Clive01 - Warlords Prince Conquest / Domination

No, I forgot the save

:blush:
 
I'll loook at the save and comment once I have finished being killed in WGOTM7 :(

belintani - Up
The Sansman - On deck
Sir Clive -
Sirloin -
negyvenketto -
Bede - Just played
 
Ok, I Got It

I'll play my 10 turns now. There's not much we can talk about. Metal Casting is 24 turns away. :)
 
Ok, I Got It

I'll play my 10 turns now. There's not much we can talk about. Metal Casting is 24 turns away. :)

Yeah - doesn't seem need for any discussion fb. If you want to take 15 turns you might as well do so as there's not a lot to do.

In fact as a general rule let's change to

10 turns (if we are warring)
10-15 turns (if in peacetime)

for now since 10 turns in peacetime early in the game tends to go very quickly. If you don't have time to take 15 , stick to 10.
 
Ok, guys. Turns played. I played 10, but when I was about to post I saw I could take 5 more. Thanks. :D

EXECUTIVE SUMMARY:

  • Panama City was founded
  • Metal Casting due in 1 (2/3 of original time)
  • Madrid and Havana are building naval units. They have to grow and I didn't know what else to build there
  • We have 3 workers now
  • THE WORKERS HAVE MOVEMENT POINTS!

SUGGESTIONS FOR NEXT PLAYER:
  • :whipped: the Lighthouse in Barcelona when it's 1 turn from completition. The overflow would go into granary. I think it'll be done 1 turn later.
  • Switch Madrid to another Settler when it grows again.
  • I marked an alternative site for Porkopolis that grabs the Crab too.

Two screenies:
clive01northeastgr4.jpg

We have a really small island to our northeast, seen thanks to our holy city.
clive01southwestfn6.jpg

And to our southwest is certainly something good to see. We can't found a city on our island to work that fish, so there is another island NW from there.

Research-wise, I think now it's time for Iron Working, don't you?

Spoiler Full Autolog :
Turn 85/460 (750 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:10:22]
Havana grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 86/460 (725 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:18:38]

IBT:

Turn 87/460 (700 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:21:28]

IBT:

Turn 88/460 (675 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:21:40]

IBT:

Turn 89/460 (650 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:22:19]
A Cottage was built near Madrid
Barcelona grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 90/460 (625 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:22:44]
Madrid finishes: Library
Havana's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 91/460 (600 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:25:10]
Madrid begins: Settler (8 turns)
Havana finishes: Lighthouse

IBT:

Turn 92/460 (575 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:25:52]
Havana begins: Granary (10 turns)
A Mine was built near Havana
Havana grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 93/460 (550 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:28:32]
Barcelona's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 94/460 (525 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:29:34]

IBT:

Turn 95/460 (500 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:30:29]
Madrid finishes (:whipped:): Settler

IBT:

Turn 96/460 (475 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:38:03]
Madrid begins: Worker (6 turns)
A Mine was built near Barcelona
Havana finishes: Granary

IBT:

Turn 97/460 (450 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:40:23]
Havana begins: Galley (17 turns)
Madrid finishes: Worker
Barcelona grows: 3

IBT:

Turn 98/460 (425 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:45:23]
Madrid begins: Trireme (13 turns)
Panama City founded
Panama City begins: Granary (30 turns)
Madrid grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 99/460 (400 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:48:58]

IBT:

Turn 100/460 (375 BC) [15-Mar-2007 19:50:25]


Oh yeah. Almost forgot the save!
 

Attachments

belintani - Just played
The Sansman - Up
Sir Clive - On deck
Sirloin -
negyvenketto -
Bede -

As before Sansman might as well play 15 if you have time and there are no issues which require team discussion.
 
OK, I got it and played.

I decided to connect all our cities with roads and started moving some of our boats towards the little Island to our north west (Ibiza?). I hit enter and got this.

Civ4ScreenShot0010.jpg


Nice to see that the AI is having problems with this map. I do not think I have ever had the largest area before.

Iron came in:

Civ4ScreenShot0011.jpg


We have two sources:woohoo: :

Civ4ScreenShot0012.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0013.jpg


I chose Compass next. I was thinking that we need to get to Optics. A boat finally got to Ibiza:

Civ4ScreenShot0014.jpg


Now I think we have discovered the Canary Islands.

