Clowns to the Left of me, Jokers to the Right

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Gyspsysmoke, Feb 2, 2006.

  1. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    I'm currently playing a huge pangea map with 12 other civ's on noble (marathon speed). I am Japan, I have Catherine to the west, FDR to the southwest, Monty to the direct south. Ghengis, Napolean, Isabella, Alexander, and someone I have yet to meet (it's around 0 AD at this point) are all seperated from me a bit. Napoleon is second to me in score.

    My general strat is to chop rush a settler, then chop rush stonehenge, get a third city out and get horseback/ironworking. I usually take a 4th city from the barbs (they put one in a nice spot for me this time :king: ). I then researched Code of Laws, mainly for courthhouses so I can get my economy in order, but I was first to get it so I founded Confucianism. I promptly spread it to my most powerful ally (Monty, which makes me nervous) who converted (it has spread like mad since then as well, trying to take it to Catherine currently). I know the religion is going to cause me problems with Isabelle and others but I don't really care...


    I just wiped out Asok (who was to the east), and now I have this vast territory (looks like Russia) to spread out on. I gained a few cities in my conquest (7 total now), need to plant 2-3 more to ensure I don't get any "friends" plotting cities behind me. I have the millitary tech edge, but my excess army is thin due to the war, defending new cities, keeping an eye on the unclaimed territory etc.

    I think I am barely keeping up in tech, its going a lot slower than usual (though I did just get alphabet which led to me getting monarchy and mathematics in a single turn through trading). The economy is (slowly) turning around, and if experience is any guide, within 20 turns I will be a production/research powerhouse (already #1 in population, GDP, and production).

    I want to go for a domination win (or conquest, but that seems impossible on this map), and my plan is to go for Bureacracy (samuri!) and whichever gives police state (facism?).

    The question is, how long CAN I wait before my next conquest if I want to win a domination victory?
     
  2. Boppo

    Boppo Chieftain

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    I'd say the answer to your question is until you can financially afford to absorb more cities. The trick to domination on a huge map is money. You want to get Communism as soon as possible so you can get State Property. I find that helps a lot with a large empire. This also gives you the ability to build the Kremlin, which is awesome in the later game for rush buying units.

    When you can afford to have 70-80% in tech then you can probably afford to expand some more. Then when it is down to 20-40% it is probably a good idea to stop and digest the new cities you have acquired. Build improvements, get them financially stable then move on to the next expansion.
     
  3. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    Forgot about state property, but yeah that is a must as well. I was down to 10-20% research as I finished off Asok (punk kept building more cities as I wiped him out) but now it is back to 70-80 although I am broke (but so is everyone else).
     
  4. Boppo

    Boppo Chieftain

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    I don't worry so much about the cash on hand, as long as I can pay for everything. You usually build up cash as you take cities and pillage anyway.
     
  5. AngryPants

    AngryPants Warlord

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    So true. I just finished a game where i ran a -30 gold deficit for about 3000 years. I just kept robbing other civs and building great merchants to perform trade missions. It was nuts.
     
  6. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    My only worry about cash on hand is when it comes time to upgrade the units (aka the start of my next war).
     
  7. AngryPants

    AngryPants Warlord

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    Banks are the backbone of your war machine, forget this not.
     
  8. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    You said three things I'd like to focus in on.

    Who cares if AI civs plant a city or two? They're actually doing you a favor. Simply take those cities when it's convenient and propitious to do so. :D Since you already intend to go for a domination win, this will not be an inconvenience in the slightest. You already intend to build up a war machine.

    In addition, the maintenance for building up your own cities, especially cities 8, 9, 10, will be onerous.

    Anyway, I'd say you shouldn't build any more cities, unless there is a REAL tasty spot. Concentrate on the 7 cities you have already, make them either production or commerce powerhouses.

    Wodan
     
  9. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

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    you choose one of the best civs for domination, or domination vote (having a large empire not large enough for domination but good enough to vote yourself un leader of the world and since you got religon allies they will vote for you too maybe)
    organised so you can afford a large empire without state property and aggressive trait, and pangeea!
    All i can say is get vassalage or theology and pump out 6/8 xp SAMAURIA! and own lmao, what i love is that when you upgrade them, you will have grenadiers with city raider bonus, which owns :)!
     
  10. AngryPants

    AngryPants Warlord

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    I would care because the AI does a crappy job of placing cities. You can take those AI cities at a later date, secure in the knowledge that they will be 1 square away from the coast and have significant tile overlappage. Also, if there are flood plains, you can be sure that the AI will build on the wrong tile, preventing you from razing the city, since the tile will turn to desert. Woohoo! Sometimes I think the AI purposely misbuilds cities so that I will get stuck with a shoddy empire after I conquer them. The best analogy is a guy getting boiled alive by cannibals peeing in the stewpot as he gets cooked.
     
