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civIV Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (RFRE)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by primordial stew, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    ============ Quick Overview + FAQ Section ==========================
    Here is the download link, overview, and instructions:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=15177

    Here is a screenshot: need to do this..

    Rise and Fall of the Roman empire is a historical mod from the point of view of the Romans. It is for Warlords.


    FAQ:
    Q. What is a historical mod?

    It does a reasonable job following history. Yay, it's educational :)

    Q. What is special about RFRE?
    1. non semper erit aestas (it will not always be summer)
    Most significant historical events are represented in game. From Hannibal invading Italia, to Illyrian auxiliaries revolting, and even splitting the WRE and ERE late in the 4th century. The AI even has some events, such as the mercenary uprising following the end of the Punic Wars. Significant plagues (eg Plague of Cyprian, boubonic plague, Antonine Plague) will ravage the plebs. Petra will be buried in an earthquake, and the Jews will repeatedly revolt. King Attalus will bequeath his kingdom. Sertorius will revolt, Queen Zenobia will secede, the Gallic Empire will secede, Spartacus will rise up, and Armenia will be the 1st state to adopt Christianity. Goths will invade, Pictii will invade, Cimbri will invade, Moors will invade, Saxons will invade, Vandals and Huns will tear across your empire...
    2. Details such as army composition http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_military_structure. The Romans fielded very few foot or horse archers, so it is in the game. Pre-Marius legions were composed only of citizens, so for a city to be able to build a legion it must have civitas (citizenship). Civitas is achieved either through grant (such as to end the Social War), or through sufficient accumulation of Roman culture. Another detail on legions is that since the early legions were only part time soldiers, they have low XP gains. Later legions were professionals so can gain XP faster. Legions cost more upkeep than auxillaries do.
    3. Reasonably historic scenarios. As far as documentation is available, and translating into game terms can be done.
    4. Pirates are a problem.
    5. Religion is represented. Judaism is present throughout the game in some cities, but most of the pagan religions will be abandoned when Christianity is adopted.
    6. The famous Roman road network (http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads) can be built. Legions are expensive to maintain, but if there are idle periods you might as well put them to work!
    7. Significant Roman generals are represented by promotions which have a fixed lifetime. No more seeing Scipio in 50BC! Scipio is different than the others in that he must be "forged in battle". Only if Hannibal reaches the south of Italia will he become the man he finally was.
    8. Roman leaderheads change during the game. While Hadrian is in charge it is a good time to build wonders. While Augustus is in charge it is good to build the military.
    9. Regional recruiting (including Barbarian Civ units)
    10. Alliances with barbarians (Alans, Goths, Franks, Burgundians..). de duobus malis, minus est semper eligendum (of two evils, the lesser is always to be chosen
    11. Select national units. You won't see a Carthaginian army composed solely of elephants. Similarly, Praetorians can only make up a small fraction of the field army. The Romans considered the units raised in Illyria to be their best infantry (there is a special promotion available in Illyrian cities).
    12. The concept of a field army. There are many static garrison units available. They keep the peace, and defend the city, but that is all. They are cheap to maintain.
    13. Hero unit strategy. Only hero units (eg Consular armies, Mithradites, Hannibal, etc..) get medic promotions. This represents their recruiting ability rather than inherent medical capability. So there is a choice sometimes of using the powerful hero to attack and possibly lose them, or to keep them safe to quickly rebuild a damaged army. Additionally, Rome can always field 2 Consular Legions. Do you keep them together for max capability, or spread them apart as was typically done?
    14. Roman unit names are either historical (eg Legio XII Fulminata, Equites Scutarii Aureliaci, Cohors V Delmatarum c.R.), or historical sounding. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_legions
    15. Proscription is available twice if you run low on gold http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Proscription
    16. Enslaving similar to civIII.


    Q. Please explain research!

    There are 2 tracks, the "timer" track, and the Roman's track. All civs are given the timer techs (via python) every 25 turns. While the AI is doing research, the cost is too high for them to actually discover the tech in this way.

    The Roman track you have some influence over, but for the most part your future is fixed. It's best you move with the time line!

