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[RD] Clinton vs. Trump - USA Presidential race.

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by onejayhawk, Mar 23, 2016.

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  1. Thedrin

    Thedrin Deity

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    Here's an article from one of the people involved:
    https://medium.com/@jhalderm/want-t...d-look-at-the-ballots-c61a6113b0ba#.crbqr41tg
    He's not saying that fraud is the most likely reason for the surprise election result, but he is saying that it hasn't been ruled out despite the ability existing to rule it out.

    You do like describing computer experts as supposed or with excess quotation marks.
     
  2. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Written like an advocate. I am sure there are other advocates that would take issue.

    Regardless, Adrienler is arguing that strongly restricting weapons is self-evidently correct. His argument is one of policy, not law. I am pointing out that the law is quite different.

    Hence the massive restriction on the ability to ban guns.

    There is an old dictum: If the 2nd Amendment were interpreted like the 6th, everyone would be required to own guns.

    J
     
    Last edited: Nov 24, 2016
  3. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    It's the only argument available, so it gets used. I think you will get a very careful count, finalizing next week. There is usually an adjustment, but rarely a large one. This would need to be very large. For all the fuss over the 2000 Florida vote, an extremely careful recount confirmed the original decision, even enlarged the margin. I expect more of the same.

    J
     
  4. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    There was actually a gun ownership mandate from the 1st Congress, very similar to the health insurance mandate. Of course, there were still outright bans to certain segments of the population, even post-Constitution. Infringements have always been tolerated and encouraged despite the language of the 2nd.
     
  5. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    While I dont think she should contest the vote, there is no doubt in my mind that something has to be done about it. I am rather surprised that no such thing as counting or auditing the paper ballots is done. While of course the whole point of computer voting is to render paper vote counting redundant, some degree of redundancy is necessary to safeguard the integrity of the ballot.
     
  6. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd Rest in Peace Black Panther

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    No. No. War. War. The latter. I made a correction... I honestly don't know whether she should or should not challenge... letting something like that slide seems dangerous in other more longterm ways... but I am thinking she wouldn't regardless. She's not that kind of politician. Bernie might have, Trump might have, Hillary, I think not. I tend to agree with the rest of your analysis, and I told my wife as much when she told me about this.
     
  7. JohannaK

    JohannaK Heroically Clueless

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    I mean vote fraud cannot be let pass, even if it is a blow to legitimacy, because it should be, fraud is extremely serious and if you are willing to let it pass to preserve the Republic, when the next election comes you might find that there is no Republic to be preserved any more.

    Now I do agree that contesting the results would only aggravate the divide in America and in this case there is no substantial proof beyond very weak statistical correlation that disappears when controlled for other variables, but it would be good to implement some policies that minimize the possibilities of vote tampering as outlined in the previously shared article.
     
  8. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Imo all election voting should be done with paper ballots. You can never safeguard against cyber attacks anyway, if the price is high enough.
    At least with paper you can have various people counting, or safeguard in other manner (overseeing specific people doing the counting).
     
  9. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    The first part: Yes, certainly. The second? Not at all. American people to me seem like some of the most docile folks on this planet. America is one of the last countries I see fighting a Civil War to be honest.
     
  10. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    But they are among the first who are able to form a well-regulated militia.
     
  11. yung.carl.jung

    yung.carl.jung Hey Bird! I'm Morose & Lugubrious

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    That is certainly true :D
     
  12. tetley

    tetley Head tea leaf

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    Exactly this part. And that's why this enormous pressure not to contest the results in the name of "healing our country" is a load of pure drivel. "Oh, I'm tired of fighting. Let's just let a con-man rule our country and we all unite under him. Besides, there was no fraud. The polls were all wrong, and the election stations were all right. We already know that without even looking into it."
     
  13. Bootstoots

    Bootstoots Deity Retired Moderator

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    It's garbage: see this. However, the Jill Stein campaign may attempt a recount regardless. Clinton isn't that kind of politician, and it would make the Democrats look bad, so the ideal outcome would be for the Green Party to do it entirely on their own initiative and for the Democrats to distance themselves from it.
     
  14. metalhead

    metalhead Angry Bartender

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    Other advocates have no clue what they are talking about. Even the most ardent originalist agreed that the "well regulated" clause means what it says - that regulation is as important a component of a free state as ensuring the right to bear arms is not infringed.

    You seem to think that the fact that someone can express a different opinion means that opinion is legitimate. It isn't. Only an idiot or a self-interested lobbying group would try to assert that there is inoperative language in a constitutional amendment. That isn't how interpretation works.
     
  15. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    Why would Stein do it? What do they have to gain from it. HRC and the democrats won't do it.
     
  16. zxcvbob

    zxcvbob Emperor

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    Can you name one ardent originalist who says that?
     
  17. JollyRoger

    JollyRoger Slippin' Jimmy Supporter

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    Scalia did a bit in his Heller opinion. He even endorsed most current gun regulation.
     
  18. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    You seem to think that you own the only legitimate opinion.

    A day-after quote:

    Could Hillary Clinton have run a better campaign? In retrospect, she probably should have invested more time and resources in the Rust Belt, but otherwise she ran the modern campaign playbook with great skill. There does not seem to be much more that she could have done.​
    http://www.electoral-vote.com/evp2016/Pres/Maps/Nov09.html

    I always said the candidate herself was the weakest link. What is the general take on this?

    J
     
  19. Archbob

    Archbob Ancient CFC Guardian

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    I think the rust belt thing makes a lot of sense. Votes wise she didn't do that bad. She's ahead by about 2 million and will win by probably close to 3 million in the popular vote, which is actually a pretty big margin.

    Should have spent more time in PA and MI shoring up the blue wall. Running up the score in other states doesn't really matter because of our EC system.
     
  20. onejayhawk

    onejayhawk Afflicted with reason

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    Obviously, hindsight is 2020. Most experts thought Trump was wasting time in the Great Lakes States. Wisconsin is the real head turner. A name little heard lately is important--Scott Walker. The Governor built a machine that was very efficient at turning out the GOP vote for Trump and Ron Johnson. It has been noted that for the first time in history there were no split tickets, ie states with President from one party and Senator from the other.

    The flip side is that Trump did much better in states with a strong Republican Senate candidate. Where he was creamed, eg California and New York, there was no Senate race. Did he piggy-back on GOP TotV efforts more than most realize?

    J
     
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