Civ4ScreenShot0015.jpg


So far I have not discovered any AIs, but four more Islands. I think we should settle those Islands next. I played 15 turns, because I wanted to see what else I could find around the Islands. Anyways here's the state I left our empire. Do we want to build any Wonders

Civ4ScreenShot0016.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0017.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0018.jpg


Civ4ScreenShot0019.jpg



Spoiler :
Logging by Ruff's Cobbled Mod Pack v2.0.4 (Warlords v2.08) - New Log Entries
----------------------------------------------------------------------------
Turn 100/460 (375 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:35:11]
Tech learned: Metal Casting
A Hamlet was built near Madrid
Havana grows: 4
A Hamlet was built near Barcelona

IBT:

Turn 101/460 (350 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:44:08]
Research begun: Iron Working (8 Turns)
Madrid's borders expand

IBT:

Turn 102/460 (325 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:45:06]
Madrid grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 103/460 (300 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:46:37]
Barcelona begins: Granary (10 turns)

IBT:

Turn 104/460 (275 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:48:20]
Madrid finishes: Trireme
Havana grows: 5

IBT:

Turn 105/460 (250 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:49:37]
Madrid begins: Forge (12 turns)
Havana finishes: Galley
Panama City grows: 2

IBT:

Turn 106/460 (225 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:51:17]
Havana begins: Confucian Temple (6 turns)

IBT:

Turn 107/460 (200 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:53:18]
Tech learned: Iron Working

IBT:

Turn 108/460 (175 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:54:01]
Research begun: Compass (12 Turns)
Research begun: Machinery (12 Turns)
Research begun: Optics (12 Turns)
Research begun: Compass (12 Turns)
Madrid grows: 7

IBT:

Turn 109/460 (150 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:57:40]
Madrid begins: Settler (8 turns)

IBT:

Turn 110/460 (125 BC) [16-Mar-2007 08:59:51]
Havana begins: Courthouse (18 turns)
Havana grows: 6

IBT:

Turn 111/460 (100 BC) [16-Mar-2007 09:04:17]
Havana finishes: Confucian Temple
Barcelona finishes: Lighthouse

IBT:

Turn 112/460 (75 BC) [16-Mar-2007 09:05:24]
A Farm was built near Panama City

IBT:

Turn 113/460 (50 BC) [16-Mar-2007 09:06:10]
Barcelona begins: Library (30 turns)
Barcelona finishes: Granary
Panama City finishes: Granary

IBT:

Turn 114/460 (25 BC) [16-Mar-2007 09:08:07]
Panama City begins: Library (30 turns)
Madrid grows: 8

IBT:

Turn 115/460 (0 AD) [16-Mar-2007 09:10:57]
Madrid begins: Confucian Temple (4 turns)


The save
 
Very nice turns, Sansman! We now have some "hope". How come we are the largest? Are all the AI's playing a One City Challenge? :lol:
South Iron is good. North iron no city can actually work it. We'd have to spare a settler to a marginal city. But, which of our cities isn't "marginal"? Madrid only!
We need some more scouting norteast, but I think the next city to be found is porkopolis. Can anyone make a more detailed analysis of that west fish? If we found crab-porkopolis would we be able to settle that without astro?

We are pretty much running out of things to build. Wonders.. Oh, wonders... We are at 1 AD and no 'mids, no Parthenon, no Temple of Artemis, no Great Lighthouse... But we don't have a wonder speeder too.... The Great Lighthouse would be good, but we don't have a powerful hammer city for it... I think it's better for us to build some libraries, hire some scientists and begin lightbulbing our way to liberalism. Of course, if we do this in Madrid (the best place), we'd have a priest polluted pool... If we get one, we can always build a shrine. ;)
 
Nicely done Sansman !

Updated roster

belintani -
The Sansman - Just played
Sir Clive - Up
Sirloin - On deck
negyvenketto -
Bede -

I'll probably play at about 21-00 London time.

I haven't looked at the save yet, only the report so I'll post some thoughts later

fbel mentioned about employing some scientists. I never used to use specialists much but I have since appreciated their power and the value of Great People so now I nearly always try to get some going early.

Unforunately we don't have nearly as much food surplus here as I have had in my last few games so I think we may be slightly limited. I will examine the possibilities when I look at the save.
 
Regarding Great Scientists:

I neglected GPs for a long time, but once I learned to use them properly, its amazing the huge research boost you can get pre-liberalism. The standard play that many people use which works great is to build the Great Library in your GP Farm then run 4 scientists there and build the NE. This will be ripping out great scientists which you can use for major discoveries, most notably philosophy, education, and liberalism itself.

Good turns so far, its nice to see we have some new islands to explore/expand and that the AI is cramped on land.
 
Pre turn thoughts

OK - If I am going to play 15 turns then I will probably go for the following -

Madrid - already 1 unhappy and it will be 2 unhappy when it completes the forge in 1 turn time.
It has 4 excess food and it's pointless growing any more until we can keep it happy . GPs and upping
our science rate would be nice so I will employ 1 or2 scientists here as previously
discussed. Will start build on courthouse (15 turns currently) when forge completes.

Havana - Courthouse due in 12. In 4 it will have grown to it's happiness limit. Suggest
building next settler here.

