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[RD] Clinton vs. Trump - USA Presidential race.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by onejayhawk, Mar 23, 2016.

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  1. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Yeah, I don't know what "digging" the media is not supposed to do. The dirt on Trump isn't exactly buried somewhere. It's pretty much right there in plain view, in the debates, in the rallies. They don't exactly have to go out and find sexual assault victims--the victims find them.
     
  2. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    Well, they've not really pressed him on any of his policies. Like I said, I've never seen a real discussion regarding Chinese currency manipulation.
     
  3. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    This has been one to me maddening dimension of Trump and the coverage of Trump. All he has as policies are really 1) descriptions of a problem and/or 2) slogans. And he is never made to go beyond that level of responding to issues. He's never made to because he can just exhaust the questioner by continuing to give answers that keep things on this same level of generality. I feel certain that he doesn't go any deeper because he can't--he simply hasn't thought about things beyond the level of seeing some problem and uttering a slogan, or swinging back to some factoid that illustrates the existence of the problem.

    We're going to repeal and replace Obamacare with something terrific.

    We're going to totally renegotiate NAFTA. Well, what specific provisions of NAFTA and how in particular? It's been a disaster; jobs are pouring out of this country.

    Drives me nuts.
     
  4. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    It shouldn't drive you nuts. He is allowed to get away with this precisely because his supporters don't care that he doesn't have any real plans or policies. They aren't voting for the policies, they aren't voting for the substance, because they are fully aware that there is none, and they don't care. Pressing him pn policy positions is a waste of time... he doesn't have any and everyone knows it.

    The polling bears out that a substantial majority of Trump voters just flat out hate Hillary and that is why they are voting for Trump. No amount of making Trump look bad will persuade them, because Trump the candidate is irrelevant. They will vote against Hillary no matter the opponent.

    I'm convinced that at this point, everyone who can be persuaded not to vote for Trump on policy related grounds has already been persuaded. The remaining folks on the fence are just waiting to be absolutely sure that Hillary will be the favourite, and then they will make a "Hillary to cover/not cover" or "underdog (Trump) outright" bet with their vote. The winners celebrate at work on Wednesday with the other winners. The losers hide in their cubicles and grumble that "I didn't really want Trump win, I was just protesting cause I knew I could get away with it" or "I never said that I was specifically for Trump, I just said I was against Hillary" or "These things are decided by the Illuminati anyway, votes don't matter, its all rigged" or "I always knew Hillary was gonna win" etc...
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  5. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    If the media presses him on policy, he accuses the media of being biased and walks out on the interview. Or disinvites them from the press room.
     
  6. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I'd like to see an interview where they didn't rabbit hole him off the bat, and actually pushed him.
     
  7. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    You cannot have it BOTH WAYS.
    The US has lost manufacturing jobs but has gained increase in trade by 41% including US Argiculture.
    I suspect that those manufacturing jobs would be lost probably at a slower rate without Nafta and Republicans would then find something else to blame. FTA with Canada and Mexico is realtively small part of the total US economy.

     
  8. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    Manufacturing jobs will be lost regardless of NAFTA or not, whether to other countries or to machines, many manufacturing jobs are just going the way of the Buffalo.
     
  9. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I'll sit with you

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    Impossible...he gets rabbit-holed, precisely because he wants to be rabbit-holed... he does not want to stay on any one coherent subject, because his knowledge is too shallow. He is so lacking on every substantive topic, that he literally has no choice but to bounce from one rambling word salad to the next..

    Trying to push Trump to give you substance is like trying to push a stone to give you blood, you can squeeze and squeeze and chop and chisel and hammer... there is just nothing there to get.
     
  10. Kennigit

    Kennigit proud 2 boxer

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    all the manufacturing jobs was lost 2001-2008. Was NAFTA that much of a lagging impact (1994)?

    Honest question, I don't know.

    http://data.bls.gov/pdq/SurveyOutputServlet

    edit: link isn't loading but it would be series CES3000000001 on labor statistics.
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  11. mrt144

    mrt144 Deity

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    If it does, then LOL at anyone believing in quick fixes.
     
  12. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I don't think so. I watched some interviews, and there were more than a few times where he just gets out-maneuvered into talking about his idiocy, when he keeps trying to pivot towards something real. Now, maybe he has nothing. We both believe so. But I don't think that all of the rabbit holes are his choosing ... he's not that smart.
     
  13. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    You'll need to screenshot. BLS links expire
     
  14. FriendlyFire

    FriendlyFire Codex WMDicanious

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    The US had at its peak 17 Mil manufacturing jobs its down to around 8 Mil now
    What Republicans have to understand is that the manufacturing jobs lost were primary low skilled one, such as clothing, furniture and electronics. The other side is Industrial such as steel, coal and paper arent coming back unless the US dollar collapses because its cheaper to import materials with the strong US currency.

    If it were not for the Japanese buying up and then restructuring / modernizing US manufacturing with Japanese standards US manufacturing would have tanked even faster, those job would have gone to Japan
    Which is ironic since Republicans whipped up hatred against the Japanese and blame them like a convenient scrape goat
     
  15. Gori the Grey

    Gori the Grey The Poster

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    I know this. In fact, I think these are central tenets in the Gori the Grey Field Guide to Trump and All Things Trumpian. In fact, I think I once went even further. Not that he has no policies, but that he's running against policies as such. Policies are the kind of thing politicians have. And it's politicians and their policies that have gotten us into this utter disaster that the entire United States of America fundamentally is. You don't want policies. You want me. I get things done.

    I can fully understand this and still be maddened by it.

    It doesn't take smarts. He's got an instinct for it. It's his reality-show training. He knows you can always get people talking with the outrageous comments that get people talking. So he says one of those.
     
  16. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    That is a partly frivolous argument. Manufacturing jobs became higher skilled as productivity increased. The question is, which is the cart and which is the horse? Bringing the Japanese is only partly accurate. The Germans were equally involved and the whole far East to a lesser extent.

    Back to the point of the thread, Trump seems to have chosen attacking the ACA as the horse to ride during the last two weeks. It has not thrown him, but neither is the gap closing noticeably.

    J
     
    Last edited: Oct 26, 2016
  17. Lexicus

    Lexicus Deity

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    Come now, as a lawyer (you are a lawyer, no?) you're surely aware that committing a crime and proving a crime was committed are two very different things. Since virtually everyone commits crimes it stretches belief to suggest Clinton and her 'machine' (in jay's phrase, I'm not at all sure what he means by it) are exceptions.
     
  18. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    I know it makes a good story, a good narrative. But we have to remember that the interviewers are smarter than him. And he's an entertaining clown.



    Watch this one. Try to figure out if Wolf is playing him, or if Trump is fooling Wolf into "rabbit holing" him.
     
  19. El_Machinae

    El_Machinae Colour vision since 2018 Retired Moderator

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    It might work. It's a good horse to ride. He might make some gaffes that prevent it from being a real swing opportunity for him.
     
  20. Takhisis

    Takhisis Jinping, wer fragt uns?

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    up yours!
    Also, why is NAFTA bad, how does it affect the USA (negatively, positively, both?), why and how would the proposed changes benefit the US?
     
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