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civIV Rise and Fall of the Roman Empire (RFRE)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Creation & Customization' started by primordial stew, Aug 26, 2006.

  1. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    http://forums.civfanatics.com/downloads.php?do=file&id=12885

    See the releaseNotes at the end of the database entry. The biggest change is adding 50 turns to the 100-0 period. The Gallic campaign will take longer than history (most short things do!), so don't expect a mere 8 turns! Probably around 20, or less if enough troops are utilized.

    The second biggest play change is probably the roads. Please review: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Roman_roads. At the end there are some dates for some of the segments along with maps. Can the roads be built as they were? Only legions and fabers can build via publicae.

    The 200AD scenario does not have all of the historical roads, you must complete some of the segments. Most of the strategic routes do exist though. Get to work!


    My Warlords is still jacked... I can load the mod, view the pedia, but not play. If warlords.exe is run from d:\civ4\Warlords (where it's been for years) it fails with an XML error, but if the dir is renamed it starts up just fine! The play test ended in 42AD, and I didn't get to look over things very well right at the end :mad:

    So please try this out and post if it's ok or not.
     
  2. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I'll try it later this week. I looked at the release notes, and I'll constantly be reminded of the puppet character Faber Ozzie when looking at the unit Faber.

    warlords>did you try reinstalling it?
     
  3. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    Patch 8 is running well. A couple comments so far:

    * I had problems ending the 2nd Punic War. I wiped out the army at Zama but Carthage did not surrender. There was a unit with "Zama" in its name that was not part of the immobile stack, so based on previous posts maybe that was the issue.

    * Should the (Dacian) Falxman unit have +15% forest defense bonus rather than -15% forest defense penalty? That looks like it might have been a typo in the XML.

    * Should the defensive buildings have zero percent conquestprob, assuming that they would be heavily damaged during a siege and assault? For example, the conquestprob for the following buildings could be changed from 60 back to 0 like they were in patch 7: pallisades, fortress, walls, opidum, and dun

    * Should culture flipping be disabled? Rhodes defected from my empire, as did two cities in southeastern Greece and also the city near modern day Monte Carlo on the southern coast of France. All these cities were (lightly) garrisoned and had a couple culture buildings, like a Cemetary and a Roman Temple.

    All-in-all excellent work PStew. Thanks for getting the new patch out!
     
  4. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > I had problems ending the 2nd Punic War.

    Damn.. There should be 6 units in the army, and only 5 need to be killed.

    Attached is a different rfre.py, just replace the existing one, and restart before Utica is captured.


    > Should the defensive buildings have zero percent conquestprob

    Good point, I just blindly replaced 0 with 60. Maybe 20 is a good number? If the walls were easy to repair, or the city was taken by deception like when Scipio took Carthago Nova.

    > Should the (Dacian) Falxman unit have +15% forest defense bonus rather than -15% forest defense penalty

    Yes.


    How is road building going? I added the Fabers after the play test.

    Once the playtest starts, new units and buildings cannot be added, but values can be tweaked. The Vetrenari wasn't tested either, but I doubt anyone will use them anyway.

    I did get my Warlords repaired. For whatever reason I had to do a *full* uninstall first.


    Oh, and there are 2 wav file in assets/sounds/lob. address.wav is what I was *planning* on using for the Roman temple, and the other for the amphitheatre. They might be a little long (12 and 9 seconds), but what do you think?
     

    Attached Files:

    • rfre.7z
      File size:
      35 KB
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      35
  5. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    Played until 15BC. I am somewhat behind the timeline, because I have not yet captured Numidia, Galatia, Pontus, Petra, or Syria. However, I conquered half of Britain already (the campaign is in progress) and I took a couple cities from Dacia already, so I should be able to catch up to the timeline soon. (Note that I lost about six turns off my expansion rate due to the bug I mentioned previously regarding the error with the 2nd Punic War. I did not bother to go back and replay from a save).

    A) Road building is going okay. I have one Imperial Legion and the two Fabers slowly extending my imperial road network.

    B) To make it worthwile, the Veterani building should have its current stats plus any of the following: +1 hammer, +1 commerce, or +2 food. Legionaries often became farmers on the land granted to them by the State. I doubt anyone would waste a Legion to make the building given its stats in patch 8.

    C) The Triumphus should have zero conquestprob so that barbarians cannot use it as a barracks. To offset this, perhaps reduce its shield cost from 100 down to 70 because some might have to be rebuild occasionally.

