CNN Settles Sandmann Defamation Suit

[GenMarshall]

since it’s unlikely you would listen as to why the hat symbolizes racism in America then it is unlikely for you to care why so many see wearing it as a racist act.

Don't assume that I'd wouldn't listen nor care because my views differ from your's.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

The hat is literally associated with the mass deportation of Hispanics as well as concentration camps and the forced seperation of children from their parents, nevermind the dogwhistling of harkening back to a time when minorities knew their place

 

[Nexlev]

Are we at the point where we are just talking past each other, standing across from the other side and just preaching to whichever choir is primed to be receptive?

Politics are tricky, people only have 1 vote and seldom do they have a chance to pick someone they 100% agree with. I myself could never vote for Trump unless the opponent was someone that I downright hated (I don't think any of the current candidates fit the bill)... but still there is a scenario where I could vote for him. Almost certain I will end up casting a protest vote, though I hope the Democrats will pull their head out of their A and offer a real alternative. My protest vote would probably help the Republicans, I don't want that but it's how I vote. There is a minimum threshold and below that is a non-starter. I vote anyways because downballet is more important / more REAL in my mind.

I could really care less about a wall or that much about immigration. There are some things I liked about Trump's message, like his attitude towards infrastructure (unfortunately, an empty promise). And yet, with all the dislike I feel towards Trump, I didn't like the way these kids were treated. When I see Democrats defending it, it motivates me to not vote for them, even where I rationally think I'd be cutting my nose to spite my face were I to vote Republican. It's not just Trump supporters who are watching and evaluating (or reverse the parties and still true).

At the risk of making this too personal... how am I supposed to view our parties when they look at my biracial children and one side sees a polluted white kid who represents the extinction of my legacy, the other side sees a minority majority on paper but a snarky pale face when walking down the street, with implications that the one drop rule has cleansed him of my white plague. I would like to assure both sides that my children are going to inherit my legacy, as will their children of whatever color they are, because I damn sure intend on being around to influence all of them. My grandbaby might have darker skin or kinky hair, but will have the same pattern baldness as me regardless. He or she will use my turn of phrases, body language and other quirks... if I have anything to do with. Which is the lesser evil for me, the side who seems to want to keep white people "pure", or the side who seems to think impure white people have been washed of their original sin? I don't want to get started on gender politics because that's where I really get frustrated. I'm emphasizing the radicals on both sides because I've encountered both sides and neither party seems interested in engaging the skeptics in the middle.

Here's a fact. Donald Trump won the election with less votes than Romney had when he lost his (in a landslide). The problem for neither side is that they have too many hardened opponents. They both seem locked right now into a determined battle to alienate anyone that is not drunk on kool-aid. Both parties are vulnerable right now. Trump won with the support of many disillusioned Democrats, but he pretty much abandoned the promises that appealed to them and has mostly delivered Republican boilerplate (tax cuts for the investment class). Democrats are in denial that Trump is something different - would rather believe he's Pat Buchanan 20 years later despite some rather obvious indications he's not.

 

[Estebonrober]

Are we at the point where we are just talking past each other, standing across from the other side and just preaching to whichever choir is primed to be receptive?

Politics are tricky, people only have 1 vote and seldom do they have a chance to pick someone they 100% agree with. I myself could never vote for Trump unless the opponent was someone that I downright hated (I don't think any of the current candidates fit the bill)... but still there is a scenario where I could vote for him. Almost certain I will end up casting a protest vote, though I hope the Democrats will pull their head out of their A and offer a real alternative. My protest vote would probably help the Republicans, I don't want that but it's how I vote. There is a minimum threshold and below that is a non-starter. I vote anyways because downballet is more important / more REAL in my mind.

I could really care less about a wall or that much about immigration. There are some things I liked about Trump's message, like his attitude towards infrastructure (unfortunately, an empty promise). And yet, with all the dislike I feel towards Trump, I didn't like the way these kids were treated. When I see Democrats defending it, it motivates me to not vote for them, even where I rationally think I'd be cutting my nose to spite my face were I to vote Republican. It's not just Trump supporters who are watching and evaluating (or reverse the parties and still true).

At the risk of making this too personal... how am I supposed to view our parties when they look at my biracial children and one side sees a polluted white kid who represents the extinction of my legacy, the other side sees a minority majority on paper but a snarky pale face when walking down the street, with implications that the one drop rule has cleansed him of my white plague. I would like to assure both sides that my children are going to inherit my legacy, as will their children of whatever color they are, because I damn sure intend on being around to influence all of them. My grandbaby might have darker skin or kinky hair, but will have the same pattern baldness as me regardless. He or she will use my turn of phrases, body language and other quirks... if I have anything to do with. Which is the lesser evil for me, the side who seems to want to keep white people "pure", or the side who seems to think impure white people have been washed of their original sin? I don't want to get started on gender politics because that's where I really get frustrated. I'm emphasizing the radicals on both sides because I've encountered both sides and neither party seems interested in engaging the skeptics in the middle.