    Q. Please explain the Social War.
    In 91BC many of the Italian cities revolted against Roma.

    In game terms, to bring the cities back under control 3 things need to happen (in no particular order):
    1. research the Agrarian (land) Reforms tech, this is available immediately after the revolt
    2. build Lex Agraria in Roma
    3. capture 2 Italian cities

    Upon completing these 3 tasks the Italians will once again be part of the Empire.


    Q. Please explain the Roman army

    The Romans relied on heavy infantry (legions) for too long. Early on they did great, but against opponent using large amounts of cavalry, like the Persians, it almost always turned out bad for the Romans.

    Legions were always composed of citizens. A city must have "civitas" (see explanation in the pedia) in order to build a legion, otherwise they can only build auxiliaries. In 8BC the Roman army consisted of 28 legion and 28 auxiliary regiments. The proportion of auxiliaries would grow over time.

    It wasn't until maybe the 3rd century when the Romans finally fielded independent cavalry units. Until then the units were a mix. For example a legion was ~5000 heavy infantry, and 200 horses. In some of the auxiliaries the ratio was better (2:1), however the units were smaller (500-1000 soldiers). In game terms auxiliaries are cheaper to maintain (no extra cost), however they are not as powerful (again, the smaller size of the unit).

    Auxiliaries will account for much of your army. Recruiting is done locally, so conquered lands usually bring new troop options.

    Q. Please explain how great Roman generals such as Caesar, and Scipio are represented.

    Scipio, Caesar, Trajan, and Belisarius are special promotions to the Consular armies. Please see Mods\RFRE\releaseNotes.txt for specifics.


    Q. What is with all these pirate ships?

    Pirates were quite active until Pompey cleared them out, but they increased again following the 2nd century as order decayed.

    In game terms the number of pirates spawned will depend on how many of the pirate creating civs have been wiped out (eg Illyria, Piratea).


    Q. When is the BtS port coming?

    Never!

    The focus is different, but check out:
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=342350 Imperium Romanum
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=352646 Pie's Ancient Europe


    Q. Why doesn't gold make my people happy?

    Your citizens are impressed by conquest. Specifically conquest of Gaul, Greece, Egypt, Nabatae, Britania, and some of Germany. Gold instead adds +4% taxes from a market.

    Q. Why is the worker rate so slow?

    The time period of the game is rather short in Civilization terms.

    Also worth noting is that some tasks will consume the worker (eg building a mine).


    Q. How is a Castra building created?

    A slave must be consumed to create this building.


    Q. My citizens are unhappy, and production is too low!

    Have slaves join cities that have access to lots of food. Slaves consume only 1 food, and produce 2 hammers. This is especially important in Roma! Portus Ostia provides +10 food, and +25% food!!!! At times 1/3 of Roma's population were slaves.


    Q. I added too many slaves, and now the city is starving!

    Excess slaves will be automatically killed off if a city starves (no, they didn't eat the slaves).

    A granaria gives +2 food, but access to wheat is required to build it.


    Q. Hannibal's army is smashing through Italia, is looks hopeless! Should I give up?

    The Romans utilized 2 strategies against him in Italia. First was the typical Roman approach, raise a really large army and seek battle. After 3 major defeats a new strategy was utilized, the Fabian strategy http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fabian_strategy.

    While this was happening they sent troops to Hispania to capture the Carthaginian holdings there (Carthage captured a good part of Hispania between the 1st and 2nd Punic Wars). Following this Scipio (the surviving one) invaded Africa. To counter this Carthage recalled Hannibal to defend the motherland.

    In game terms it is set to work similar to this. Specifically, if you capture Hispania this will impress Numidia. Then, if you capture Utica they will ally with you as you are obviously the superior force. Also, Hannibal will be recalled, though his army will remain in Italia.

    Also worth mentioning is that Carthage will be fully disarmed when the 2nd Punic War ends.