Barcelona - currently building Library due in 85. Not quite sure what to build here - either
leave as Library or switch to settler or galley ? Settler would curently take 25, Galley 50

Panama - leave on Library due in 29 as we need the border expansion to get the Iron.

Terrain Improvements We have 3 workers. I'd suggest using them to mine the iron in the north and to cottage the grassland tiles near Barcelona.

Treasury / Science We currently have 2 gold in the treasury and are at -3 gpt at 80% science so the science rate
is going to have to come done if we don't produce more commerce soon.

Exploration Our galleys will continue to explore to the NE.

Research - Compass is due in 6. I presume we want to go to Machinery next on the path to Optics ?

Please let me know your thoughts - I'm still planning to play 15 turns at about 21-00 UK
time, although I may stop for discussion if we meet anyone or anything bizarre occurs :)
 
I'll give my thoughts, as you asked:

Madrid - already 1 unhappy and it will be 2 unhappy when it completes the forge in 1 turn time.
It has 4 excess food and it's pointless growing any more until we can keep it happy . GPs and upping our science rate would be nice so I will employ 1 or2 scientists here as previously discussed. Will start build on courthouse (15 turns currently) when forge completes.
You don't need a Courthouse in the capital! Complete the forge (it'll give you another happy face) and then stagnate growth with a settler. :whipped: it for 2 or even 3 pop when possible

Havana - Courthouse due in 12. In 4 it will have grown to it's happiness limit. Suggest building next settler here.
Same :whipped: applies here. These expensive buildings take too long if you don't use some "volunteers" to rush it. :mischief:

Barcelona - currently building Library due in 85. Not quite sure what to build here - either leave as Library or switch to settler or galley ? Settler would curently take 25, Galley 50
Keep the library. Maybe MM the city to get some hammers without letting the gold unworked.

Panama - leave on Library due in 29 as we need the border expansion to get the Iron.
29 turns to build + 5 turns to pop borders is too much. Er... How about :whipped:? :D

Terrain Improvements We have 3 workers. I'd suggest using them to mine the iron in the north and to cottage the grassland tiles near Barcelona.
:whipped: them. Ops, sorry. Not possible. :blush:
Seriously, move one to the mine. The others should road all the way to Panama and the pigs. If you pair them, they'll be faster. And it'll raise the chances of Panama getting a religion. Unless Barcelona has too much unimproved land to work.

Treasury / Science We currently have 2 gold in the treasury and are at -3 gpt at 80% science so the science rateis going to have to come done if we don't produce more commerce soon.
If we can get it to 70% is good. In a few turns we'll have some courthouses.

Research - Compass is due in 6. I presume we want to go to Machinery next on the path to Optics ?
I guess so. Unless you think Machinery will need too much time. Maybe a detour to Maths -> Calendar -> Currency (not necessarily in this order) should be done.

Some or all of this may be :smoke: as I can't see the state of the cities right now. And, sometimes, my hand bleeds for using the :whipped: too much. So, use my :whipped: advices carefully. :crazyeye:
 
I can't look at the save at the moment so correct me if I'm wrong here, but if Madrid has unhappiness, we need to whip it down to happy again, or at least reassign the population to stop producing food. An unhappy city producing net food is a problem that needs to be corrected.
 
Sorry I haven't included your oriiginal points fbel but I'm not much good at using this multiquote thing :(

Re courthouse in the capital - you say the forge will give me another happy face. I thought it gave another unhappy face ?

Also I don't understand why is a courthouse in the capital useless ? I thought it gave 50% reduction in maintenance regardless of which city it was in.

Agree with whipping settler in the capital.

Since I don't use whipping all that much I don't understand exactly how you work out when you can whip ? As far as I understand it you can only sacrifice half of your population . Is that right ?

At the moment the city screen says that whipping courthouse in Havana requires 4 pop and we only have 3 available. Havana is currently size 6 so I presume this means we have to grow to size 8 before we whip it ? In which case the courthouse will be built already by then so I don't see any way we can speed it up.

Similarly the library in Panama (curently at size 2) requires 3 pop to whip and there is only 1 available. I presume this means Panama has to grow to size 6 before it can be whipped ? If so , this will take quite a time.

I'm off now to look for a good strategy guide on whipping in the forums since I don't think I understand it fully and the Civilopedia doesn't deal with the specific figures :(
 
I can't look at the save at the moment so correct me if I'm wrong here, but if Madrid has unhappiness, we need to whip it down to happy again, or at least reassign the population to stop producing food. An unhappy city producing net food is a problem that needs to be corrected.

Sirloin - I sent my reply to fbel's post before I saw yours, but I understand - I will whip Madrid (probably a settler) after the forge has finished next turn
 
you say the forge will give me another happy face. I thought it gave another unhappy face ?
The forge gives you an unhealthy face. BUT it gives you an extra happy face because we have gold. Forges give happiness for Gold, Silver and Gems.

