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civIV Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (RFRE)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by primordial stew, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > Here is my PythonErr.log

    Nope, thats PythonErr2.log!
     
  2. Agent327

    Agent327 Observer

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    Yes, I got it too.;)
     
  3. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    >> Here is my PythonErr.log

    Nope, thats PythonErr2.log!


    This is the most similar to PythonErr.log I could find. The PythonErr.log dose not exist in the folder you indicated for me to look.
     
  4. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    In My Documents\My Games\Warlords\CivilizationIV.ini
    is this set?

    ; Enable the logging system
    LoggingEnabled = 1


    If not, it needs to be set, and the play the game till there is a problem. The files get overwritten whenever the game starts.
     
  5. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    Here you have my PythonErr.log file.

    There is some problem with Imperial legion art. When the solders in the unit are killd, instead of folling to the ground, they stend in ther place and thon't do anything.
     

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  6. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    Nothing useful in there. I did learn that it's not -1 population that is the cause. I'll need a savegame.


    And here is the question for today: Should legions be able to be sacrificed for culture, or turned into some sort of specialist, or custom building?

    The settling of retired/disbanded legions was a major issue. You certainly don't want a lot of disgruntled soldiers against you. It was 1 of the inherent problem with raising too many legions. They had to be given land when discharged.

    The legion upgrade path could be removed. So with obsolete legions you might as well settle them! It would be done opposite I'm sure, where your experienced veterans soldier on, and the inexperienced obsolete troops are settled.. but the effect is still there.

    If going with a custom building, what? This is probably best since there can only be 1 of a building type in any city. Specialists have no limits, unless something like -1 food is used. What would the building do?? Maybe +1 culture, +1 gold? Is there a name given to this practice??

    It would be available up to the Imperial legion. Perhaps there could be a benefit of +1 happy in Roma for 10 turns when such a building is created?

    What will it take for people to put their legions out to pasture :crazyeye: :lol:
     
  7. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Were entire legions disbanded at one time, or just in centuries?

    Perhaps you should remove the upgrade path so the obsolete legions stay around, but for them to be disbanded they have to have X xp. Disbanding them this way creates a building 'Veterani' with some sort of bonus. Legions with <X xp are just sacked and a medium amount of production to the city.
    I don't think stopping settling them down with Imperials is the best idea. I am pretty sure that during the early-late third century, and possibly later, Comitatenses were being settled down, but many either went mercenary or later on joined the Bacaudae as they were unable to earn enough money farming. (Quite a few kept their equipment). In addition, I read somewhere that rome was runnign out of land for the legions, and that was a major factor in hiring more barbarians, they didn't need to recieve land.

    EDIT: Pstew, I was looking through one of the AARs on the old RFRE, and I noticed alot of the events had images with them. I know it is possible to have popups with images on them, so if your interested, I could find images for key events. (Eg, Justinian, Adrianople, Teutoberg Forest, ect). Also, i am glad that Python is here. In the AAR I looked at, the Germans decided to go to war with another barbarian group, so the empire just sort of waltzed along merrily.
     
  8. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > Were entire legions disbanded at one time, or just in centuries?

    At times I believe when the army was too big to sustain, like after civil wars. Anyway, it's the only unit available so will have to do!

    Did the practice only start with the Marian legions? Prior to those reforms one already had to have land in order to be eligible to join the legion, so that would make sense.


    > XP

    Yeah, I thought about term of service tracking, but it might be too much complication to have to deal with. There would need to be some count kept which would have some sort of negative effect, and some interface so the player was aware of it.... Some sort of representation of the practice is good enough, at least for now!


    Added a SS showing Marius supporters fighting Sulla's troops.
     

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  9. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Marian Legions>That makes sense, as with the marian legions the army was getting bigger so they were calling upon some less well off recruits.

    XP tracking>Why does there have to be a negative effect? You don't want to keep around pointless units and you need all the cash you can get. So ditch the obsolete units and get a free building.

