Skitters
Prince
First of all, can I thank Kael and the team for all their work on FFH2 and sharing it with us. It's caused a fair amount of sleep deprivation, but it's been very enjoyable.
This is all very raw. I don't expect any/all of this to be implemented, I just feel the need to spurt this out for discussion really!
A few nights back I had my first dabble with the Clan and I have to say I whooped with joy when I saw my first Goblin jump on the back of a wolf - what a fantastic feature! (I was though then disappointed that when a Goblin scout defeated a Giant Spider it didn't automatically convert it into a Spider riding Hero!)
Well anyhow, it's been stewing on me, and I've been wondering whether perhaps the Clan could have a separate approach to research.
Now I've never really played D&D, so I must confess that I may have a Warhammer-centric opinion on Orcs, and I suspect that this may be partly influenced by the approach Dawn of War (Warhammer 40k game) takes with Da Orks.
The basis is that there wouldn't be research as such, but there would be something akin to Waaagghhh (or should that be "Bhaaaagghhll"...)- perhaps broken down into say 7 stages (I read something elsewhere that FFH2 is all about 3,7 and 21 so why not fit in with that?!).
This would pretty much be a linear path, with each stage opening up a batch of buildings/units/improvements. So the first stage may be the equivalent of Agriculture, Crafting, Exploration and Hunting in one bulk mass research project.
However, just researching a stage in itself wouldnt be enough to open up all new units or buildings that *can* become available. Instead once a stage is complete it means new units, buildings, improvements, rituals can be opened up by event. So if we take the Wolf Rider example, it is that event (perhaps coupled with getting a Wolf Rider back to a city and creating a wolf pen) that opens up access of Wolf Riders for the Clan. For an improvement
The way I see, apart from an initial batch of Goblins plus an Orc and perhaps a nerfed Rantine, actual unit construction would be pretty expensive. But the Waagghhh would have a secondary effect of drawing Goblins, Orcs, and later Ogres/(Trolls?!) to the Clan, who upon entering/nearing Clan cultural borders would have a chance of converting to the cause.
For this the Waaagghhh would work something like that it expands x amount of squares beyond the cultural borders (with the exception of other nations cultural borders/across oceans)....with each step up in Waagghhh expanding it further until perhaps Orcs across the whole playable map are drawn to the Clans. If an Orc race unit is within this waaagghzone (so to speak) then there is a x% chance they will try to move towards the Clan culture and have a chance to flip to the Clans cause (the greater chance the closer to Clan Cultural borders they are). If they are outside it, or are on a different continent they will go about their business as normal. This influence should perhaps stop if the Barbarians go to war with the Clan (otherwise the AI will likely have the Barbs feeding the Clans new units despite being at war with them)
At a later stage in the game, because there is a chance that Barb cities will have been ransacked and/or the Barbs will be at war with them, Clan towns/*insert new Orcish improvement here* would have a chance to spawn basic Orcs or Goblins.
These would be the basic units, so a Goblin scout could then visit a city with a wolfpen and upgrade to a wolf rider.
For the Waaagghhh .I kind of invision it being pretty slow research (itd have to be considering that one Stage could unlock the equivalent of several other techs in one go). This could be perhaps be influenced by some buildings in Clan cities, but I was thinking that combat would actually be the prime driver (as opposed to a slider bar).
Another thought/example of how it could be applied
Reaching Stage 1 releases Hunting but rather than have Lizardmen available, and rather than building a Hunter, the Clan would make The Saurus Pact which would be a ritual that upon completion would spawn 1-5 Lizardmen (perhaps weighted to 3) and would have a growing % chance of spawning additional Lizardman(/men) afterwards- ie; so for example in turn 1, 3 Lizardmen would arrive when the Pact is initially created and then in turn 2 there would be a 5% chance of another unit spawning, 10% in turn 3 etc so that by 21 turns a new Lizardman will have spawned and the counter starts again.
Orc race unit on a vineyard could trigger an event dese berries tastes good boss opens up Wine. Orc unit on a Copper/Iron/Mithril resource Ere, wat dat shiny bit?! - opening up weapon upgrades.
Whilst the linear research would in some ways be limiting, and would push the Clan player down the war route, I think a haphazard manner on the number and type of units they would get would give a player something to think about.
As i said its all pretty raw, and would presumably involve a hell of a lot of coding, and would be a balancing nightmare.