    D) The Munitor only adds 20 culture when burned. Maybe you could raise this to 71 so that by using two Munitors, the Player would achieve a decent city radius [140 is the threshold for the city to move up in its influence status, so 2 (x) 71 (=) 142 will cross that level].

    E) The Immolati Christianum should give -1 culture penalty rather than -2. Raising culture is a pain, especially around the border areas, since cities do not retain culture on capture and have to start from zero.

    F) City flipping is getting really annoying. I have lost a total of five cities so far. Byzantium switched over the Galatia and I had to declare war on them to get it back.

    G) Should the Brothel give one green face (unhealth) since communicable diseases and parasites can be spread from human contact. Rumor has it that once Julius Caesar made a slave pluck out all Caesar’s body hair because he was overrun with little critters, but that may have been pure fiction in the historical novel I was reading. Anyway, if the Brothel gives one unhealthy then it might become necessary to build a few Supplemental Aqueducts, since very few cities ever need them the way the game stands now.

    H) I discovered the Commerce(?) Tech and it enabled the Pax Romana civic. However, the anarchy period was 36 turns so I did not change government. At what point does Python automatically switch the Player’s government to Pax Romana?

    I) After I had built the National Epic in Rome, I discovered that I could not build the Coliseum there because only a maximum 4 national wonders are allowed per city! I tried raising the maximum limit in the XML but for some reason that did not work. I had to use CTRL-W to delete the National Epic from Rome and move it to another city. Only then could I start work on the Coliseum.

    J). One of Marc Antony’s ships disappeared. Just plain vanished. I could not end the civil war. I sank the whole fleet except for one last ship, but then on the next turn it was gone. The ticker at the top of the screen said that there was one ship left (by ticker I mean the banner at the top of the screen that usually says how many turns until the next tech is discovered). I sent my fleet in every direction and could not find the missing boat. Marc Antony’s ship had 4 moves and my Quinq Summa’s had six, so there is no way the Egyptian ship could have outrun me and escaped. I reloaded from a save and left a badly wounded ship as bait, but the same thing happened again. I looked in the World Builder and could not find the ship – it was just gone. Anyway, to solve the problem, I reloaded from a save and used CTRL-W to move an extra ship so that it would be right next to Marc Antony’s fleet, and with those reinforcements I wiped out the Egyptian fleet in one turn and could continue with the game.

    K) The Just & Claud Dynasty tech should require Commerce, Grand Architecture, and Siege Warfare. Right now, it is the Player’s option which to research in what order. Unless the Player researches Just & Claud last of those four techs, then it would be possible to build the Christian Persecution Wonder in the B.C. period which does not make sense since Jesus would not have even been born yet.
     
  6. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    I haven't had a chance to play the mod, but perhaps Brothel could be named to Postibrulum. I can't check the spelling right now. The latin name change makes it fit well with the other buildings.
     
  7. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    Plaid till 193BC so far.

    1. Can't get past second Punic war. Even the new rfre.py file don't help.

    2. I think via publicae is a little to expensive at least for legio 1 and 2. 24 turns for one tile is a little to much if you ask me (fore one legion).
     
  8. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    You may already know this, but if you are stuck at the 2nd Punic War, you can use CTRL-W to pull up the World Builder interface and "edit city" on Carthage and unshade the Homeland Fortress so you can conquer Carthage. You will never have a 3rd Punic War if you wipe out Carthage in this way, but that's what I had to do....


    Yeah, it is very expensive. Maybe cut the cost down to 16 turns instead of 24.
     
  9. Ajidica

    Ajidica High Quality Person

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    Pstew: I just got around to seeing the movie Gladiator and it was pretty good. Any chance we could use a still of Commodus from there as his leader pic as opposed to his current one? His current one looks a bit to british soap opera-y.

    Unfortunatly I havent had time to dl the new version and unfortunatly I'll be gone on vacation.
     
  10. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > 1. Can't get past second Punic war. Even the new rfre.py file don't help.

    Ehh... let me try it again.


    > 2. I think via publicae is a little to expensive at least for legio 1 and 2. 24 turns for one tile is a little to much if you ask me (fore one legion)

    Yes, the road expansion was slow initially. The wikipedia page gives some dates, but many have none listed. To mimic this the work rate improves starting with the Marius legion. Perhaps it's not enough though. Maybe Marius should be double, and Imperial double that? It wouldn't be right to just build them everywhere, so it can never be too fast..


    > I just got around to seeing the movie Gladiator and it was pretty good

    It's about time! Do you appreciate the sound track more now? The opening battle scene is pretty powerful.

    The BBC/HBO series "Rome" is also highly recommended. The button for the Marius legion is of Lucius Vorenus from this. He is 1 of 2 legionnaires that Caesar named in his Commentarii de Bello Gallico.


