like food, production, gold or other things. (culture ? Tourism ? Faith ? Science ?)

Each tile has a capacity of working pop of 3. It is to say, you can put 5 pop points in a single tile in Antiquity, but you can make the land worked in that single tile only by 3. The 2 left could work other places or build things.

The 2 left could be instantaneously dispatched in lands around 3 tiles away, provided there is more than 1 pop point in that tile. Indeed, you can dispatch pop point around 3 tiles away a given center as long as they are at least 2, like in a city center. Note : you cannot merge pop points the same way, to avoid an "infinite jump travel" exploit.

So, a tile can be worked 3 times at the same time. It can be 3 times of food, or 2 times of food and a time of gold, or 1 time of food, 1 time of production and 1 time of gold for example. But it can be also 3 times of production, or 3 times of gold, provided the tile has the resources for that. (3 levels of abundance for special resources) [No, stop me here. This is bullsh*t. The output system works as always, with for example 2food 1prod, but multiplicated by the number of pop points up to 3 in the same tile]

5. Further developments.

* Like this, you can control population but out of a state, it is to say barbarians or tribes. Indeed, first you have no state, you have to discover Agriculture AND find some cereals.
* You can sell (rent ?) pop points (military units ?) for a good lump of gold to other civizations, tribes or barbarians, although the two last might not do / be able to do it. (lack of gold/need)
* States formed little by little even before Antiquity, and by jolts, meaning they formed & collapsed for many reasons. Those reasons were apparently hard to identify, understand and prevent, but occasionnally people ruling learned to play with them. That's why I propose the introduction of a new currency : Coercion points.
Coercion points will represent a challenge, or more precisely an "effort", for or from the player in order to maintain his state, or a collapse will happen. Because this way, the player would have the choice to make this effort (like allocating pop point(s) to them, losing other opportunities early), in order to play a state, or give it up in order to play a tribe, barbarians, hunters-gatherers or pastoralists. It's kind of an encouragement to play differently, or an incentive more exactly, because not all players are attracted by easyness, which by the way would be all relative as it may not be that obvious how to play barbarians first for example. Not sure as of now if you need Coercion points in order to create a state on top of agriculture and cereals, but you need it for sure to maintain one. As I see it, it would work like era points in civ6 GS, with maybe "eras" way shorter. (the first "era" would occur on turn 10 after you create a state for example) We could make so a certain number of Coercion points are needed each turns and that's all, but it would be very tricky especially if this number changes from a turn to another. Could be interresting though. Please keep in mind that a collapse is not the end of times, and may even be wanted by the player in some circumstances.
* Collapses are represented by the loss of solidness of your frontiers, the burst of your population in many directions, some loss of population, your cities abandonned (that can be re-inhabited later, depending on your plans and the environment or possible new opportunities), etc. and many much more. Here is the basic idea to make the duality barbarians/states work : as a state, you can make a lot of gold and buy slaves to barbarians, hunter-gatherers, tribes and other pastoralists. You can also generate a lot of science. As a barbarians, you are more flexible but can still steal technologies by pillaging science districts, steal dogmas by pillaging theater squares, gold with market places on top of selling population out of your slaves farms for a very good price (states have plenty gold) or hire your soldiers for gold too. Meanwhile, you can explore more efficiently, more rapidly, secure territory of all kinds, until the times all Earth is filled with states and there is no room for barbarians left.
* Etc. etc.

Note : "5. Further developments" is just a vague and possible consequence of the system I tried to figure above. I'm conscious there's many more to add, especially regarding balance and other consequences like micromanaging or even about the system itself, what it can allow. Feel free to discuss and add / substract anything you see fit. Thank you !

Can you elaborate on point one? I am having trouble understanding it.
 
Can you elaborate on point one? I am having trouble understanding it.

In all Civs up to date (I believe), there's a pool of food you have to fill in order to gain one extra population point (i.e. "citizens"). This is obtained through food surplus you get each turn. Considering each pop costs 2 food each. So if you work a farm with 3 food and a farm with 2 food and 1 production, you have 5 food minus 4 food from the citizens, it is to say a surplus of 1. If you keep things like this, 1 food per turn will go into your food pool. If your food pool is of 10, it might take 10 turns to grow. Thing is that in Civ, generally, the more population there is in a city, the bigger become the food pool, so more time is needed to grow for the same amount of food surplus. Happily enough, your new citizens could work food tiles, and in the case of this idea, ideally more than 3 food tiles. I initially thought that the food pool would not increase after growth in this idea though, as there is not bonus "city center" yields.