    Q. I'm playing the 200AD scenario and things look really bad for the Romans!

    The Empire nearly went away during this period. The economy crashed, 2 major revolts took place, and there were barbarian migrations. For full details start here and follow all the links: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Crisis_of_the_Third_Century Most of the events described will happen, along with some other minor details from Gibbons book.

    The Roman army is based on a 60AD legion location map, and http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_auxiliary_regiments. The auxiliary regiments in the game are the miliara type, so smaller units were combined for game purposes.



    Q. In the 200/400/500AD scenario, how come there are still buildings to be built?

    Civ doesn't provide much in the way of wbs, python, or XML mechanisms to set initial conditions. Actually the only one it provide is GameTurn in the wbs file, but it doesn't work like one would expect. Setting the game turn in python works better, but still not like it needs to. Consider trade routes. Trade routes increase in value over time (but I've not found anyone who knows how to control this), and so does inflation. Neither of these are set the same as if one had played starting in 275BC! So to try to compensate for this the economic buildings are not fully developed as they would be if played from the start. Another issue with trade routes is that almost all cities in the game have the same start time, and trade duration, so they all change on the same turn! This is no good, no good at all :(

    Great people points (GPPs) are also in the same situation.

    It may be possible through the SDK to set these things right, but I don't have the skill to accomplish this, nor have heard of anyone attempting this sort of thing. It would certainly be the best solution.


    Q. The Romans had many vassals/client kings at times. How is this in the game?

    The implementation still needs work. For example, the Germanics should never offer capitulation, but currently they could though it is highly unlikely.

    As is there are 2 methods. The first is the regular vassal state that Warlords provides. This is available with Philosophy and Poetry tech. The reason it is here is that around this point (Augustus) the empire had grown so much that there was no capacity to annex new territories. Time was needed to absorb the existing territory before adding any more. In game terms this is desired to be an economic decision. There is a small penalty for number of cities, and a high penalty for having too big of an army. So the hope is to take vassals (eg Thrace, Judea, Pontus, Galatia, Armenia) while economic buildings are created in Hispania and Gaul.

    The other vassal type is done via python. Pergamum is handled this way. When the King of Pergamum died he bequeathed his kingdom to Rome. They will become your vassal, and then some turns later will be merged. Aegyptus is handled similarly, but to get Aegyptus to merge Mark Antony must be defeated first.

    Q. Please give an economic overview
    During the early Republican times your economy is in pretty good shape, however the need to keep the military large to enable expansion will consume most of the surplus. Still, with conquest the treasury will improve. Expectation is to run somewhere between 1000 - 2000 gold, but there will be dips, and if necessary proscription will be used (only 2 times though). Much of the time you will have a negative gold rate, but so long as the rate is not too high city conquest gold will keep things moving.

    Trade routes have a fixed yield of 3. In typical Civ these values will increase over time, but not so here. Only the number of routes will change.

    Many buildings directly increase the base commerce in a city (eg lupinaria/brothel), but only 3 increase the rate. The market can be built anywhere. With civitas (citizenship) the emporium and census can be built. The emporium provides bonuses from conquest (ie an additional 1-2% income for each conquered region), and the census provides +15% gold, but with 1 unhappy citizen. The emporium will become obsolete in 215AD.

    Combat will yield slaves (all legions till the Merc legion might create slaves), and slaves will create most of the tile improvements. This works great while slaves are readily available, but over time there will be fewer available as slaves are consumed, revolt, or are captured. This will make it difficult to recover from any plundering. In normal Civ you could just create new workers, but in RFRE the worker is a nation unit and only 1 is allowed.

    For the decline period, this article ("To what extent were economic factors to blame for the deterioration of the Roman Empire in the Third Century A.D?" by Julian Fenner ) is pretty good: http://www.roman-empire.net/articles/article-018.html


    Q. What is left to do?

    Balance! Please help by providing feedback.

    As mentioned above, vassalship needs work.

    Some sort of way to win the game needs to be created!

    Problems: Warlords starts, but then nothing happens

    Make sure Quickstart = 0 in CivilizationIV.ini


    ============ Original thread Section ==========================
    Spoiler :
    civIV version of Pink's awesome RFRE mod for civIII: http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=111682

    Opening this thread for planning purposes.