If you got this far - thanks for reading!
This is all very raw. I don't expect any/all of this to be implemented, I just feel the need to spurt this out for discussion really!
A few nights back I had my first dabble with the Clan and I have to say I whooped with joy when I saw my first Goblin jump on the back of a wolf - what a fantastic feature! (I was though then disappointed that when a Goblin scout defeated a Giant Spider it didn't automatically convert it into a Spider riding Hero!)
Well anyhow, it's been stewing on me, and I've been wondering whether perhaps the Clan could have a separate approach to research.
Now I've never really played D&D, so I must confess that I may have a Warhammer-centric opinion on Orcs, and I suspect that this may be partly influenced by the approach Dawn of War (Warhammer 40k game) takes with Da Orks.
The basis is that there wouldn't be research as such, but there would be something akin to Waaagghhh (or should that be "Bhaaaagghhll"...)- perhaps broken down into say 7 stages (I read something elsewhere that FFH2 is all about 3,7 and 21 so why not fit in with that?!).
This would pretty much be a linear path, with each stage opening up a batch of buildings/units/improvements. So the first stage may be the equivalent of Agriculture, Crafting, Exploration and Hunting in one bulk mass research project.
However, just researching a stage in itself wouldnt be enough to open up all new units or buildings that *can* become available. Instead once a stage is complete it means new units, buildings, improvements, rituals can be opened up by event. So if we take the Wolf Rider example, it is that event (perhaps coupled with getting a Wolf Rider back to a city and creating a wolf pen) that opens up access of Wolf Riders for the Clan. For an improvement
The way I see, apart from an initial batch of Goblins plus an Orc and perhaps a nerfed Rantine, actual unit construction would be pretty expensive. But the Waagghhh would have a secondary effect of drawing Goblins, Orcs, and later Ogres/(Trolls?!) to the Clan, who upon entering/nearing Clan cultural borders would have a chance of converting to the cause.
For this the Waaagghhh would work something like that it expands x amount of squares beyond the cultural borders (with the exception of other nations cultural borders/across oceans)....with each step up in Waagghhh expanding it further until perhaps Orcs across the whole playable map are drawn to the Clans. If an Orc race unit is within this waaagghzone (so to speak) then there is a x% chance they will try to move towards the Clan culture and have a chance to flip to the Clans cause (the greater chance the closer to Clan Cultural borders they are). If they are outside it, or are on a different continent they will go about their business as normal. This influence should perhaps stop if the Barbarians go to war with the Clan (otherwise the AI will likely have the Barbs feeding the Clans new units despite being at war with them)
At a later stage in the game, because there is a chance that Barb cities will have been ransacked and/or the Barbs will be at war with them, Clan towns/*insert new Orcish improvement here* would have a chance to spawn basic Orcs or Goblins.
These would be the basic units, so a Goblin scout could then visit a city with a wolfpen and upgrade to a wolf rider.
For the Waaagghhh .I kind of invision it being pretty slow research (itd have to be considering that one Stage could unlock the equivalent of several other techs in one go). This could be perhaps be influenced by some buildings in Clan cities, but I was thinking that combat would actually be the prime driver (as opposed to a slider bar).
Another thought/example of how it could be applied
Reaching Stage 1 releases Hunting but rather than have Lizardmen available, and rather than building a Hunter, the Clan would make The Saurus Pact which would be a ritual that upon completion would spawn 1-5 Lizardmen (perhaps weighted to 3) and would have a growing % chance of spawning additional Lizardman(/men) afterwards- ie; so for example in turn 1, 3 Lizardmen would arrive when the Pact is initially created and then in turn 2 there would be a 5% chance of another unit spawning, 10% in turn 3 etc so that by 21 turns a new Lizardman will have spawned and the counter starts again.
Orc race unit on a vineyard could trigger an event dese berries tastes good boss opens up Wine. Orc unit on a Copper/Iron/Mithril resource Ere, wat dat shiny bit?! - opening up weapon upgrades.
Whilst the linear research would in some ways be limiting, and would push the Clan player down the war route, I think a haphazard manner on the number and type of units they would get would give a player something to think about.
As i said its all pretty raw, and would presumably involve a hell of a lot of coding, and would be a balancing nightmare.
If you got this far - thanks for reading!
).
