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[NFP] Claification of Teddy BM culture - appeal - NP - improvement dependencies

Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by enKage, Aug 10, 2020.

  1. enKage

    enKage Follower of Zoamelgustar

    Joined:
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    Łódź, PL
    To be sincere, my game has preselected leaders aiming for culture spammers, just to notice how fast I can kill them lategame only with film studios.
    There are Kongo, Rome, Persia, Russia, Ethiopia, Sweden, Pericles. Fun to watch how Greece / Kongo / Russia fight fo great works and Rome laughing at them. I was barbbanged early and did not even focus on theatres nor HS early.

    It is possible to replace starting leader with other leader just by posting starting seeds? (all standard, 7seas)
     
    Last edited: Aug 10, 2020
  2. hhhhhh

    hhhhhh Prince

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    I think if you fix the seed then the world map will be the same but you won't get the same starting location as another civ. I can be wrong about this though.
     
  3. Lily_Lancer

    Lily_Lancer Deity

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    All improvements on a tile that provides culture generates tourism after flight.
     
  4. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Warlord

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    No, it is not the case. lotrmith summarized it all:


    Coffee and Silk do not have Tourism with Flight even if it has Culture. But with Godess of Festivals / Chichen Itza / St Basil's Cathedral / Bull Moose ability / Magnificent ability, they did have Tourism.

    A Lumber Mill on rainforest inside a city with Chichen Itza has Culture but no Tourism, but a Plantation on Bananaes does have Tourism.

    There is so many exceptiosn at "All improvements on a tile that provides culture generates tourism after flight" that you can't make it a rule.
     
    lotrmith likes this.
  5. SammyKhalifa

    SammyKhalifa Deity

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    Ha, at least I no longer have to feel so bad about not knowing where exactly all my tourism numbers are coming from
     
    Equilin and tedhebert like this.
  6. Deadly Dog

    Deadly Dog Warlord

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    I checked this info against my post-flight Maori game to see if the Marae either conforms with or complicates this. Found a great screenshot where I have 3 resources providing culture. Keeping in mind this, the particluar ability of the Marae to add culture to tile yields:
    Marae description.jpg

    We can look at this screenshot in the tourism lens with 3 resources producing culture: Marble (inherent), Deer (woods feature), and Cocoa (rainforest feature):
    Spoiler :

    Tourism on plantation.jpg


    Since all unimproved woods/rainforest are yielding tourism the Marae is more or less working as expected. The lack of tourism from the deer tile I can only assume is from having an improvement on the tile, which is not stated as a condition for tourism in the Marae description. But as expected the Cocoa plantation, as it is generating culture from the Marae, gets tourism.

    EDIT: Having 2 reef tiles producing culture in my cap from the Marae confirms that it only generates tourism if unimproved. Removing the fishing poats from a turtle reef toggled that tile from having no tourism to having 1 tourism from eco-tourists.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  7. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    Consider the base Culture yield of a tile (the culture yield from the Terrain of that tile, any Feature on that tile, and any Resource on that tile). Consider the current Culture yield of a tile (the base Culture yield, plus any bonuses due to the Terrain, the Feature, or Resource).

    If a) the tile presently produces more Culture than this, and b) the tile has an improvement that can yield Culture, then c) on Flight, it produces Tourism equal to the present Culture yield minus the base culture yield (even if the improvement itself does not yield Culture).

    I think this holds true for every example I have personally observed. The fact it applies to improvements that can yield Culture is why Plantations (Goddess of Festivals) and Pastures (God of the Open Sky) work. I don't think any of the other 'ordinary' improvements would work - maybe a Seastead which sat on a water tile affected by a Natural Wonder but isn't next to a reef, although that's very specific, would trigger Tourism despite the improvement itself not providing any Culture. I may try testing this later.

    EDIT: actually an easier way to test this would be non-Culture producing Seasteads on tiles affected by Mausoleum of Halicarnassus.

    National Parks are not an improvement for these purposes.

    The only true exception of which I am actively aware is the Alcazar, which doesn't ever generate Tourism despite being able to generate Culture.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
  8. Pietato

    Pietato Emperor

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    If I build a bunch of Moai, after flight, in the 5th and 6th rings of my city, do they generate tourism?
    If I build Seaside Resorts in the 5th and 6th rings of my city, do they generate tourism?
    If the tiles can be worked, but are not, do they generate tourism?
     
    ShimmerGloom likes this.
  9. Aurelesk

    Aurelesk Warlord

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    The Alcazar generates Tourism (I had a game with the Bull Mouse just yesterday). I need to test with Natural Wonder, but I suspect to work à la Bull Mouse ability: the Culture of the tile add to the total for Tourism.

    To all tile improvements that give Tourism at Flight, they do not generate Tourism if they are outside of the workable range. The Tourism lens say they could yield Tourism, but when you watch the Tourism accumulation, it is always set at 0. But you do not need to work the tiles to have Tourism.

    The only exception is the National Park. You can put it outside the workable range and it works just fine. There is some Appeal update problem. A long time ago, all tiles in a territory that were 4 tiles away or further from any city-center have his Appeal set to 0 (or 4 for Moutain). It seems there is an evolution: the Appeal 4 tiles away is updated, but still not for 5+ tiles away.
    The tricky part: the Appeal is updated when there is a City-Center at least 4 tiles away. If you want to put a National Park between at 4 and 5 tiles away from your city-center, you can't because those at 5 tiles away are set to 0. But if you or an other civilization just settle a city near your border, the Appeal updates and you can put the National Park.
     
    Last edited: Aug 11, 2020
    Pietato likes this.
  10. CrabHelmet

    CrabHelmet King

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    Huh, they must have fixed that then. I know it didn't at one point, there's even a bug thread on here about it.

    Natural Wonders do work, can confirm that.

    I think this is therefore a true description:

    Consider the base Culture/Faith yield of a tile (the Culture/Faith yield from the Terrain of that tile, any Feature on that tile, and any Resource on that tile). Consider the current Culture/Faith yield of a tile (the base Culture/Faith yield, plus any bonuses due to buildings, Civ abilities, adjacent Natural Wonders, improvements, etc.).

    If a) the tile presently produces more Culture/Faith than the base, and b) the tile has an improvement that can yield Culture/Faith, then c) on Flight, it produces Tourism equal to the present Culture/Faith yield minus the base culture yield (even if the improvement itself does not yield Culture/Faith).

    National Parks are not considered an improvement for this purpose.
     

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