    > perhaps Brothel could be named to Postibrulum

    Yes, latin names for all :goodjob: I went back through the original RFRE dev thread and grabbed whatever additional latin names I could find, but some are still missing.


    > use a still of Commodus from there

    I can probably do that.


    > B) To make it worthwile, the Veterani building should have its current stats plus any of the following: +1 hammer, +1 commerce, or +2 food. Legionaries often became farmers on the land granted to them by the State. I doubt anyone would waste a Legion to make the building given its stats in patch 8.

    But how to do keep it to the unsettled areas? They can't settle in Italia, or Greece, etc.. it has to be off in Hispania or something.

    Perhaps a more complicated solution is all that can make this work right.


    > C) The Triumphus should have zero conquestprob so that barbarians cannot use it as a barracks.

    Good point!


    > D) The Munitor only adds 20 culture when burned.

    Use more Munitors! There is some cost for them existing, but other than that what would stop excessive spamming?

    Should I add something to limit the total number than can be built? It might not be the best..


    > F) City flipping is getting really annoying.

    There is a mod comp for fixed borders. I'll look into that.


    > H) I discovered the Commerce(?) Tech and it enabled the Pax Romana civic.

    It should happen when you discover the tech :confused: I'll test it out.


    > G) Should the Brothel give one green face (unhealth) since communicable diseases

    Perhaps. Would it be worth building then? Brothels have been around forever, so we want them to be.


    > E) The Immolati Christianum should give -1 culture penalty rather than -2

    It was -1 for a while, but that wasn't significant. Roman religion gives +1 and is present in all of your cities, so it has to be over that.

    There is growing discontent as Christianity spreads. You need to counteract that with solid Roman entertainment, like theaters!


    > I) After I had built the National Epic in Rome, I discovered that I could not build the Coliseum there because only a maximum 4 national wonders are allowed per city!

    Damn, I thought that had been changed a while ago. Will up it to 8 (so 16 on a large map).


    > J). One of Marc Antony’s ships disappeared. Just plain vanished.

    It only matters that they get killed (even if by pirates), so it must have moved somewhere. AFAIK the AI never disbands any units.. so hiding in some port?

    This is a fear with the current approach. The sea battle was the decisive part of this conflict. Antony had a substantial army, but after losing the naval battle it didn't matter. Maybe the spawn point can be further north so they are easier to trap? The location would be off, but the effect would be right.


    > K) The Just & Claud Dynasty tech should require Commerce, Grand Architecture, and Siege Warfare. Right now, it is the Player’s option which to research in what order. Unless the Player researches Just & Claud last of those four techs, then it would be possible to build the Christian Persecution Wonder in the B.C. period which does not make sense since Jesus would not have even been born yet.

    Sure, but why would you? Anyway, yes it makes sense so let it be done!
     
  11. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    177AD and all-is-well in Rome. I have now extended my empire to its historical boundaries (except for three remaining Pontic cities).

    i) The cities of Castra Regina and Moganticum are on the north side of the Rhine. In Civ3 RFRE, I believe they were on the south side. Which is correct?

    ii) Eburacum culture flipped to Briton in 60AD despite the fact that the city had a very strong garrison, Hadrian’s Wall, a fortress, and a Veterani. Oh, and I had exterminated the British civilization many years before....

    iii) In a Jewish rebellion around 72AD, Judea was given the city of Jerusalem, but the city had no garrison units and Rome was not put at war with Judea. I had to declare war on them and then simply move a unit into the city to take it back. Was this just culture flipping or was this supposed to be a war?

    iv) Similar issue with a Jewish revolt around 121AD when the city of Cyrene switched over to their ownership. I had to declare war on them and then simply move a unit into the city to take it back.

    v) Would it be possible to use a different picture for the button to burn a Legion to create a Veterani building? It is the same picture as a Slave uses to make a Catasta and if both types of units are in a stack it can get confusing. I mistakenly disbanded one of my most experienced Imperial Legions that way….

    vi) Why do the cities of Franks near Belgium and the city of Aquincum near Yugoslavia have Homeland Fortresses? Those areas could be conquered in Civ3 RFRE, and I looked at a map of the Roman Empire and it seems that those areas were within Rome’s territorial boundaries, but the map was pretty large scale so I could not be 100% sure.

    vii) I was late conquering Numidia so they were still around in 18AD. I was surprised when they launched a naval invasion on Pontus and captured the city of Trebizond. Needless to say, Mithradates quickly repelled the invasion force and recaptured his city. Should non-ocean-going civilizations have the ability to build ship transport units?

