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Clan of embers...how a wolf rider sends you off on a tangent

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Fall from Heaven' started by Skitters, Jul 8, 2008.

  1. Skitters

    Skitters Prince

    Aug 14, 2006
    Birmingham, UK
    First of all, can I thank Kael and the team for all their work on FFH2 and sharing it with us. It's caused a fair amount of sleep deprivation, but it's been very enjoyable.

    This is all very raw. I don't expect any/all of this to be implemented, I just feel the need to spurt this out for discussion really!

    A few nights back I had my first dabble with the Clan and I have to say I whooped with joy when I saw my first Goblin jump on the back of a wolf - what a fantastic feature! (I was though then disappointed that when a Goblin scout defeated a Giant Spider it didn't automatically convert it into a Spider riding Hero!)

    Well anyhow, it's been stewing on me, and I've been wondering whether perhaps the Clan could have a separate approach to research.

    Now I've never really played D&D, so I must confess that I may have a Warhammer-centric opinion on Orcs, and I suspect that this may be partly influenced by the approach Dawn of War (Warhammer 40k game) takes with Da Orks.

    The basis is that there wouldn't be research as such, but there would be something akin to Waaagghhh (or should that be "Bhaaaagghhll"...)- perhaps broken down into say 7 stages (I read something elsewhere that FFH2 is all about 3,7 and 21 so why not fit in with that?!).

    This would pretty much be a linear path, with each stage opening up a batch of buildings/units/improvements. So the first stage may be the equivalent of Agriculture, Crafting, Exploration and Hunting in one bulk mass research project.

    However, just researching a stage in itself wouldn’t be enough to open up all new units or buildings that *can* become available. Instead once a stage is complete it means new units, buildings, improvements, rituals can be opened up by event. So if we take the Wolf Rider example, it is that event (perhaps coupled with getting a Wolf Rider back to a city and creating a wolf pen) that opens up access of Wolf Riders for the Clan. For an improvement

    The way I see, apart from an initial batch of Goblins plus an Orc and perhaps a nerfed Rantine, actual unit construction would be pretty expensive. But the Waagghhh would have a secondary effect of drawing Goblins, Orcs, and later Ogres/(Trolls?!) to the Clan, who upon entering/nearing Clan cultural borders would have a chance of converting to the cause.

    For this the Waaagghhh would work something like that it expands x amount of squares beyond the cultural borders (with the exception of other nations cultural borders/across oceans)....with each step up in Waagghhh expanding it further until perhaps Orcs across the whole playable map are drawn to the Clans. If an Orc race unit is within this ‘waaagghzone’ (so to speak) then there is a x% chance they will try to move towards the Clan culture and have a chance to flip to the Clan’s cause (the greater chance the closer to Clan Cultural borders they are). If they are outside it, or are on a different continent they will go about their business as normal. This influence should perhaps stop if the Barbarians go to war with the Clan (otherwise the AI will likely have the Barbs feeding the Clans new units despite being at war with them)

    At a later stage in the game, because there is a chance that Barb cities will have been ransacked and/or the Barbs will be at war with them, Clan towns/*insert new Orcish improvement here* would have a chance to spawn basic Orcs or Goblins.

    These would be the basic units, so a Goblin scout could then visit a city with a wolfpen and upgrade to a wolf rider.

    For the Waaagghhh….I kind of invision it being pretty slow ‘research’ (it’d have to be considering that one Stage could unlock the equivalent of several other techs in one go). This could be perhaps be influenced by some buildings in Clan cities, but I was thinking that combat would actually be the prime driver (as opposed to a slider bar).

    Another thought/example of how it could be applied –
    Reaching Stage 1 releases Hunting – but rather than have Lizardmen available, and rather than building a Hunter, the Clan would make “The Saurus Pact” which would be a ritual that upon completion would spawn 1-5 Lizardmen (perhaps weighted to 3) and would have a growing % chance of spawning additional Lizardman(/men) afterwards- ie; so for example in turn 1, 3 Lizardmen would arrive when the Pact is initially created and then in turn 2 there would be a 5% chance of another unit spawning, 10% in turn 3 etc so that by 21 turns a new Lizardman will have spawned…and the counter starts again.

    Orc race unit on a vineyard could trigger an event “’dese berries tastes good boss – opens up Wine. Orc unit on a Copper/Iron/Mithril resource “Ere, wat dat shiny bit?!” - opening up weapon upgrades.

    Whilst the linear research would in some ways be limiting, and would push the Clan player down the war route, I think a haphazard manner on the number and type of units they would get would give a player something to think about.

    As i said its all pretty raw, and would presumably involve a hell of a lot of coding, and would be a balancing nightmare.

    If you got this far - thanks for reading!
  2. Blackmantle

    Blackmantle King

    Mar 15, 2008
    Berlin, Europe
    There is a Warhammer-Mod out there based on an FFH2 Core (and parts of the FFH2 team are part of their team as well.). And im sure it might be a more fitting idea there than here (also they sure apreciate any ideas im sure. Having not all so much players as FFH 2).

    FFH2 Orcs are not all that typical standart orcs or Warhammer ones. (At least in regards to the Clan. With Barbs beeing nonplayable.)

    Doviello might be more comparable to what you layed out here and they more badly need an overhaul (which is allready discussed here and there.)
  3. Baron Von Noob

    Baron Von Noob Chieftain

    Jun 27, 2008
    One of the great things with FFH is that you can really role-play your games any way you want to, and that pretty much anything is possible (with the exception of religion for the Grigori and sanity for Perpentach :) ).

    You can play a game where Sheelba decides to join the Overcouncil and work for world peace, or the orcs join forces with the RoK dwarves. You can decide your orcs will be mages and go for the Tower of Mastery victory, or just go warmongering against anyone you can.

    Your ideas are interesting, but I feel they could make playing the orcs pretty boring in the long run. There's a huge pleasure in unlocking units-buildings-civics, etc. relatively often, through tech research or trading, and I'd feel cheated if I got everything in seven very long research levels without having the choice of where I'm heading.

    My two cents anyway :)
  4. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

    Aug 21, 2006
    Ft. Lauderdale
    I agree with the Baron.

    I had a great game the other day as the Empyreum Clan, and united the world in a great web of diplomacy... (except for Hyborem and Charadon)
  5. Tarquelne

    Tarquelne Follower of Tytalus

    Dec 8, 2001
    Da punkz 'ere 'r no gud. Sissy orkz! Barely green. Gobbos too. Meeb wif' a gud moddo dey be grots, heh!

    Clan gud f'r smakkin humies an' eld'r an' dat. But da real boyz got der own in da Waaaghammer mod.
  6. Ksi

    Ksi Warlord

    Jan 1, 2008
    Dakka Dakka Dakka !

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