1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

CNES: The Flames of War (BETA)

Discussion in 'Never Ending Stories' started by Crezth, Jul 24, 2012.

  1. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    11,129
    Location:
    北京皇城
    This is not an update (I feed off of the moment a person's hope dies), however just a friendly notation that the update is still coming. This delay will hopefully be the only one of its kind as I make some long-overdue fixes midst other obligations. I figure that these changes had to be made eventually, and they would delay an update by necessity, so I decided to make it this one just to get it out of the way.

    CNES prevails!
     
  2. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    11,129
    Location:
    北京皇城
    Just a quick word (as I would sooner kill this NES outright than let it die a slow, passive-aggressive death) that the next update is still coming. It's been a turbulent few weeks but I believe I have a strong opportunity to get the update out this coming weekend. Even if that isn't the case though, I will continue to work on it as the opportunity strikes me.

    Furthermore, I'd like to pose a quick survey to those who have been playing in CNES thus far. This is not only a gauge of interest despite my awful scheduling, but also an evaluation for just in case the NES is impossible to pick up.

    1. Despite the hiatus, are you still interested in seeing an update?

    2. What parts of this NES do you like? Why?

    3. What parts of this NES don't you like? Why?

    4. If you could make one recommendation for me to keep in mind for future updates, what would that be?

    5. Haha, okay, seriously, aside from "more timely updates you f*ck," got any suggestions?


    ---

    Thanks for your patience!

    Much love,

    Crezth
     
  3. Popcornlord

    Popcornlord Steampunk Mechanic

    Joined:
    Oct 18, 2007
    Messages:
    787
    Well, I'm still interested in seeing this NES continue. If you guys aren't interested in continuing this particular NES, would you be interested in restarting it? I'm enjoying the game so far (despite my general incompetence), and would like to be in some form of broad-game sprite-based NES madness.
     
  4. ChiefDesigner

    ChiefDesigner Sunset Emperor

    Joined:
    Mar 5, 2007
    Messages:
    761
    Absolutely. Reiterating that this has been one of the best forum games I've been in, and I've been in many over my time.


    I'm liking blind research a lot--it's something many people have tried to implement, and this is the first time in a long time I've seen blind research get to Phase 2.

    I also enjoy the storytelling/roleplaying and history aspect; it may not be for everyone, but I *am* enjoying it.

    Having to retune strategy in the middle of a war is a little irritating, but I'll manage.

    That this is a playtest, and you should not be trying to fix all things at once during a playtest, especially when we're all going into the tech system and doctrine selection blind. Trust your mechanics, trust your players to be able to beeline counters, and accept that this game will not be as balanced as you like.


    If at all possible, one turn notice before major buffs or nerfs would be useful, to allow players time to adjust their strategy.
     
  5. Daftpanzer

    Daftpanzer canonically ambiguous

    Joined:
    Nov 27, 2002
    Messages:
    6,598
    Gender:
    Male
    Location:
    Portsmouth, England, UK
    I think, rather than lack of interest, we've all been afraid to trip over each other and start arguments again. Or we've all been waiting for other people to jump in. Or its all been discussed on #NES already. Anyways:

    1: Well, with my nation in not such a good position, I'd rather see progress with the 'full' version...

    2: I love the basic mechanics and the overall style (obv I like the sprites :) )

    3: I dislike the rather cold, brutal way this BETA has been delivered at times. Probably related to this being a BETA.

    4: Me being me, I would've liked to have seen a little more understanding for clueless players (like myself) and more feeling and narrative along with the updates.

    5: I think the tech system could be simplified considerably, and some randomisation could probably help with that. It is not realistic to have tech progress that can be measured out and planned well in advance :) Prototype units could be fun, as could faction-specific units with certain pros and cons (like T-34 and Sherman could both be classed as medium tanks, but with different traits).

    Also, the whole issue of players providing story and character to their nations. This should really be supported, but the moderator should filter it and trim it to fit. IE, players 'suggest' backstory rather than having the final say. And I think we learned that the global backstory should be much simpler, allowing more freedom for players to branch from it. No disrespect to Thlayli for his work here, but I think all we need is a skeleton story to work from.
     
