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Clown Car III: Who's Laughing Now

Discussion in 'Off-Topic' started by Broken_Erika, Dec 22, 2017.

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  1. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    ^I agree about bullying, and a kid can very well choose to fight back, at which point things may lead to anything up to very chronic injuries. I know also from experience, and if i could i would have reacted - and if i had reacted it wouldn't be just a small reaction. Bullying is a vastly damaging experience.
    Yet you don't see school shootings/other school spree killing much in Europe, so maybe another parameter is that in Europe most teens don't see their locality as some end-all of things.
    Though in huge metros like London you again do see much higher violence rate by teens, eg with the acid attacks now, and with gangs since forever.

    Teens tend to imagine that they are in the center and everything happening is central - so this can increase even more if they are in a location which is presented by media also as some clear epicenter. That is what i imagine, anyway. Eg here, as teens, we would at least keep in mind that most movies present the US, so it isn't like everything around us was the only or the top thing.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  2. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    What are other differences? Back in the 60's when I was in school there was bullying (from personal experience) I don't know if its worse or better now but we didn't have the shooting that we have now. So I'm willing to bet that it's more than that.
     
  3. Kyriakos

    Kyriakos Alien spiral maker

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    Although in the 80s it was overhyped, maybe current games are a factor, given they are gore-fests, apparently ^^ (not all, but the shooters; in the old days there was just Doom :D ).

    Even as late as 1999 there was some massive backlash against a quite anodyne game about football hooligans, with the violence being 10 pixel-length at most. Now you see shooters where you get a surgical view of how the bullet makes your enemy's lungs explode :)

    Not that gore-less games have to be peaceful. I recall how i would enjoy sending all my people outdoors, in Megalomania (Amiga game), everytime the enemy would send a nuke. I was thinking of it as "let them enjoy the sunshine" :devil:
     
  4. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    Has to be considered somewhat, we didn't even have pong yet. ;)
    But we did play with toy guns :)
     
  5. Broken_Erika

    Broken_Erika Nothing

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    That's 'cause Bullies make good managers, therefore bullying is good. While victims of bullying who speak out are whistle-blowers, more commonly known as "Snitches", and nobody likes snitches!
     
  6. rah

    rah Warlord Supporter

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    Except all the victims I know are now technology managers and the bullies still work for streets and sanitation. :lol:
     
  7. Timsup2nothin

    Timsup2nothin Another drone in the hive mind

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    All the bullies I knew went on to be cops.
     
  8. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    And yet we have strict airplane regulations.
     
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  9. Cutlass

    Cutlass The Man Who Wasn't There.

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    "We need more Republicans in 2018 and must ALWAYS hold the Supreme Court!"


    Trump
     
  10. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    And we have strict gun regulations too. Again I have to state, there is not any other consumer good on the market that requires government permission for each and every sale of that good. If I go into my local gun shop and buy an AR-15, they do a background check. If I come in the very next day to buy a shotgun, they have to do another background check despite the fact that they just did one on me the previous day.

    The idea that guns are unregulated in the US is a complete myth that is just used as a scare tactic to make the anti-gun crowd seem more reasonable.

    Every problem that we have with guns in the US can be traced back to government incompetence when it comes to enforcing the law. I mean, the shooting in Parkland can be directly attributed to law enforcement at every single level of government ignoring reports about the shooter. So I'm still waiting for someone to explain to me how giving that incompetent government even more power is the answer?

    EDIT: Also, flying on an airplane is not a right guaranteed by the Constitution. Owning firearms is. That is why comparing firearms regulation to regulation of any other industry falls flat.
     
  11. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    This sounds a little like a "nothing to see here" kind of statement... but since you used the plane crash comparison... When a plane crashes, its treated like a big deal. It's all over the news. There are investigations. People get fired, people get sued, manufacturers get sued, airlines get sued. In fact an airplane crash is the literal textbook example of the kind of event where the very occurrence, in-and-of-itself, establishes a presumption of fault.

    Also, I know that you're not saying that since airplane crashes are so rare, we shouldn't bother with extensive regulations to prevent them from happening.

    In short, the fact that school shootings are rare, does not mean that people are wrong or unjustified to freak out about them... and frankly dude WTF... I mean its an effing school shooting. They shouldn't be "rare", they should be zero.
     
  12. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    I'm not saying people shouldn't freak out about them. What I'm saying is we shouldn't base changes to our Constitution on those freak outs.

    EDIT: And manufacturers are only sued in airplane crashes if the crash can be attributed to faulty parts. If the pilot goes crazy and just flies the plane into a mountain, you aren't going to see any manufacturers being sued.