Also I don't understand why is a courthouse in the capital useless ? I thought it gave 50% reduction in maintenance regardless of which city it was in.
You're right about it, but the maintenance is given by:
# of Cities maintenance + distance from palace
In the capital, the distance from palace is always 0, so there's always something better to build there. Take a look at the city screen to see how much gold is going into maintenance. See if it's really worth 120 :hammers: to save 1/2 gpt.

Since I don't use whipping all that much I don't understand exactly how you work out when you can whip ? As far as I understand it you can only sacrifice half of your population . Is that right ?
Quite right. I think there's a good guide in the war academy. Wait a second..
This is from war academy: The Inner Mechanics of Food, Growth, Granary and Whipping
about the good use of Granary and :whipped: together.
And this is from VoiceOfUnreason: Vocum Sineratio: The Whip

Besides that, there's always Sisiutil's ALCs that contributed to my learning so much. :)

At the moment the city screen says that whipping courthouse in Havana requires 4 pop and we only have 3 available. Havana is currently size 6 so I presume this means we have to grow to size 8 before we whip it ? In which case the courthouse will be built already by then so I don't see any way we can speed it up.

Similarly the library in Panama (curently at size 2) requires 3 pop to whip and there is only 1 available. I presume this means Panama has to grow to size 6 before it can be whipped ? If so , this will take quite a time.

I'm off now to look for a good strategy guide on whipping in the forums since I don't think I understand it fully and the Civilopedia doesn't deal with the specific figures :(

Follow the links above for the guide, but you are forgetting that the production counts towards the :whipped: requirements. Let me explain a bit.

We are at normal speed. Each pop that you :whipped: = 30 :hammers:. After that, modifiers apply (50% for Workers, 100% for Granaries, 25% for Organized Religion and Forges and so on). So, if your building has less than 30 :hammers: (+ modifiers) to finish, it'll offer a 1-pop-whip to conclude the building. If it has less than 60 :hammers: to finish and more than 30 :hammers: it'll offer a 2-pop-whip to conclude the building. And so on...

I know it's kinda :crazyeye: but once I learned how to use it, I went from Warlord level to Prince in a ZAP. :D
 
Thanks fbel - that's all incredibly useful.

One of the reasons for starting this SG was so that I could learn how to improve my game and I've certainly learnt a lot from your reply !

Now to put the theory into practice :eek:
 
Half way report .....

Pre turn check

I am not quite sure what will happen here if I hit enter here as we have 2g in the bank
and are at -3 gpt so put science down to 70%

Hit enter

1) - 25AD

Great Prophet BIADL + Great Lighthouse BIADL

Madrid is now happy due to forge being built. Settler is due in 5.
Check through cities to see if anything can be rushed.
Rush courthouse in Havana.
Our easternmost Galley discovers an island with some desert tiles and copper.


IT Havana Courthouse->Forge

2) - 50 AD

We can whip settler in Madrid .
It will mean 1:( for 18 turns since we still have unhappiness from previous whip.
I do it anyway . He will head towards Porkopolis
We have a GP due in Madrid in 3 turns.
Northernmost galley finds an icy island

IT Madrid Settler -> Confucian temple (it was already queued up so I left it)
Mahabodhi BIADL

3) - 75 AD

Can't whip anything.
We meet Wang Kong over to the East. He is buddhist and has the holy city.
Score is Wang 435 , Us 354
I sign open borders with Wang
Settler is heading towards Porkopolis site.
He is unescorted . Barcelona is undefended.
Once Porkopolis is founded we will have 5 cities and only 3 warriors.

4) - 100 AD

Can't whip anything.
Discover another iron source up in the ice to the north

IT Madrid Confucian Temple -> Barracks (Thought about Colossus but it was 32
turns) Great Prophet born in Madrid. I can't see the point of lightbulbing meditation
just yet so I am going to hold on until we have discovered Compass in 3 turns

5) - 125 AD

Science up to 80% (6 gold ,-1 gpt)
Can't whip anything.
Found Porkopolis (rather than Clam Porkopolis since it has better land)
Set build to lighthouse.

6) - 150 AD

Science down to 60% (0 gold , +2 gpt)
I employ a scientist in Madrid . We still have a 3fpt surplus
Meet Qin to the east of Wang
He is Hindu and has the holy city.
Trade him our excess gold for gems
Trade him Code of Laws for Mathematics, Hunting and Masonry (hope this wasn't too :( )

Qin is up Monarchy, Alphabet, Mono, Calendar, Archery, Construction on us.

IT Compass->Calendar
Iron is hooked up
Scores are now Wang 450, Qin 421, Us 416

I'm going to take an hour or so break here before completing the turns so any
suggestions / criticisms welcome.

In particular -

a) What should we do with the great prophet ?
b) What should we research next ?

7) .............

Save / screenies to follow
 
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