  6. qoou

    qoou Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,991
    1. Definitely yes.

    2. I like many things, so I'll just go into the things I don't hear mentioned much. I like the branching of tech/governments/policies paths quite a bit. I personally also liked the hidden bonus of extra goodies from being the first to finish a research path, even though it wasn't meant to be hidden iirc. In general, I like the idea of hidden bonuses at certain points on the tech path, as long as they're not too large of course (the 3 fighters at the end of the 1st air tech path would qualify as too large for example, but something along the lines of a free heavy tank upon researching Power Treads would be cool).

    3. Some of the sudden changes to the ruleset, and in particular the fact that some of these were disclosed/discussed on #nes, but not in the actual thread. A large chunk of the players of this NES are not regularly on #nes. Sure, this is a "BETA", but still.

    4. Announce changes you're thinking of in advance. You've already started doing this though, so np.

    5. Stop thinking your NES is Shiite.

    This topic got brought up a while ago, and CD managed to convince me somewhat: there ought to be some sort of scaling factor. We came up with one you thought decent back then, that might be good enough.
    I also disagree with officers giving boosts to ground unit AA and air units, but that's already been mentioned.
     
  7. Nuka-sama

    Nuka-sama See ya! It has been a fun decade!

    Joined:
    Jan 27, 2006
    Messages:
    9,461
    Gender:
    Male
    I'm not gonna Raichu a love song, but this is a good nes, don't be too hard on yourself
     
  8. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    Hear ye, hear ye, all ye faithful, I bring news from thy neglectful creator!

    Spoiler #nes, 2012.12.10 :
    [15:24:30] <%SymphonyD> So how's that CNES goin'? :allears:
    [15:36:56] <%Crezth> a failure like everytihng else i've ever done
    [15:37:33] <%Crezth> :superserious:
    [15:40:10] <%Crezth> You're still going on about ME4, though?
    [15:40:43] <%SymphonyD> Hey, I'm a Human, I have hang-ups, okay?
    [15:40:59] <%SymphonyD> Maybe you should learn about it, Legion.
    [15:42:57] <%SymphonyD> Yeah, that's right, go back to your bleep bloopin' MC optimizing.
    [...]
    [15:52:29] <%SymphonyD> So, pop quiz Robutt.
    [15:52:44] <%SymphonyD> If you're switching to a Superpowers style presentation and dropping your units...
    [15:52:53] <%SymphonyD> But your units work under the current rules as discrete entities...
    [15:52:59] <%SymphonyD> With discrete regions...
    [15:53:02] <%SymphonyD> How's that gonna work?
    [15:53:05] <%SymphonyD> Huh? HUH?
    [15:53:40] <%SymphonyD> How will you deal with continuous rather than discrete territoriality?
    [15:54:17] <%SymphonyD> Will there still be discrete units on the continuum? And how will they be displayed and combat be engaged and range a be handled?
    [16:01:38] <%Crezth> Good questions.
    [16:02:07] <%Crezth> I was deciding that each polity would have a limited number of different Armies, which would each be composed of a number of units in the CNES style, in aggregate.
    [16:02:17] <%Crezth> So, say, you'd have Army A with 5 Infantry and a Helicopter.
    [16:02:19] <%Crezth> Or whatever.
    [16:02:41] <%Crezth> And how these armies interact will borrow some from common NESing.
    [16:02:52] <%Crezth> You push your color into other territories, etc.
    [16:03:04] <%Crezth> And the victor of army clashes will be decided by the combat system.
    [16:03:23] <%Crezth> So, the continuum that armies exist on is just that
    [16:03:25] <%Crezth> not granular
    [16:34:00] <%SymphonyD> Okay my thoughts.
    [16:34:22] <%SymphonyD> Don't set it up with any contemporary or historical setting.
    [16:34:35] <%SymphonyD> Either a specifically tuned alt-hist, future history, or alternate world.
    [16:34:43] <%SymphonyD> Since the system inherently presumes "balacnce."
    [16:34:46] <%SymphonyD> *Balance
    [16:34:52] <%SymphonyD> Maybe something like: http://norsehound.deviantart.com/art/Myopia-WIP-Map-119980464?q=gallery:norsehound/359684&qo=199
    [16:35:05] <%SymphonyD> Where everyone is roughly equal.
    [16:35:11] <%SymphonyD> Alternately, scrap "fairness."
    [16:35:19] <%SymphonyD> And just make that explicit.
    [16:35:47] <%SymphonyD> A compromise measure might be to have a points system to customize nations, like SysNES2 but way simpler.
    [16:35:51] <%SymphonyD> Like say, you've got 10 points.
    [16:36:12] <%SymphonyD> You can add an extra army for 5 points, or improve all army attack values by 10% for 8 points.
    [16:36:14] <%SymphonyD> Stuff like that.
    [16:36:53] <%SymphonyD> I think, going back to the Norsehound map there, you might consider nodes and connections.
    [16:37:03] <%SymphonyD> Since most of a country is fairly useless.
    [16:37:19] <%SymphonyD> It loses something of the organicness but hey, less work, and it's a mechanistic system anyway.
    [16:37:38] <%SymphonyD> Also, you can tweak the nodes just like territories to encourage certain behaviors.
    [16:37:49] <%SymphonyD> Handwave the connections as major transportation routes etc.
    [16:38:01] <%SymphonyD> Maybe allow creation of new connections somehow.
    [16:39:02] <%SymphonyD> The question is to what stage it remains just a wargame.
    [16:39:20] <%SymphonyD> Otherwise you start shading into something like SysNES2.
    [16:39:58] *** madviking has quit IRC: Ping timeout: 121 seconds
    [16:41:31] <%SymphonyD> Also you're wandering amusingly close to QJM.
    [16:41:54] <%SymphonyD> It's just that army units are prepackaged groups of weapon combat values.
    [16:42:04] <%SymphonyD> Rather than counting individual weapons and such.
    [16:42:22] <%SymphonyD> And obviously the battle calculations are way simpler and don't take into account as many factors.
    [16:43:03] <%fc> just breeding pigs
    [16:43:05] * %SymphonyD dispenses enlightenment from on high, hmmm yes.
    [16:49:59] <%Crezth> I can't get on minecraft, fc :(
    [16:55:14] <%SymphonyD> See if I help you with my magnificence again. :colbert:
     