    xiii) Very minor point, almost irrelevant, but “Tribus Germanica” and “Ionian Cavalry” barbarian units are emerging from the North African desert. Could they be renamed based on geography? Also, Armenia had “Iberian Mounted Javelineers”.

    ix) After I was automatically converted from Principate to the second Triumvirate, I never bothered to switch back to Principate again because I did not want to go through 5-6 turns of anarchy. Perhaps a python script could be added to do this, including mandatory anarchy if necessary. Or else make the Constitution Antoni and Forum Trajanus Wonders require the Principate form of government, and then the Player would switch back for sure. Anyway, in my current game I am waiting until I discover the Diocletion Reform tech and then I will go straight to Absolute Principate.

    x) Parthia was a cakewalk in the two wars we fought so far. They should be strengthened. Maybe give their cavalry extra bonuses against heavy and medium units? The Parthians were historically strong enough to wipe out Crassus, after all.

    xi) I captured Sarmizegetusa from Dacia and had two roads connecting it to the rest of my Empire but Trajan’s Column was not placed in Rome. (On the other hand, maybe Trajan’s Column never appeared because at the time I checked, Sarmizegetusa itself may not have been inside my cultural border, or maybe the city was still in rebellion from just recently being captured by me). In the XML, Trajan’s Column required Forbidden Advance and had -1 cost, so I solved the problem by changing the XML to require Antoni Golden Age tech and cost 1. After that, I was able to properly build the Column and then the Trajan Forum.

    xii) I discovered the Crisis of the Third Century tech in the mid-100's AD. Shouldn't it get discovered in the 200-225AD range somewhere?
     
  12. Jakob Safa

    Jakob Safa Chieftain

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    >> 2. I think via publicae is a little to expensive at least for legio 1 and 2. 24 turns for one tile is a little to much if you ask me (fore one legion)

    Yes, the road expansion was slow initially. The wikipedia page gives some dates, but many have none listed. To mimic this the work rate improves starting with the Marius legion. Perhaps it's not enough though. Maybe Marius should be double, and Imperial double that? It wouldn't be right to just build them everywhere, so it can never be too fast..


    Early Rome simply don't have enough legions to build a lot of via publicate, because it is Small and all the legions are occupied with conquest.

    >x) Parthia was a cakewalk in the two wars we fought so far. They should be strengthened. Maybe give their cavalry extra bonuses against heavy and medium units? The Parthians were historically strong enough to wipe out Crassus, after all.

    If you used imperial legions then you definitely had an advantage over Crassus who had marian legions with him. You could also use more legions then he had and Crassus was a vary bad commander. So if you already had imperial legions you should be able to crush the Partians (this is why there are homeland fortress in some partian cites ;) ) otherwise your Parthians are the opposite of mine (mine always wipe out entire Seleucid empire and have a lot of troops)
     
  13. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    Yeah, you are probably right. I was behind the timeline and did not really attack Parthia until around 170AD, which is like 55 years after Trajan kicked their butts, and what maybe like 200 years after Crassus tried? And when I attacked, I had a couple large stacks of Imperial Legions backed by Onagers and auxiliary troops, which is far more than what Crassus had. And he was a tactical idiot, too, losing all his cavalry before the real battle even began....

    But later in the RFRE timeline, Parthia's strength need to ratchet up considerably. They took Antioch in 256AD, for example, during the Crisis of the Third Century.
     
  14. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    Is the unit promotion "limes" working correctly? I discovered the Conversion to Constantine tech and I have bunch of heavy units (Imperial Legions, Miles Aux, and Limitanei) with the Combat I (one star) promotion that cannot be given the limes promotion even though they have the experience points for a promotion.

    EDIT: I think that the CIV4PromotionInfos.xml file needs to be changed to properly allow the Limes promotion. Where the Limes promotion requirement in the p8 xml file says:
    <PromotionPrereqOr1>PROMOTION_SMITHY</PromotionPrereqOr1>

    I believe that what it should say is:

    <PromotionPrereqOr1>PROMOTION_COMBAT1</PromotionPrereqOr1>

    Am I correct? With this change, my units can now get the Limes promotion and I will continue the game.
     
  15. gringoesteban

    gringoesteban Senior Consul

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    I hope someone can help me out....

    It is 259AD and I just discovered the Christian Faith technology as the Gauls rebelled throughout Spain, France, and Britain as part of the Crisis of the Third Century. So far, so good. However, when the turn began, my user interface was gone. Vanished! I can't hold the mouse cursor over a stack of units to see their stats, I cannot see how many enemy units are in a city or how many units are in my own stacks, etc. If I try to attack, I cannot see the combat odds.

