[NFP] Classical Era Policy Elimination Thread

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Vizurok

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Since @Baigan , who posted the previous Policy Elimination Thread is not around this time for the sequel thread, I have jumped in to kickstart another discussion, this time about the Classical policy cards.
There might be some arguements for including special cards such as Dark Age policies, Dramatic dedication cards or even Legacy cards, but I think that the most precise and straightforward way is to limit ourselves to the cards that actually appear on the civic tree in any given era.

In this post, you will find more information on the elimination thread, so if you are looking for the policy list, do proceed to the next post.

I reckon that the considerations listed in the previous thread are just as relevant as earlier, so I would recommend thinking about the following questions before voting:
  • When/where in the Civics tree is the policy unlocked?
  • How frequently and for how long do you use the policy?
  • Is the policy an auto-include in your government or is it situational?
  • How long does the policy last before it becomes obsolete?
  • How good is the policy relative to its competition? (Military to Military, Economic to Economic, etc.)
  • Is the policy an universal solution or geared towards a specific victory type?
The rules are as usual:
  • Each post should contain one downvote (-3 points) and one upvote (+1 point).
  • Votes must have a corresponding explanation.
  • You may vote once every 24 hours.
  • When a Policy reaches 0 or fewer points it is eliminated and should be removed by the next poster.
  • No particular victory type or civilization is assumed.
  • Game and map settings are left at default, NFP games modes are disabled.
  • Continous up/downvoting of a given policy by the same user should be avoided.
  • Please do not add non-voting posts to the thread as they are subject to removal.
A quick list of recent elimination threads can be found below:

NFP Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/ancient-era-policy-elimination-thread.667807/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...mination-victories-elimination-thread.664641/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/sneak-peek-at-composite-victory-type-rankings-so-far.661225/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/cultural-victory-elimination-thread-no-ss.661203/page-16
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/city-states-elimination-thread.660516/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/religious-victory-elimination-thread.659828/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/domination-victory-elimination-thread.658838/

Previous Gathering Storm Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/thre...he-hands-of-the-ai-elimination-thread.656981/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/music-theme-elimination-thread.651945/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/diplomatic-victory-elimination-thread.650579/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civ-unique-ability-elimination-thread.648643/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/gathering-storm-leader-ability-elimination-thread.649233/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.647892/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/science-victory-gs-elimination-thread.654506/

Before GS Elimination Threads
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/civilization-ability-elimination-thread.639612/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/leader-ability-elimination-thread.637762/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-unit-elimination-thread.631713/
https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/unique-infrastructure-elimination-thread.638688/
 
Here's the alphabetical list of the twelve polices unlocked in the Classical Era:
  • Bastions: +6 City Defense Strength, +5 City Ranged Strength (Military | Defensive Tactics)
  • Charismatic Leader: +2 influence points per turn. (Diplomatic | Political Philosophy)
  • Diplomatic League: The first envoy you send to each city-state counts as 2 envoys. (Diplomatic | Political Philosophy)
  • Equestrian Orders: All improved Horses and Iron resources yield 1 additional resource per turn. (Military | Military Training)
  • Insulae: +1 Housing in all cities with at least 2 specialty districts. (Economic | Games and Recreation)
  • Limes: +100% Production towards defensive buildings (Military | Defensive Tactics)
  • Literary Tradition: +2 Great Writer points per turn. (Wildcard | Drama and Poetry)
  • Natural Philosophy: +100% Campus district adjacency bonuses. (Economic | Recorded History)
  • Praeteroium: Governors provide +2 Loyalty per turn to their city. (Diplomatic | Recorded History)
  • Raid: Yields gained from pillaging are doubled for pillaging improvements. (Military | Military Training)
  • Scripture: +100% Holy Site district adjacency bonuses. (Economic | Theology)
  • Veterancy: +30% Production towards Encampment districts, Harbor districts, and buildings for those districts (Military | Military Tranining)
The voting template for the kind consideration of the first voter:

Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (15)
Equestrian Orders (15)
Insulae (15)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (15)
Natural Philosophy (15)
Praetorium (15)
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (15)

And finally, the leaderboard (to be filled as the thread progresses)
1. Natural Philosophy
2. Scripture (Turn 87)
3. Veterancy (Turn 83)
4. Diplomatic League (Turn 65)
5. Raid (Turn 58)
6. Limes (Turn 52)
7. Charismatic Leader (Turn 37)
8. Bastions (Turn 32)
9. Literary Tradition (Turn 22)
10. Equestrian Orders (Turn 19)
11. Praetorium (Turn 13)
12. Insulae (Turn 10)
 
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Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (15)
Equestrian Orders (12) 15-3
Insulae (15)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (15)
Natural Philosophy (16) 15+1
Praetorium (15)
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (15)

Thanks for setting this up.

