Civilizations popping up mid game?

[arghpirates01]

Hello there this is my first post at this forum, but I have read a lot here especially the guides. (by the way thanks to all those who made those you have definitely improved my game and it has made playing much more fun).


This may sound like a stupid question but I am playing a game at the moment where I swear I put only 7 AI players on and then me.

But some time around the industrial/modern era (I really can't remember) Napolean pops up and says nice to meet you.

Normally this wouldn't be weird because I met people late in the game before. But The problem is that the island he is on I have had a city on for some time now. And it shows him as being right next to me. Which I could of sworn was a different color the last time I looked at the cities around me.

Its like he just declared independence or something.


Does anyone know what this is? is it a random seed or something? If he didn't just pop up then why would it just now be meeting him? Because I saw that my borders were surrounded by other civs before all of this happend?

 

[sabo]

Well I know new civs can pop up if some civ colonizing another continent, other than that I don't think it's possible.
Are these new civs vassals of some other civ?


Welcome to CFC

 

[arghpirates01]

hmmm I'll have to check on that one I didn't pay attention.


So if one civ colonizes a continent the cities that they have their can change into a whole new civ?

if so that is pretty awesome

 

[mechaerik]

The civ which previously owned them grants them self-rule, but they are vassals of the first civ.

You can do it to, by having 3 (or was it 2?) cities on another continent from your palace, and choosing to "Grant them independence" in the Domestic Advisor screen.

 

[arghpirates01]

!!!! what!!!!

I had no idea you could do that. Thanks a lot I must have been completely oblivious to this fact.

(probablly so I just bought civ 4 again with the BTW expansion so I didn't really read up on much).



Oh by the way thanks for the welcome and the help

 

[mechaerik]

Well, the AI tends to do it a lot. I rarely do, because I don't usually see a point. They are better as part of my empire. Some players really like doing it, but I prefer switching to State Property, comrade.

 

[arghpirates01]

Yeah I love State Property and I don't think I would ever do it as well. But its the idea of bringing in a new civilization mid game that adds something for me. Maybe just a new rival or something I don't know its just cool.


Lol but I for one will never give independence to them I keep a tight fist on my empire

 

[rollo1066]

When able (two citys on another continent) I ususally grant independence just to see what leader appears. It's often a good idea because the new civ is a vassel and will provide you with any needed resources but you no longer have the colony maintenance costs.

 

[Baldyr]

Some mods spawn new Civs in mid-game, like Rhye's and Fall of Civilization (historical starting dates) or Legends of Revolution (barbarian cities become new Civs). Personally I think it adds a lot to a game of Civilization!

 

[killmeplease]

i like making colonies so you have not to bother with micromanagement of those ctites.

 

[LegionSteve]

i like making colonies so you have not to bother with micromanagement of those ctites.

Exactly. Say you have a horrible little island with room for 2 - 3 cities and mostly tundra, but it has an important resource like Oil. You can put a few cities there and liberate them. Then trade or demand the oil from your new vassal (because they are your vassal it will never be redded out in the trade screen). You get the oil without the hassle of managing those cities.

 

[Mustakrakish]

Just remembered something I wanted to ask long ago... Whenever I give independence to some part of my empire, half of the world declares war on me... including some of my other vassals. Is that normal? and WHY???

 

[Silu]

Just remembered something I wanted to ask long ago... Whenever I give independence to some part of my empire, half of the world declares war on me... including some of my other vassals. Is that normal? and WHY???

AI Attitudes towards you are averaged over yourself and your vassals. So if you had nice Friendly allies before, after you make a colony and they're only Cautious with them, suddenly they start hungrily eyeing you even though the UI still makes you believe they are Friendly.

This is probably the worst thing about making colonies, even worse than the fact that they would have been better off as a part of your empire

 

[kochman]

Agreed... don't grant independence. It can help in the space race, I suppose, as they can help you research some things (if they have a good infrastructure), but as for the other victory methods it hurts you (except cultural, which it is basically neutral in either case since really only 3 cities matter).

 

[Willem]

AI Attitudes towards you are averaged over yourself and your vassals. So if you had nice Friendly allies before, after you make a colony and they're only Cautious with them, suddenly they start hungrily eyeing you even though the UI still makes you believe they are Friendly.

Also, make sure that you have your game patched. There was a bug before that sometimes created a new civ from one that had been eliminated through a war previously. As soon as they were created, their old hostilities with other civs would instantly resurface.

 

[Silu]

I could also note the best use for colonies. If you end up in a situation where you would instantly win with diplo (either AP or UN, usually AP), but you have over 75% of the votes so the option never comes up, you can spawn a colony to get under the vote cap while having a vassal that will definitely give those votes for you.

 

[zyphyr]

Just remembered something I wanted to ask long ago... Whenever I give independence to some part of my empire, half of the world declares war on me... including some of my other vassals. Is that normal? and WHY???

In addition to the already mention relationship averaging, in the earlier releases there was a bug where relationship values were not properly reset when a colony was created.

This caused a problem when a civ had already been destroyed and then a new civ showed up - it would inherit the relationships of the dead civ. That dead civ was probably at war with someone when it died, so the new one would immediately be at war with whoever.... and that would automatically drag the master into the war(s).

 

[Mustakrakish]

Thanks guys That pretty much explains everything I wondered.

Also, make sure that you have your game patched. There was a bug before that sometimes created a new civ from one that had been eliminated through a war previously. As soon as they were created, their old hostilities with other civs would instantly resurface.

Can't believe I forgot to ask that first time I posted at this forum