EDIT : Additionally, I thought that each population point would have its own food pool IIRC.
 
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So... let's elaborate a little bit on collapses. Without concrete advantages on them, one could easily guess that the players would complain in forums because they had to restart due to an unwanted collapse. If I cannot find enough advantages to collapses, then I will have to admit that there is 0 chance of collapsing if the Coercion points needed are reached. (even though there is never 0 chance of that happening in reality, even if very not probable, if only due to the world's nowadays culture about the very strong concept of "nations")

First, let's say that at the beginning of the game, there would be no way to reach the correct amount of Coercion points in order to maintain a state for sure. No. Instead, your state may collapse (or most probably will due to you willingly generating 0 Coercion points) thus lowering the number of Coercion points needed, or upping your base Coercion points, representing the lessons the rulers get from a collapse. So, the more you collapse, the less likely you are to collapse later. To avoid exploits, you can collapse at maximum every 10 turns, or as soon as you are able to try to form a new state which could be around the same amount [of] turns or maybe higher, well I guess depending on your situation and the RNG. In any case, you can't try to form a new state before 10 turns after your last collapse. That, is already a strong reason to want collapses early, if you choose the way of the "civilization". (as opposed to barbarians/peaceful hunter-gatherers - the myth of the "good savages"/nomads/tribes/pastoralists etc. life mode(s?))

So, what does feature a collapse exactly ? As said, a burst of your frontiers : they do change dramatically and pretty much randomly, leaving you with a set of areas that are still "yours" but that anyone can pass through. (borders in dotted lines) They represent your living space as back to nomads/hunter-gatherers/etc. Your ancient cities are not destroyed though - well, not entirely -, they decay through time and turns, the buildings inside being slowly damaged at various degrees until your re-integrate them (if you want). Your population, formerly concentrated in cities, get spread out on the map, near your old borders, a bit further or even partially superimposed with your old borders. You randomly lose some population, but you can gain some too, by alliances to other peoples in the wild. (especially if they were the same "culture" than you - culture is an influence that can get far from your borders, mostly depending on land porosity and infrastructure (a road leading "nowhere" can have its use - well, there would nearly be no "nowhere" as I see the land fully populated from the start, my theory being that agriculture and cities were needed to solve the problems and frictions between tribes - maybe one characteristic of each tile would be a number of population, either realistic, like 53, or by pop points, like 1, 2 or 3 - that could happen ingame before the eyes of the player provided it has vision, and maybe also out of the player's view)) You could even end up all around a near state to enter in symbiosis with it - skirmishes (pillaging), goods trades, people trades, and whatnot.

I'm thinking that Coercion points could be needed to maintain tribes also. Like you have a chief and customs, those two would worth 1 Coercion point each and you would need 2 in order to maintain your tribe. Ideally obviously, you would still be up to see rebellions, either by chance-even-if-the-cap-is-reached, either by having another chief pretender coming to life, nullifying your chief Cp, and maybe plotting in order to question your customs. Then, if the pretender achieves to surpass your authority and change customs in another region you "possess", there could be a split. Note that a split could happen within a state too. (religious for example) Here, "customs" could be materialized by something like civics cards of Civ6, except that they would tell completely the way you want to play thus having a very important impact on your gameplay ! Maybe collapses would be called Crises for tribes other than states though.

Maybe Coersion points would be affected by happiness and golden ages too. At the difference of Civ5, happiness would continue to "feed" golden age eras even during a golden age, so there could be a virtuous circle with a never ending golden age, I'm thinking about pastoralists here, or great length life empires like the Roman Empire or China, although technically they have been submitted to collapses multiple times, but kept the same face in front of History more or less. It's just a matter of naming and role play here : you could start to hear rumors like "Chinese are starting to name you (Romans) Aztecs" and you could invest some resources to reverse it back, or do something that will stop it.

So, what would be the advantages to play as a tribe ? You could end up with no war/peace status with other tribes/states, so that there wouldn't be a formal war but you could attack them anyway, and at the very same time make trade with them. That could be... powerful, especially if you consider that you can steal a tech or civic (like Discipline : better combat strength) by pillaging some state districts, and at the same time sell rare items or even slaves for a good lump of gold. You could reach unreachable lands in no time in case of a collapse, and discover new resources and sell them. You could raise "hordes", it is to say a lot of population points with maybe the affiliated horse power : maybe that for each (horse) pasture you create, a new pop point pops up ?

I'll stop it right now as I have to digest all this, and count on you folks to feed this interesting (IMO) topic with your own ideas of dreams. (especially how should this or that play and what advantages it would give)
 
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