It is rare that I don't want to double my campus adjacencies (natural philosophy) and equally rare that I don't have enough horses or iron if I have any at all (equestrian orders)
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (16) (15+1) - Very useful card to slot in a not very contested diplomacy card slot. Will help you get those early Suzerain points faster, and stays relevant long if you play on continents and similar maps.
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (15)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12) (15-3) - I'm not as strongly against the +2 person cards that some members seem to be according to the other thread (I regularly use both the +2 prophet and scientist card), but this one seems to me really hard to justify. To have any use of Great Writers, you need to build Theatre Squares and Amphiteatres, which will then already earn you GW points, and at least as game has developed over the last 6 months, they are not that hotly contested anyway.
Natural Philosophy (16)
Praetorium (15)
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (15)
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17) I want Charismatic Leader plugged in most of the time, but when you have the opportunity slot this for a couple of turns and souz a couple of CS, the benefits are massive.
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (15)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (16)
Praetorium (12) The only completely worthless card. Never enough to make a difference.
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (15)
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (15)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (16)
Praetorium (9) (12-3) Agree with the above post. It might help you retain your captured city for 1 more turn, but that is usually not worth slotting this for ~10 turns.
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (16) (15+1) I'm a big fan of harbors and of building different stuffs in general, and this is the Red (!) card that helps building those while not taking a yellow slot.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (12) (15-3)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (16)
Praetorium (9)
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (17) (16+1)

Veterancy (17) (16+1) Wholeheartedly agree with the previous poster. I predict the top 3 for this round will be something like Natural Philosophy, Raid and maybe Scripture, but I'd like to give early recognition to Veterancy which is, I reckon, my most used military card. I've never bothered to calculate, but I imagine it must save me 1000s of hammers on average each game. There is a strong case to be made that Harbors are the best district after Campuses (gold, food, trade routes, housing, production – Harbors grant all these yields), and Veterancy provides a universal production boost not only to the Harbor itself but also to any building within the Harbor. Icing on the cake is that it also applies to Encampments, which is very useful for domination games.

Insulae (12) (15-3) Personally, I think this should be eliminated first. If you've already got two districts, that implies your city is stuck at population 4 or 5; so how would +1 housing really help in this situation? (You need 7 pop for your next district). Just build a Granary or Aqueduct if you're really that bothered, or use Serfdom to spam out a bunch of builders for Farms/Plantations/Fishing Boats, etc; but do not waste one of your hugely valuable economic (or wildcard) slots on this inefficient policy card.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (9 (12-3)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (17) (16+1)
Praetorium (9)
Raid (15)
Scripture (15)
Veterancy (17)

Insulae: I’ve often thought it should be “+1 housing per speciality district”. That would scale nicely as the game progresses and actually have an impact. But “+1 housing and that’s it” is just trash, for the reasons Drivinggrevilo explained

Natural Philosophy: is there really any argument here? The meta of Civ 6 rewards science generation; and Campuses are the easiest districts to get high adjacency on, which makes this card all the more powerful.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (6) (9-3)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (17)
Praetorium (9)
Raid (15)
Scripture (16) (15+1)
Veterancy (17)

Scripture (16) (15+1) As some fine policy cards already got an upvote, I'll push this one up. This one has a situational aspect, however, if you get a couple or even three good HS and get a Golden Age, you can pull off some explosive expansion with Monumentality during either of the eras: Classical or Medieval, o even both. This card can continue to serve even later and may be fit for other purposes too, as faith is a pretty good currency to spread your religion, buy out Great People, or buy buildings and units with respective choices made.

Insulae (6) (9-3) This one is truly baffling, as for 'why?'. +1 housing, and you must have 2 districts. From higher difficulties perspective, this is an offer you just can't take. Your first cities are probably close to fresh water anyway, there's a granary to help if needed, and cities with 2 districts that early are thin on the ground. And when you start comparing this with competing cards, the case for this card is utterly hopeless. Imo, this one is the worst in this list. Praetorium at least can give you a turn or two of breathing space, and a lot can happen in a turn or two. Praetorium may seem insignificant or rarely useful, but when you have to use it, it can save you. I have used Praetorium, but I have never ever felt the need to give this card a shot. Neither in Classical (just no way), nor later.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (6)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (18) (17+1)
Praetorium (6) (9-3)
Raid (15)
Scripture (16)
Veterancy (17)

Natural Philosophy (+1) - Gives massive amounts of the best yield in the game. Very often used all the way until ideology.