    EDIT2: That's the difference you always seem to miss when trying to make the argument that gun manufacturers should be sued. In other instances, like plane crashes, the deadly incident is usually because the product they made did not function correctly. When it comes to shootings, it's because the end user of the product in question chose to use it in an unlawful way.

    I mean, you don't see anyone calling for car manufacturers to be sued when someone uses a car to willfully run down a bunch of pedestrians.
     
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2018
  13. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    :lol:
    Ok dude, sure.

    Edit: And the regulations on airlines and airplane manufacturers are much more onerous than those on gun manufacturers and sellers. Not even comparable.
     
  14. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    One could just as easily say that the idea that suddenly all guns will be banned everywhere if the amendment is repealed is just as much of a myth.

    Either way, complaining about emotionally disturbed teenagers shortly after a major school shooting is often a good way to start feeling unappreciated again.
     
  15. Sommerswerd

    Sommerswerd I never yielded

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    I have major problems with this argument, particularly from you. First of all you're completely denying personal responsibility, which you wouldn't do in other contexts. Also, you're using a blame-the-system argument, which again, you would absolutely reject in other contexts. No matter how much a kid feels that he gets bullied, that's not an excuse to come to the school and shoot a bunch of people, no way. I mean black people are getting bullied by the police, and you won't even accept them kneeling during the football game. But now you're willing to let bullying be an excuse to shoot up the school?

    I also note that you are complaining that you got the same punishment as a classmate, when his behavior was worse than yours. Well what about the fact that black people get worse punishments, up to and including death, including summary execution by police, for the same or lesser offenses (than white Americans) and sometimes no offense at all. Are we (black people) justified in buying a bunch of rifles and shooting up the police stations and courthouses?
    That hasn't been my experience with my kids. In fact, my son got suspended from recess for almost a week because he was walking backwards in the hallway, holding a ball on his shoulder and he bumped into a girl behind him, causing the ball to roll off his shoulder and hit the girl in the head. Even though it was an accident, the girl felt scared, so they excluded him from recess as a precaution. The principal essentially told me that because my son is bigger and stronger than most of the kids his age, kids are intimidated by him and easily feel bullied by him, so the teaches are much quicker to punish my son and punish him more harshly than other kids for the same offense, apparently so that kids don't feel bullied.
     
  16. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    So you don't see the fact that both local law enforcement and the FBI were warned about Cruz and did nothing about it as government incompetence? And that's not the only case either. Just look at the issue with Chicago. They complain that people in Chicago can just go over the border into Indiana and get a gun. Well, it's illegal to buy a gun in a state you are not a resident of, so again that is a failure of government to enforce its own laws.

    Also, you still haven't answered how handing a government that can't enforce its own laws (on just about every issue, not just guns) even more power is the solution? I mean damn, the FBI can't even keep up with basic things like background checks for government security clearances. The IRS fails to catch even a fraction of the tax fraud and tax evasion that takes place. And don't even get me started on how much of a failure both the ATF and DEA are.

    So again I say: When the government shows that it can enforce even our most simple laws and policies with any degree of competence, then may be we can talk about handing them more responsibility.

    Yet another mischaracterization of the argument I made. I never complained about teenagers being emotionally shaken after a tragedy, I complained about those who seem to think we should allow emotionally traumatized people to dictate policy.

    Sure, except for the multiple currently elected politicians that make gun bans a part of their political platform.

    I never said it excuses their behavior. I said I could understand how it could drive someone to shoot up their classmates, not that it makes shooting up their classmates okay.
     
  17. Arakhor

    Arakhor Dremora Courtier Moderator

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    How exactly are said teenagers dictating policy? By standing up and being counted, by being noisy on social media, by demonstrating across your country? The First Amendment still applies, right?

    You're also conveniently ignoring all the politicians who campaign on loving guns because...
     
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  18. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    You mean at that point you'll move the goalpost again.
     
  19. Commodore

    Commodore Technology of Peace

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    It's not them, it's the people out there saying we should be listening to them.

    I argued somewhere else that I think these protests should not be protected by the 1st Amendment. I'll quote it here:

    Basically, I'm saying you shouldn't be allowed to use your rights to infringe upon my rights.

    Because they aren't trying to take a Constitutional right away from me.

    So you don't have an answer? Got it.
     
  20. hobbsyoyo

    hobbsyoyo Warlord

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    So your rights trump everyone else's rights. Got it. Yeah this is going to be a super productive conversation.
     
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