    How can I get the interface back? CTRL-I does not work. I tried reloading from a save four turns prior but the same thing happened when I arrived at 259AD.

    I have attached the save at 259AD.

    Note that my RFRE folder is at
    C:\Program Files\2K Games\Firaxis Games\Sid Meier's Civilization 4 Complete\Warlords\Mods\RFRE.beta1p8

    Note that for compatability reasons, someone trying to run the save may have to make a slight change to CIV4UnitClassInfos.XML located in the folder Warlords\Mods\RFRE.beta1p8\Assets\XML\Units. Regarding UNITCLASS_Worker a one must be turned into a two
    <iMaxPlayerInstances>2</iMaxPlayerInstances>
    Otherwise my game is fully compatible with the P8 that PStew released.
    ____

    EDIT: I just realized that my problem occurred on the same turn that it happened to Jakob Safa in his game. See post #691. He was playing P7 and I was playing P8, so the problem must be with either the Christian Faith technology or more likely with the python scripting that causes Gaul to rebel and gives them all those cities and units.
     

    Attached Files:

  16. Ultimate Genera

    Ultimate Genera Chieftain

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    Hi, I just started playing this mod and it seems to be even better than during Civ III. Great job!

    The year is 102 BC.

    Some questions/problems:

    1. What about the taverns? Should they create commerce or not? I don't get those 2 commerce points that the tavern info claims it should create. Same problem with the Academy I just built.

    2. Problem with the 2nd punic war, just like what Jakob Safa had. I used world builder and made Carthage my vassal, as should have happened when I destroyed the army at Zama. 3rd punic war started as expected, but didn't end when I captured Carthage. Maybe this was because of my modifications with world builder?

    3. How is the Jugurtha war represented? I got the message that Jugurtha had come to power, but I was lagging the schedule and didn't have Cirta when Jugurtha should have raided it. Is the war against Jugurtha supposed to begin automatically or do I have to declare war?

    4. New technologies have been researched every 12th turn, but when the Cimbrian war began and the info "Panic in Rome!" came, it changed the remaining turns to Sulla's Rule from 11 to 34? Should this happen?

    5. Most of the Roman units are named automatically with great latin names and unit numbers, but the Roman Legionary (second version, as there are two units with this name) are called just "Roman Legionary", not "Legio VII Italica" or something.
     
  17. Ultimate Genera

    Ultimate Genera Chieftain

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    Hi, one thing more:

    6. Problem with some buildings of which I can construct only a specific number, like Castra Hopilatorium, Castra Celtica and Ludus. When I finish the last one, like my fourth Ludus, one of those three I have already constructed, vanishes. This happens repeatedly. I guess it shouldn't be like this?
     
  18. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    It works fine. Only the Liminati can have that promo. It's the only thing that makes them useful and keeps them in place!

    They only have it when they end the turn in a limes fort.
     
  19. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    > 1. they just add commerce :/

    > 2. I ran into this as well, but changes were made that I thought would fix it... It's just a counter!

    > 3. It's not. There is a message that scrolls by about Jugertha raiding one of your cities, but it's only a message and there is no action to go with it.

    > 4. It's usually 12, but there are exceptions. Sulla is very long. "Alliance with *" are only 6 turns. The Social War only lasted 3 years, so the tech is only 1 turn. It works out.

    > 5. Easy to add ;)

    > 6 Yes, the Ludus does that :confused:

    The only thing special is that they are national wonders, and Ludus Maguns requires 4 of them. Maybe there is a bug in Warlords is triggered by this condition?
     
  20. primordial stew

    primordial stew Emperor

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    EDIT: I just realized that my problem occurred on the same turn that it happened to Jakob Safa in his game. See post #691. He was playing P7 and I was playing P8, so the problem must be with either the Christian Faith technology or more likely with the python scripting that causes Gaul to rebel and gives them all those cities and units.
    Attached Files
    File Type: civwarlordssave WTF.CivWarlordsSave (980.7 KB, 1 views)


    Nothing obvious. Whatever happen already did. Perhaps an earlier save would help?

    Also, how did you get so far ahead in techs?


    Change this setting in the Warlords version of CivilizationIV.ini:

    ; Set to 1 for no python exception popups
    HidePythonExceptions = 0


    Some of the problems you mentions in an earlier post (like no Trajan's Column) indicate some error(s) happened. With the exceptions not hidden a popup will appear if something bombs.
     

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