    RFRE will only be playable as the Romans. Starting time will be 275BC and go until ~600AD. The "technology tree" will be the historical timeline, instead of technology based. For example, cemento will become available around Hadrian's time, and it will allow contruction of the Pantheon.

    civIII RFRE armies will be replaced by this sort of unit:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Armies/Heros: only built once, standard unit for it's time with medic I + II + heal while moving + 30% withdrawl (or better)
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Gaul: Vercingetorix = 80% withdraw chance, +10% strength
    Scythia: Attila = +200% city attack
    Rome: Consular = +10% strengh, city garison I (NOT a hero, can be rebuilt, just more expensive and only 1 allowed)
    Scipio = +50% strength, immune to first strikes
    Caesar = +50% strength, commando
    Trajan = +50% strength, city raider I
    Belisarius = +50% strength, city raider I + II
    Persia: Surena = +100% collateral damage, 2 first strikes (should die since killed after too sucessful against Crassus)
    Britania: Boudica = ? (spawned by revolt only.. not buildable)
    Pontus: Mithradites = +50% strength, amphibious(?)
    Carthage: Hannibal = -80% city attack, 3 first strikes, +30% strength
    Hasbrudal = -100% city attack, +20% strength
    Dacia: Decabel = +100 city defense

    Consular armies are different than the others. They were destoryed regularly, but were rebuilt when needed, at least during republic times.

    Promotions will be tightly controlled. For example, the legion never did very well against mounted units, so a legion will never get the +25% vs cavalry promotion (legionII gets a free +25% vs elephants), and horse archers will get +50% vs heavy infantry. Horse archers will be buildable by a few select nations, a prime example being the Persians.

    An initial plan for the legion is to have 6 flavors:
    legio1 - should be defensive, food helps raise (Consular buildable)
    legio2 - scipio gives +20% strength AND +25% vs elephants, food helps raise (Scipio is buildable)
    legio3 - marius gives +1 attack (Caesar is buildable)
    legio4 - imperial legion +2 attack (Trajan is buildable)
    legio5 - merc legion, no support, but weaker
    legio6 - Comitatenses, very high hammer cost

    The first 2 legions conincide with a civic so they are produced with food. The rational is that the empire was small early on and the manpower used by the army did indeed stifle population growth. Also the early legionair largely provided his own equipment, and thus was cheaper for the state to raise. Starting with Marius legions anyone could get in, but the state had to provide the equipment, so just hammers from here on, and the slavery civic will be from here on.

    Legions will qualify for at least 2 city raider promotions. These will be tied to the seige equipment fielded by the armies. Raider I will represent seige towers + battering rams, and raider II will be missle engines (ballista, scorpion, catapult). This will be 1 of the key Roman advantages through the glory years! The Persians will be hampered with no raider promotions (effectivly, since it won't be available to most mounted units) until the time of the Sassands.

    The plan for now is to utilize the "Revolutions" mod in order to represent such events as Spartacus, Boudica, Jewish, Scicillian, Social War, etc... revolts and minor conflicts such as Tuetons/Cimbri, as well as civil wars (Caesar vs Pompey, Sulla vs Marius, etc...). Civil wars types will spawn barbarian legions. The hope is to generate the baddies somewhere around thier historical location, and sometime near thier appearance. The hope is that this provides more replay value than other methods.

    There is much work to do to get things going. A suitable 275BC map is needed. Just like the civIII version luxury goods will represent national goods (ie Greek goods, Egyptian goods). civIV would probobly melt if there was as many cities as in the civIII version! For sure the map will have to be large in order to accomodate the extent of the Roman empire. But first I'm going to work on mapping the basic tech trees.

    Initial questions:
    1. how many cities can be on the map?
    2. is the civIII RFRE dual-tech tree the way to do it in civIV? Or is that overkill, and there is something much easier now?
    3. can the great person lists be modified? ie, can we get "Apolodoris of Damascus" and "Pliny the Elder" instead of "Albert Einstein"? If so lists of suitable Romans are needed!
    4. is there a Rome/Carthage/Spain map available? This will be quicker for early development.
     