Here's a fact. Donald Trump won the election with less votes than Romney had when he lost his (in a landslide). The problem for neither side is that they have too many hardened opponents. They both seem locked right now into a determined battle to alienate anyone that is not drunk on kool-aid. Both parties are vulnerable right now. Trump won with the support of many disillusioned Democrats, but he pretty much abandoned the promises that appealed to them and has mostly delivered Republican boilerplate (tax cuts for the investment class). Democrats are in denial that Trump is something different - would rather believe he's Pat Buchanan 20 years later despite some rather obvious indications he's not.

Politics are funny. If you had posted this in the “what happened to wages?” Thread or half a dozen other places I would be more receptive to the point. I am naturally inclined to be receptive to it, but by posting it in this stupid dumpster fire of a thread I’m reluctant to accept the premise of your point.

Nobody on the left will ever demonize your children. A not insignificant number on the right would deport them or enslave them in camps.

This is where I come down on things so often. One side may be misguided and over zealous in trying tI help which can be problematic. The other side is completely indifferent or down right antagonistic toward all human compassion at this point.

Moderator Action: At CFC we try not to make generalized statements about a particular group. Forex: "All marshmallows are hateful" would be an example of this. This kind of thing is against the rules because it leads to hard feelings and trolling/flaming, etc. Let's not do it, k? --LM

 

[Nexlev]

It's very much a YMMV post, I'm not sure I'm right but I think the left might want to look around and ask if they maybe are a little out of touch with their average neighbor.

 

[Cloud_Strife]

Out of touch with whom? Those that think children should be forced into concentration camps because of their ethnicity?

 

[JPetroski]

Nobody on the left will ever demonize your children.

You see no irony posting this in this particular thread?

 

[Estebonrober]

You see no irony posting this in this particular thread?

none. I mean very clearly no one will demonize his children for being born. Quite contrary to what quite a few on the right would do.

these boys acted like hooligans. Being called out for that is not the same at all good sir.

 

[JPetroski]

"OK."

 

[Estebonrober]

It's very much a YMMV post, I'm not sure I'm right but I think the left might want to look around and ask if they maybe are a little out of touch with their average neighbor.

I actually think you are right. Political correctness polls terribly with basically the entire population. The thing is that there is a lot of nuance to that reality. The majority of the population don’t hate and don’t want policies that make life difficult for people born into minority status of whatever cause. They also don’t want to feel afraid to speak about life either.

Political correctness goes both ways too. I’m not able to talk at my church about how I feel about certain topics. I would be personae non grata if I did and that’s basically a 180 degree reversal of the political correctness conservatives complain about.

Part of the reason I took such exception to these particular kids is I went to catholic school and they make me ashamed. The chaperones should have been better.

 

[Nexlev]

Out of touch with whom? Those that think children should be forced into concentration camps because of their ethnicity?

Out of touch, imo, with the grey shade of the black/white racial divide among other things.

Out of touch with the number of people who believe children are in concentration camps, or that those camps are substantially different from the concentration camps under Obama.

Out of touch with the number of people who think what Democrats offer on the topic of gender conformance is the right path forward, or on gender more broadly.

Basically I'm one of those people who think Democrats have gone bat-ish on the issue of identity. Time will tell

none. I mean very clearly no one will demonize his children for being born. Quite contrary to what quite a few on the right would do.

these boys acted like hooligans. Being called out for that is not the same at all good sir.

This may not move your needle, but I can tell you my son has been bullied at school on both the basis of being white, and on the basis of being native. Not by white kids. I don't feel much love or loyalty from white people either, I'm sure they treat me better than they would if I were black, but to be embraced by the right white people I had to hide certain things about myself (my former poverty, my experience with trailer parks) that I don't particularly LIKE hiding. BL I can't trust people who are bound and determined to see me as an enemy and right now with the hubris of educated liberal mostly white urban dwellers, I see them as a bigger threat and often they mistake policies that will hurt my interests for those that will help theirs.

 

[Farm Boy]

If the fundamental power struggle over a policy at play is the economics of production vs the economics of service and consumption, they might not be wrong about thier interest simply being in zero summing you down. Real politic people are fun like that if you think that's who you're dealing with.

The terms liberal and conservative get used in that conversation to describe party positions. It's one of those situations where the terms aren't right.