  9. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    11,129
    Location:
    北京皇城
    I processed what you said and just didn't have a response. I will be wrapping this thing up soon, though, now that Otherly Obligations are complete.
     
  10. Thlayli

    Thlayli Le Pétit Prince

    Joined:
    Jun 2, 2005
    Messages:
    10,581
    Location:
    In the desert
  11. Terrance888

    Terrance888 Discord Reigns

    Joined:
    Jul 22, 2007
    Messages:
    13,632
    Location:
    Workwork Workshop
    You just fed him.
     
  12. Crezth

    Crezth 話說天下大勢分久必合合久必分

    Joined:
    May 26, 2006
    Messages:
    11,129
    Location:
    北京皇城
  13. Masada

    Masada Koi-san!

    Joined:
    Dec 29, 2005
    Messages:
    12,534
    Location:
    Osaka
    thlayli = hitler

    why am i not surprised.

    ruki spotted comforting masada at 2:58.
     
  14. Symphony D.

    Symphony D. Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 27, 2003
    Messages:
    8,991
    Location:
    ALNITAHIA FOREVER
    And to think I got points for linking a video to Crezth with bad Australian accents.
     
  15. Lord of Elves

    Lord of Elves Suede-Denim Secret Police

    Joined:
    Oct 31, 2009
    Messages:
    6,936
    Location:
    right behind u ;)
    senpai mentioned me :3 :3 :3 :3
     
  16. Ophorian

    Ophorian Holy Britannian Emperor

    Joined:
    Jun 18, 2013
    Messages:
    325
    Location:
    Vancouver
    That video get 51 views? How many lurkers do we have here?
     
  17. qoou

    qoou Emperor

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    1,991
    Lurker reporting
     
  18. Angst

    Angst Rambling and inconsistent

    Joined:
    Mar 3, 2007
    Messages:
    13,746
    Location:
    A Silver Mt. Zion
    I've seen it a few times by now. Does YouTube count multiple views from one IP/User/whatever?
     

Share This Page