    Random idea>I remember reading that with many of the border towns during the Imperial times, the legions being stationed their was critical for their monentary based economy as the only way money came into the towns was through the legions wages, and they had to spend it somewhere, so they spent it in the town. Perhaps give a building with a modest maintnence reducer/comerce % bonus if X Imperial legions are fortified there. This can do somewhat to counteract the numerous maintnence increasing buildings you have to build. An alternate way is to have the city get it by default if it is on the borders of the empire during the Imperial time.
     
  10. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > Veterani
    The ex-soldiers got very angry if not given land, there was no good to it from the state's point of view.

    I should explain some more. Only legions can build paved roads. Workers and slaves build slower roads, so there is definite value in keeping them around at least for this. No more idle legions, build build build! So the time is probably if you cannot afford them, or have enough roads already, then you might as well get some benefit out of disbanding them.

    Maybe they could also build civitas also? That might encourage earlier setting to get the -10% maintenance and +1 trade route in some far off city. After Constitio Antonii the other building would effectively be the only choice left.


    > border economy
    This is actually why they can build cottages. It's the town that grew up around them if there were stationary for too long!


    I added a SS above showing the Marius supporters routing Sulla's auxillaries.

    No Gallic campaign yet.. I did play to 71BC last night, but had to rewind to fix and experience the 1st civil war (Marius supporters take over Lusitania). Sulla just arrived in Hispania, but with only 3 legions. More are being raised!
     
  11. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    Here you have save of my game before and after the main interface stoped working correctly.

    Legion setteling:
    Good idea. It should be started with Marius legions and then be avalabel for every legion in which there were solders with out land at home. When used it is probably the best to meke a building so you can represent the runing out of land in Roman empire.
     

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  12. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    Perhaps a legion could make a building that gives +3 culture per turn and +5% defense bonus to the city. That building would represent the Roman citizen-soldiers from that disbanded legion settling in the area.

    Also, the Player could have an option to burn up a Legion in a city to give that city a one time 150 culture point boost (similar to what can be done with a great artist, but a LOT less culture bonus). Border cities need higher culture so the Player can build Limes along rivers, and this would help.

    I'm not a big fan of this idea because with the Civitas improvement a Player can also build a Census, Triumphus, Legion unit, etc. in that city. Couldn't this mess up the timeline?

    Any guesstimate on when you might post next patch? :)

    Regarding the map and Germania, should the city near the river in modern day Belgium -- the city that is northwest of Colonia Agrippa -- be conquerable? I believe on the RFRE map it is located in what was Germania Inferior, the Roman province northeast of Belgica. The way the map is now, most of France and Belgium is wide open forest that the Player cannot have a city in, and thus Rome cannot build Limes along the full extent of the Rhine.

    Regarding the map and Sarmatia, shouldn't the Hun (Scythian?) cities north and northeast of Dacia be unconquerable? The Romans had a foothold in the Crimean Penninsula and modern day Sevastopol, but other than that I don't think they ever conquered the rest of the Ukraine.

    Could the Portus Oeste give extra food bonus over what it has now to enable the player to put more slaves in Rome? Besides being slaves, these people could also represent plebes who didn't do much productive other than hang out and eat grain imported from Sicily and Egypt.

    Is the Constitution Antonio (sorry, forgot the name) Wonder -- the one that grants Civitas to every city -- working properly? If I remember right, I had to modify the XML file in order to receive the Civitas building in every city after building that Wonder. But maybe I misunderstood what the Wonder was supposed to do, or maybe I somehow screwed up the XML file when I was playing around with something else?

    Regarding Britania goods, I was thinking that if it is fixed so it gives +1 happiness with a quarry or whatever, then the Crisis of the Third Century needs to make one more person UNhappy to offset that benefit.
     
  13. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > Any guesstimate on when you might post next patch? :)

    Should be this weekend. It's mostly done except for play testing, and minor things. Certainly there will be more problems, but the major stuff like the techs need to be in good order.

    The Gallic campaign is very soon. The last of the Marius supporters have been cowed, and Syria and the Pirates have agreed to vassalship. Embarrassingly the Western Greeks are still around, but they will go very quickly... Pompey/Caesar + veterans are making their way from Asia to lead the army attacking from Tuetonari, while Sulla/Caesar leads the thrust from Hispania. Pontus and Galatia still need conquering too..