  11. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    ROFLMAO :lol:

    The new cities thing will depend on how quickly my economy turns around, i have an army of workers at this point (though I think you should get to keep the fast workers you take from Asok, I mean they get conquered and get lazy?! :rolleyes: )
     
  12. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    As for city placement, that's a valid point, but seriously if you cripple yourself with maintenance before you can handle it, then you shoot your domination plans in the foot. City placement is moot at that point.

    For fast workers, do all UUs get converted to their equivalent when you conquer them? Honestly I don't know that I've ever noticed either way and now it's bugging me. :crazyeye:

    Wodan
     
  13. Boppo

    Boppo Chieftain

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    They are the only UU you can actually capture. All the others are destroyed as they are combat units.
     
  14. chewbaccad

    chewbaccad Chieftain

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    I seem to recall the fast workers becoming regular workers after being captured, but perhaps I'm remembering wrong...
     
  15. Riffraff

    Riffraff Deity

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    yeah just conquered india on my last game, and the fast workers turn to normal ones when you capture them and if he captures your workers, theyll swicth to fast ones..
     
  16. The Lardossen

    The Lardossen Warlord

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    Whenever I capture a worker playing Asoka, it changes to a fast worker. Guess they don't have the regular ones in pink. Nice feature :D
     
  17. Wodan

    Wodan Deity

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    Go figure.

    "Hey, welcome to the Indian Empire. Here's your purple vest and a speed pill. Enjoy." :mischief:

    Wodan
     
  18. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    played till 1468, bleh...huge maps are exhausting...

    i'm in a pretty safe position, about to turn on the war machine, will be to police state soon enough (already have communism), main rivals are on the oposite side of the map, but either napoleon or alexander have a huge army (albeit not as advanced as mine, the second largest)...

    ran at about -30 debt for a millenia, now making +30 at 100% research, upgrading units as I can, turns out the AI will pay their entire coffers for most any tech (not always true, but is for the most part), which can feed both overgrowth and wars, and when you get to communism you are all of a sudden in the black at 100%, hope to send out army of cavalry/gernaiders for the first part of the conquest, alexander drew me into his war with isa (and 2 turns later they made peace), so I got 5 others to join in (including alexander)...didn't send many units myself, isa was weak, they can fight over the scraps :king:

    At this point I have about 10 cities (didn't make another settler, just got the ones the barbarians made) and I am wondering how many more I should think about taking. With communism it seems like it shouldn't be a problem...would domination or conquest be a more viable strategy?


    EDIT: Saved game is too big to post :cry:
     
  19. Grimz101

    Grimz101 King

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    go for domination, if you miss it, get diplomatic vote and win it, since it sounds like you got lots of friends since they attacked izzy
     
  20. Gyspsysmoke

    Gyspsysmoke Chieftain

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    up to early 1800's now, 211 turns left...

    I let my war party (the 5 other AI's) take out isa, and then grew into my aso territory. Monty and others began fighting FDR and I saw a couple of prime spots on the map that I wanted, so I came in from the north and met Monty at the middle (I got the good cities). Grew those cities a bit and used them as a launching point for a conquest of MM (he really didn't like me), took a long time to take care of him (couple hundred years) due to the fact he was #2 on the score list when we started (and on the far side of the world). MM had the Jewish holy city, which I took (good location/ally's state religion), the rest I razed. Napolean was his neighbor and ally, and to top that off he had planted a few cities in the uninhabitable northern regions of my empire. So he was a natural next choice.

    While this is going on, Monty goes crazy on me (shortly after he adopted freedom of religion, and I'm not giving up organized religion) and starts attacking Catherine. I don't mind this, keeps them both tech poor (and significantly weakened Catherine) but it screws up my diplomacy angle because I had to refuse to help either side as my forces were busy destroying napoleon.

    I made short work of the french and razed their empire...lots of empty space to keep alexander busy...and now I have 211 turns to win either domination or conquest

    I am going to try domination, Monty's and GK's empire's combined would most likely get me to it. Alexander is pleased with me (and catherine is between us) and I can keep them bought off with techs...

    tech wise I am about 30 turns away from modern armor, at that point I'm turning tech off and blasting culture to 50-60% and using the coin to upgrade units...

    first in every important demographic (almost 2X the size of the next biggest armies...which I assume to be Monty's)

    might be done...in a week :king:

    does having units in a city prevent it from culture flipping (or lower the chance?) cause monty has a ton in one city that is about too (if he had that one civic on it would increase happiness, would that keep it from flipping?) or is he preparing to strike?
     

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