  2. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    This is fantastic news. pinktilapia's mod was one of the best CivIII mods ever.

    I can answer a few of your questions:

    1 - No idea, but I remember RFRE bogged down a lot in the end game.
    2 - I think that might be overkill, but it's doable. You can simply block tech paths in Civ4.
    3 - Yes, very easily in XML.
    4 - Check the maps section. There are also some tutorials around on making maps easier.

    Good luck :goodjob:
     
  3. KingMississippi

    KingMississippi Chieftain

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    Interested in providing any help I can
     
  4. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

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    Oh RFRE, good memories there ;)

    Bringing it to Civ4 would be amazing, and it really could be so much better with the hugely improved modding capabilities. I'd be willing to help with planning and possibly some actual work if this gets off the ground.
     
  5. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    At some point there should be lists created of suitable great persons. So far I have:
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    Great Roman People (not generals)
    ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++
    science - Livy, Pliny the Elder
    artist -Cincinnatus (a dictator when needed during chrisis, but later abdicates and returns to farming. An idol in Roman culture, but well before 275BC when the mod starts..)
    engineer - Apolodoris of Damascus, Hadrian?
    prophet - ?

    1 interesting approach to great engineers is to just have the list of emporers who commishioned the greatest works. So Trajan (forum), Hadrian (pantheon), Caracalla (bath house).. would be in the great engineer list.

    Similarly instead of actual great peopel for prophets, we could just have the various gods which were worshipped in the empire.
     
  6. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

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    I don't know if you would even need to have great prophets in. They don't seem to really fit with the Roman theme too well imo.
     
  7. Dionysius

    Dionysius Emperor

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    i might be of help with the maps, if you need any done.

    its my understanding he was a legend, to illustrate what a good dictator must do.
    ~~~~~
    i suggest lowering maintenance costs in this mod, as civ4 is less of a warmongering game than
    civ3.
    any way to add troop mood? troops rebellious in an highly unhappy city= civil war in that region.
     
  8. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

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    So just wondering, but are you actually planning on heading this up primordial stew? Or is pinktalapia going to do it and you are just seeing if there is any interest/starting to gather ideas? Or is pink not planning on it and you aren't either?
     
  9. woodelf

    woodelf Bard

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    I was wondering the same thing Gunner.
     
  10. strategyonly

    strategyonly C2C Supreme Commander

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  11. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    Don't, don't ever get the idea that I am in lead of this great undertaking. In barely know CivIV for a start, and I am actually at loss with several points raised in Primordial Stew's description above. I need to play the game before I can be of any help. And read a few threads on how to mod CivIV as well :crazyeye:

    I might help, as far as I can free some time, but I think what P. Stew's intended to achieve here by opening this thread is just to collect ideas on "what the mod should be" and see how many people are ready to help, for I understand CivIV well enough to know this can't be a one man job.

    I am glad to see we got already quite a few volunteers here :mischief:, including some long lost familiar faces (there you are Gunner!)
     
  12. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    With the conversion to Christianity there may need to be one, but that would be it. Probobly there will mostly be engineers, and maybe some merchants. The engineers will be targeted toward the many impressive buildings, but the GA needs 2 different types. Also Rome reached a population of ~1 million, so maybe the +1 food from great merchants can help make Roma bigger than any other city?
     
  13. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

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    Haha, don't worry Pink. I'm wasn't expecting you to do it, you've already done such an amazing job with the original. :) I don't really spend much time in the Civ3 forum anymore, but I do occasionally still lurk in the RFRE thread.


    I was actually seriously considering making a mod like this a few months ago, but decided against it and went with a different time period (its nearing completion too! :dance:) So maybe once I'm done with my current project I will look into a Roman one. Of course if something from this thread takes off then I'd love to help out with it.
     
