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Civilized Barbarians?

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by JesusOnEez, Apr 18, 2006.

  1. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Shows how much I know...

    I was totally unaware that barbs could do the following.

    I was playing a small terra map, where all the AI was on one continent along with myself. By about 1600, I'd wiped all but one civ out, and decided to explore a big, black area in the west and found another continent populated by a huge barb city with refined cultural borders. Upon closer inspection with an Explorer (before he got killed by Rifles...I hadn't even got Rifles yet), they'd built the Pyramids and at least one other world wonder.

    This is probably not news to anyone, to it suprised me big time.

    I've got a screenshot of it if anyone wants a look.

    Meh.
     
  2. Elmstr

    Elmstr Warlord

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    they could have taken the city from an other civ
     
  3. Olleus

    Olleus Deity

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    Not on terra.

    I have heard about this quite a lot, although the wonder that the barbs build is usualy the collosus. This is because the barbs have a chance of discoering a tech every turn, and the cost of that tech is not taken into consideration, therefore the expensive metal casting tech is usualy avaiable early on to the barbs.
     
  4. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Nope, I don't think so. The New World was a large continent (for the map size), and all AI Civs started on my continent. This barb city had been established for some considerable time due to the cultural borders. Nobody had established off continent cities before I wiped them out.
     
  5. boneys26

    boneys26 BTS Play session tester

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    some games I've watched barb's closely with a spy and not only can they take cities but they oftern build there own to start with they build buildings/units and research technologies. I had no idea they could do this in civ4 as past civi game they have just taken cities from us they even make improvements ie: farms and the like :eek:
     
  6. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    Barbarians can change units (to anything) during turns, build wonders, found holy cities.
     
  7. JesusOnEez

    JesusOnEez Emperor

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    Change units to anything? Huh?

    How handy would that be? Your just about to take a slapping from a bunch of cavalry and change all your old Archery units to Pikes for free.

    Glad the Barbs don't do that when you're on top of them...just about to slap a Barb Warrior with an Axe and the git turns into Infantry. Imagine that...
     
  8. Meffy

    Meffy humanoid skunk

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    I'd like an option to see barbarians on the various graphs comparing civs over time. Now the SDK's out it should be possible to do that... assuming barbs can be assessed by the same numbers given that they're not quite the same as other civs... Hmm.
     
  9. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    Yeah, they surpised me the other day..was assaulting a barb city and ended up with just one swordsman...but he was city raider lvl 3 and the one archer left was down to 0.3 so it was taken next turn.

    However, I then watched the city go from size 3 to size 2 and another archer appear...only possible explaination ..they slavery pop rush it...annoying little so and so's..they can use civics now can they ..or have I missed something obvious?

    p.s. btw the city went from 3 to 2 on the AIs' turn, so it wasn't as a result of any combat (even though combat doesnt cause cities to shrink normally I'm clutching at straws for a more rational cause, cos if they can use civics, then theyre not barbarians anymore , since civics ipso facto implies civilization)
     
  10. Meffy

    Meffy humanoid skunk

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    I disagree -- in real life there are civilized barbarians. A people get to decide whether they'll call themselves civilized. A people's enemies get to decide whether they'll call them barbarians.

    ... or some such snappy aphorism. ;-)
     
  11. DrewBledsoe

    DrewBledsoe Veteran QB

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    Very true, but by the above definition , a normal game starts with me , 11 barbarian "nations" and some other barbarians :)

    As you can tell, im pretty xenophobic in CIV games :)
     
  12. Meffy

    Meffy humanoid skunk

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    Hmm. Yeah, that sounds about right...
     
  13. royfurr

    royfurr "Klotzen, nicht Kleckern"

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    If I recall correctly, the word Barbarian is from the Greek, and originally meant simply an "outsider", i.e. a non-Greek, or a foreigner. By this meaning, the ancient Egyptian pharaoh's as well as the peoples of the Fertile Crescent, and the East, were "barbarians". The only negative aspect (beyond the "obvious" that non-Greeks were inferior to Greeks) was that "barbarians" spoke less clearly ("bar-bar-bar-bar") or more harshly, to the ear of Greeks.

    There was not a negative, non-civilized conitation to the word. Of course today, that meaning has evovled to the more current one that barbarians are less civilized.

    For an interesting little discussion with this as a minor part, see:
    http://www.doyletics.com/arj/achilles.htm
     
  14. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    I should add to my post that barbarians can change to anything up to whatever unit the game allows. No future barbarian units such as nukes will occur and they can even change into inferior units, but the world builder will help you find that happen in the fog.
     
  15. Older than Dirt

    Older than Dirt King

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    You can tell wheter it is an original barbarian city by its name or if by another civ by the name also.
     
  16. supersoulty

    supersoulty Chieftain

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    I have always seen the barbs as being more like little countries than barbarians in the truest sense. At the very least, they are comparable to what the North American Indians were like when Europeans began to settle.

    I would like to see an option where you could have some sort of limited negotiation with them, though. Say, be able to buy them off when one of your cities is about to fall, or even a possible temporary alliance against another civ.
     
  17. Blazer6

    Blazer6 King

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    Considering that you can talk to civs who are at war with you and can still be negotiated with, barbarians need more influence on the world than random spawning.
     

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