Praetorium (-3) - Loyalty bonuses tend to suck and this is no different. One big issue with the +X loyalty bonuses is that they are only useful for very specific levels of loyalty.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (3) -downvote
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (18)
Praetorium (6)
Raid (16) upvote
Scripture (16)
Veterancy (17)

Insulae -Totally useless, esp as economic policy
Raid - Love slotting it in as I prepare to go to war
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (12)
Insulae (0) 3-3. Eliminated. The opportunity cost to get the 2 districts just for +1 total housing is not great.
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (18)
Praetorium (6)
Raid (16)
Scripture (17) 16+1 If we’re allowed to consider beliefs, this pairs well with Work Ethic. Regardless, it’s great for faith civs, or monumentality Golden Ages.
Veterancy (17)

Edited to reflect previous vote.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (9) (12-3)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (19) (18+1)
Praetorium (6)
Raid (16)
Scripture (17)
Veterancy (17)

Natural Philosophy - I’m going to jump on the bandwagon for both of my card picks. 100% Adjacency cards are easy picks. The only strike against it is if you don’t have mountains/vents/reefs near your starting location.

Equestrian Orders - Situationally useful, but only maybe to get some horses or spears out sooner. The cards like Agoge are probably better picks to run, since resource limitations are less of a bottleneck than production after the first few turns of improving.
 
Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (9)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (20) (19+1)
Praetorium (3) (6-3)

Raid (16)
Scripture (17)
Veterancy (17)

Praetorium: This should have gone before Insulae. Who actually installs this useless card? You won't have enough Governor Titles at this point in the game to justify this.

Edit: So @kaspergm has pointed out one of my arguments doesn't really hold water well, so I'll concede and say that it was not the best I could have made. Still say it should have gone before Insulae, though.

Natural Philosophy: Who doesn't like extra Science? Not me. :p
 
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Bastions (15)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (17)
Equestrian Orders (9)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (20)
Praetorium (0) (3-3)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18) (17+1)
Veterancy (17)

Praetorium is nearly useless, so I am glad to eliminate it. Governor already gives loyalty as noted by Duke, and plus 2 isn’t likely to make a difference.

Scripture otoh can be monstrous if done right - pantheon/high adjacency hs and work ethic.
 
Bastions (16) (15+1) Probably won't stick around for too long but has definitely saved my tail on multiple occasions so I'll give it a little love.
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (14) (17-3) This is a good effect and all but how many turns are you actually keeping this slotted? This is the classic "put in for one turn to take advantage of it and then never use it again" card. I think it's overrated.
Equestrian Orders (9)
Limes (15)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (20)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)
 
Bastions (16)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (14)
Equestrian Orders (6)
Limes (16)
Literary Tradition (12)
Natural Philosophy (20)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)

Equestrian Orders (9 - 3) This is a very confusing card. It makes up an additional 1/3 of your resources, however ... I never find myself in a situation where this is useful. Usually these resouces bank up to limit and are spent fast on upgrades, but I never use it for a continuous unit creation line. I pretty much never slotted it in.
Limes (15 + 1) hands on the best production card. Good to get the more expensive walls up. Worse than Valetta ability, but supreme with the City centre bonus production AI apparently loves at world congresses.

I also wanted to add that Insulae is incomparably worse than Praetorium, so it's good they went in this order. Praetorium helps in those nifty borderline cases, while Insulae is very hard to track and also limiting. Not many cities have two districts already at the time, and the effect is underwhelming.
 
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Bastions (16)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (14)
Equestrian Orders (6)
Limes (17) (+1 - +100% production is huge and walls are incredibly important to save my skin from barbs and hostile neighbors. Unlocking this policy is always a priority for me so I can put up walls in all my cities.)
Literary Tradition (9) (-3 - I've definitely never used this one. In the rare cases where I use the bonus GPP cards it is because there is a specific great person (engineer, scientist, merchant) with a nice ability I want. Writers are interchangable and I am rarely seeking them out this early. Plus a flat +2 is pretty useless (though I do like the new later era policy cards that scale by number of workshops, etc), and writers are usually the last thing I need for a cultural victory.)
Natural Philosophy (20)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)
 
Bastions (16 - 3 = 16) Even if I am suddenly under attack, I haven't necessarily built walls or have a civic completion coming up. I'd rather just buy a new unit than buy a civic change, anyway
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (14 + 1 = 15) Lots of free Envoys, and I only have to slot this in for a moment each time. That lets me avoid Diplomacy slots entirely, which is great earlier in the game!
Equestrian Orders (6)
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (9)
Natural Philosophy (20)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)
 
Bastions (16 - 3 = 16)
lol, i fixed it :p
---

Bastions (13)
Charismatic Leader (15)
Diplomatic League (15)
Equestrian Orders (3) (6-3)
Limes (17)
Literary Tradition (9)
Natural Philosophy (21) (20+1)
Raid (16)
Scripture (18)
Veterancy (17)


Equestrian Orders - I've never found this card to be useful. I always seem to either have none at all (no source), or plenty. Perhaps the card should read "Get two of Horse and Iron per turn if you do not own those resources. Lose 4 gold per turn." Or something like that, I don't know.

Natural Philosophy - Easy upvote. I don't feel like thinking much right now.
 
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