  14. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    Mostly I just want to get this going, so I suppose for now at least ;) My only qualifications are that I've probobly played various versions of the civIII version at least 20 times, and I'll have lots of time for the next 2 months. Also I think I've played civIV and various mods (Rhyes, TAM, FFH) enough to understand how such things as unit ballance can be done. For example representing bigH (Hannibal) was a pain before, but I'm hoping that with promotions something like in my 1st post, he will be well represented. Probobly there will just be an event in phython which makes him appear out of the Alps once the 2nd Punic War starts.

    Right now I'm trying to get a handle on what all needs to get done. How do all of the ideas in the civIII version translate to civIV? Are there additional events which should be included?

    Consider how to implement something like citizenship.. these were very long turns in the civIII version since each city wo/ civitas had to switch to building civitas.. but civIV can handle it much better. It is an independent event, so anyone could contribute the code to do it. Building 1 of the civitas modicum proclamations will just invoke a python function (ie each such proclamation invokes the same function) which does:

    sub giveCivitas{
    foreach $city ( @allCities)
    if ( owner = roman )
    addBuildingToCity($city,civitas)
    }

    Just translate my pseudo-perl into working python code, and add it to the start or end of turn processing and that should be it!

    sub endOfTurn{
    if ( $civitasModicum == 1 ){
    &giveCivitas;
    $civitasModicum = 0
    }
    }

    Some things that were more abstract in civIII don't have to be now. Consider the wonderful things we can do with the Crisis of the 3rd Century :mischief: civIII was limited to making lots of people unhappy, but in civIV we can truely do it justice! It IS possible to have the new "Gaul" via a revolution. The cheap way would be the typical revolt where barbs pop up outside of those cities, or do it like in Rhye's and Fall of Civ and actually have the nation of Gallia come into existence!! I'm pretty sure the latter is SDK + Revolution mod type stuff, but maybe someone could come up with it :) This would also be handy for handling the Vandals, and probobly others like the Huns.

    Also now we could do cool things like automatically name legions.
    I Macedonia
    I Parthia
    I Italia
    There can be a bit of python that gets run when a unit is created. It would have to know which region the unit was raised in (based on a static list of cities?) and who the emperor is (eg Flavian Dynasty = put Flavia in instead of region).
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_Roman_legions
    Someone could translate that list into a suitable python function.

    So.... how about this:
    Phase 1:
    period = 275 - 150BC
    art = get by with 100% civIV units if possible (keep the dl very small)
    map = Lower Gallia, Carthage, Hispania, Illria (a sub-set of the full map)
    objective = create a simple, but playable mod
    misc = This will play faster (always good for debug!) and force us to concentrate on getting the basic game working. Sorting out who can build what types of units, and thier cost/available promotions/AI tweaks..

    Phase 2:
    period = 275 - 50AD
    art = units
    map = full map
    objectives = fleshing out most nations. Evaluate capacity (is the map sized right? are there enough/too many cities? etc..)
    misc = should be pretty easy without rebellions and revolts.

    Phase 3:
    art = wonders? more units?
    misc = add rebellion/revolts (Spartacus, Social Wars, etc..)

    Phase 4:
    period = 275BC - 600AD
    art = anything else we can get :D
    map = full map
    objective = finish it!
     
  15. Gunner

    Gunner Emperor

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    One thing to keep in mind with Civ4 is that you can essentially do anything you want through Python and the SDK. This really constrasts from the days of Civ3 where the main challenge was to come up with some way to work around the engine to simulate what you wanted. It really requires a whole new way of thinking about the game and how to mod it.

    It would be easy to automatically give the citizenship building to every city with python. You could also do things with giving citizenship to all cities in a certain region (like Italy.) You could then go on to easily implement some type of thing which would only let you recruit legions in cities with citizenship. I'm thinking that citizenship definitely should be one of the civic categories.

    You would also with python be able to set certain units (like auxiliaries) to only be built in their correct regions.

    The scripting of python event will also really improve RFRE. As you said before, Hannibal and other great enemies of Rome can be spawned at the correct time and location. You could really go crazy with the scripting depending on how deterministic you wanted the game to be, even to the point of removing most of the tech tree and granting things at their historical times.