    The only thing missing at this point is the Jugerthine War, and maybe Sextus Pompey.


    > Regarding the map and Sarmatia, shouldn't the Hun (Scythian?) cities north and northeast of Dacia be unconquerable?

    Sort of... my thinking is that the Huns will take them. It won't matter who controls them when the Huns show up! Of course, they could get homeland_fortress' until the Huns actually do show up.


    > Perhaps a legion could make a building that gives +3 culture per turn and +5% defense bonus to the city. That building would represent the Roman citizen-soldiers from that disbanded legion settling in the area.

    That's good too, but the crux is trying to get them to settle away from "civilization". Maybe something like all of the cities in Italia start with another "game mechanism" building (which is of the same buildingclass as the Veterani)? Does that work like I'm thinking??

    More later.. need to go!
     
  14. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Legion settling> I don't think that when you settle a legion you should get a defensive bonus. Rome didn't encourage the creation of a civilian militia, and during the siege of Rome in 410, Alaric was informed that the citizens of Rome had formed a militia. The deeply unimpressed warlord responded "Thick grass is easier to mow than thin". The reason the civilians of the empire was so stable is that until the 5th century with the bacaudae, they didn't have any real weapons. Plus if they revolted the legions would send them through a meat grinder.

    sacking legions for culture>I don't think it would be best to allow legions to be sacked for culture (it has been replaced by influence, right?) because influence is also abstractly showing the roman-ness of a city, and just because legions were settled there didn't make it 'Roman'. Perhaps limes forts could use the starbase mechanic from Final Fronter, where they extend cultural borders slightly.

    Ukrainian cities>I don't think they need homeland forteresses, as who really wants to conquer those cities? They have no improvements, middle of nowhere, and by the time you get enough units to go on the offensive against the Skuda they get, the barbarians start getting Bellatores Loricati.
     
  15. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    54BC with most of the troops on the verge of crossing into Gallic territory..... when the Germanics declare war! Oh well, on with the invasion. Hope the Germanics aren't too strong!

    3000 gold @ -78gpt with lots of wealth building.

    The last Gallic city fell in 28BC. I made some XML tweaks, but overall it's likely to take longer than 8 years. Fighting Germania at the same time didn't help. They even landed troops in Hispania! Gaul actually landed 2 different groups there as well! They had captured Narbo during the 2nd Punic war timeframe, so built some ships there.
     
  16. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    Legion settling>Instead of defensive bonus it would be better to give it some commerce bonus and perhaps production bonus - the solders from disbanded legions were there to work not to fight (if they wanted them to fight they wouldn't disband the legion).
     
  17. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    That was a colossal production! Very entertaining.

    Yes, there could be more images added. Some of the wonders could use something too.
     
  18. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    What sounds need to be changed? I've got new sounds for the Roman temple, and amphitheater. What else?
     
  19. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    New sounds are always nice. None of the buildings particuarly stand out at needing one. But I'll check once my comp is up and running.
    Sorry about not getting some trial pictures yet, I just got a new comp and I'm not done installing all the drivers yet.

    Have you given any thought to a custom soundtrack or a few custom songs? As I mentioned in an earlier post, I dled a mod for RTW that has a bunch of tracks from Gladiator, Alexander, and EU:Rome.
     
  20. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    Yeah, mine is a bit messed up at the moment too. I tried installing into the same dirs in win7x64 rc so I could play while in that. The install "worked", but neither Civ or Warlords will start.. No error message, no log message, the process just ends. Colonization works just fine. I didn't try BtS.

    Back in xp land I reran the 213 patch (which also patches Civ), but while Civ starts up now, Warlords still refuses to. It's a clean install... ehh, well something went wrong.

    The play test made it 42AD so far, but I want to go to ~70AD for the Jewish revolt.


    > Diadochi

    I've been listening to the tracks, and looking at some of the art.
     

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