 

[Manfred Belheim]

You see no irony posting this in this particular thread?

Well he's already said his children are biracial so it's probably correct. They're not (spit) white after all.

 

[Estebonrober]

This may not move your needle, but I can tell you my son has been bullied at school on both the basis of being white, and on the basis of being native. Not by white kids. I don't feel much love or loyalty from white people either, I'm sure they treat me better than they would if I were black, but to be embraced by the right white people I had to hide certain things about myself (my former poverty, my experience with trailer parks) that I don't particularly LIKE hiding. BL I can't trust people who are bound and determined to see me as an enemy and right now with the hubris of educated liberal mostly white urban dwellers, I see them as a bigger threat and often they mistake policies that will hurt my interests for those that will help theirs.

Well for me to understand your position at all you are going to have to elaborate on this one. Native American? You want to vote for GOP? Really? How are democrats hurting you exactly?

 

[Estebonrober]

Meanwhile from the left this is what we see when we see CNN.

CNN (1/13/19) has an anonymously sourced hit piece out today on Bernie Sanders, claiming that at a meeting in Elizabeth Warren’s home on December 18, 2018, he told her “a woman can’t win” the presidency.

https://fair.org/home/cnns-sanders-hit-piece-doesnt-pass-the-smell-test/

Every major news outlet has spent significant amounts of time slamming the two progressive candidates. There is no shortage of contempt for the progressive camp in any major media company. Its pretty obvious why once you look into funding and power brokering in the US these days.

 

[Nexlev]

Well for me to understand your position at all you are going to have to elaborate on this one. Native American? You want to vote for GOP? Really? How are democrats hurting you exactly?

I'm not native and I wasn't trying to claim who natives would vote for.

I keep editing my response because I'm not sure how to respond to the last question. The national party platform does not appeal to me at all, democrats in my region are a lot more appealing and moderate. As far as how they are hurting me, many of them believe or only say that they view white males as a target to take down. The various structural policies they want to bring to accomplish that, I'm skeptical they will only bring down white men, but still I don't think they will make my son's future brighter nor in the end my daughters.

It's also not only about identity, I started out on the wrong foot with liberals who are less compromising on some environmental issues than I am. For a long time I could vote for the national party despite that but when they started moving left on all fronts it was too much.

Edit: I don't usually engage in this much back and forth but I'm enjoying it even if minds aren't changed

 

[abradley]

According to my family I am part Native American, but unlike Ms Warren I've never tried using it as a means of getting a step up on others.

 

[bernie14]

23&me has me at 1.7% native american

 

[Estebonrober]

I'm not native and I wasn't trying to claim who natives would vote for.

I keep editing my response because I'm not sure how to respond to the last question. The national party platform does not appeal to me at all, democrats in my region are a lot more appealing and moderate. As far as how they are hurting me, many of them believe or only say that they view white males as a target to take down. The various structural policies they want to bring to accomplish that, I'm skeptical they will only bring down white men, but still I don't think they will make my son's future brighter nor in the end my daughters.

It's also not only about identity, I started out on the wrong foot with liberals who are less compromising on some environmental issues than I am. For a long time I could vote for the national party despite that but when they started moving left on all fronts it was too much.

Edit: I don't usually engage in this much back and forth but I'm enjoying it even if minds aren't changed

So I would argue that the idea that white males are a target to take down the point is that it is time to stop propping their systemic racism up. Think like Fair Housing Act never being enforced. Start penalizing real estate companies for not showing houses to minorities or banks for charging higher interest rates for similarly credit rated minorities. Judicial system that chooses not to prosecute white boys but goes after African american boys with knives out. These kinds of things. That's not attacking you as much as leveling the playing field. The idea that its attacking white males is paranoid right wing talking points working their magic.

 

[luiz]

none. I mean very clearly no one will demonize his children for being born. Quite contrary to what quite a few on the right would do.

these boys acted like hooligans. Being called out for that is not the same at all good sir.

They were the most well behaved group, by far, in that situation. And they were the only kids. Yet they were singled out by virtually the entire left, and large segments of society in general, as targets for hate, culminating in death threats against themselves and their families.

They were subject to hate while far more odious adults involved in the exact same incident were given a pass, just because of the racial identities of the adults and of the kids. So your point kinda fails big time.

If you call the kids "hooligans", what do you call the Black Hebrew Israelites? What do you call Philips and his merry gang of clown-protesters-liars-provocators?

BTW, you are being disingenuous and you know it when you say the boys were "called out" (the puritan witch-hunter's term of choice nowadays) for behaving as hooligans. They were demonized for their reaction to Phillips, not anything else, and it turns out they actually reacted just fine to Phillips and his senseless provoking.