    The possibilites are really endless, it gets me excited just thinking about it :D
     
  16. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    But if the possibilities are so endless, why is the vanilla game so unflavourful?! What were they thinking?

    Now, if there are no limits, it seems we will have to think hard on how to safeguard playability and fun from too many historical events (hard to do!)... I should dig out the old RFRE alpha thread for a timeline of the main events I made then, although it is certainly dated ;)
     
  17. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    The Romans will definetly be "organized" (maps to the Praetor wonder), and civitas will act as a court house. There will be plenty of war, the Pax Romana, and then plenty more war :/ I do plan on having much higher support costs than vanilla civIV. This was definetly a historical issue. 8gpt under a Republic govt was the final number from civIII!

    Yes please, there are 2 maps actually. The 1st is a sub-set of the 2nd, so it will be ~25% of the size of the full map. Is it possible to "cut out" a smaller map from a larger one? Unfortunatley I don't know what the scale should be.. The full map should cover the area the civIII RFRE map did, so it will be very large.

    The smaller map is just a cut-out to cover the Punic wars period. It should have lower Gallia, Hispania, Numidia, Carthage, Caspian Gaul, Illyria, and some of the Greeks (not Macedonia).

    RFRE luxuries are "national goods". Just map them to regular luxuries:

    Egyptian goods = incense
    Greek goods = wine (only in Greece proper, not Turkey)
    Gaul goods = dye (note there is 1 in Hispania and 1 in Magna Grecia)
    Barbarian goods = fur
    Britanic goods = silver
    Oriental goods = silk

    Don't worry about the Fedorati, over-used land, or celt resources. Those can be done later (some sort of graphic is needed). Gold will be a bonus resource, so just leave those.

    As for cities... there should be few cities in Britania (the Romans added many cities there), and maybe 1/3 less Germanic cities as well. Overall most nations will lose 1-2 cities(?) since civIV can't handle as many. And don't include the Alps Cottia city.

    My plan is to unlock health resources in the tech tree in order to manage population. There were plenty of plagues, and disease about. The Romans will be able to build aqueducts and bath houses to overcome this. However the decline (and civil wars) will obsolete health resources in order to reduce population/productivity/income.

    This is what the RFRE map should be :eek: Let me know if you want to take this on!
     
  18. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    Yeah, even the Warlords stuff seems more like a demo than the sort of in depth experiece many of us were hoping for.. Warlords also added(?) a funditor looking unit in the Alexander scenario, but it's capabilities were reallllly lame.

    How about 3 difficulty levels?
    praetor = only Spartacus, Boudica, and Caesar vs Pompey (1 of each type?)
    consular = everything except the 3rd century Gaul rebellion, and something else
    dictactor = everything

    The objective should be to recreate the experience. Revolts and fighting civil wars are part of that. I will guess that once the code is figured out it will be trivial to add more, and difficulty level can be used to select how many the player wants to endure (Blitz would want them all!). But yes, some lists should be published so they can be discussed.


    > The possibilites are really endless, it gets me excited just thinking about it

    Playing the Rebellion mod is what finally pushed me over the edge. And then seeing how Rhye uses it, wow!

    There is so much going on in modding!
    http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=175551&page=3
    ballista and onager graphics. But is dicrete artillary the right approach? I would think most was integral with the legion, and so is better represented through the city raider promotions than seperate units. How then how does one reduce city defenses? Maybe there should be code which reduces city defenses to 0% following a sucessful attack by a unit with city raider I (ie they attacked with a battering ram and broke the gate/wall)? Opinions???
     
  19. pinktilapia

    pinktilapia Homeless

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    It is old, the second post of the thread, dated of August 04 2004 (nostalgia - I was young and free then ;) ) but here is a basic list that could use some update/correction, but at least it is a start. (Open the pic attached)

    EDIT. Post #16 also has a timeline, although focused on conflicts and troubles.
     
  20. Dionysius

    Dionysius Emperor

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    is there going to be a soundtrack with this?
    theres a good one "ConquestsRoman" i found in
    Warlords/Assets/Sounds/Soundtrack.
     

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