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Co-op da Whoop #4: Dario I½

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by Silu, Apr 6, 2010.

  1. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    ^Heh. Well, it's Marathon and I've had games where the world has gone to hell on pollution alone - even without nukes. I'm pretty sure we'll be covered in desert in no time. Still, a novel idea :D

    Furthermore, I don't think we have hammers to spare on nuking the sea when we have an enemy as huge as this to tackle. They will most likely start planning a war immediately after the forced peace runs out so we have to prepare our attacks so that we strike before them. I have no idea how many "rounds" of wars this will take but it seems plausible for now as the first strike did have a devastating effect on their empire as far as power rating and their game plan goes.

    You know what's the most miserable thing? They now have the tools to build nukes and with their production bonuses I'm sure death will rain on our land as soon as the next war starts. We're nowhere near Laser... or atleast near enough so that we could reliably make our way there before the next war.

    As far as Charlemagne and his research goes; We gave him the order to research Bio way way way before we got to the point that it became important for us to research it. His BPT is horrible and there's no way he can come up with anything that will make a difference (research times are some 100 turns on average for any given tech).
     
  2. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    War. War never changes.

    The Russians waged war to gather slaves and wealth.

    Shaka built a glorious empire from his lust for gold and territory.
    Spoiler :



    Joao shaped a battered Portugal into a production superpower.
    Spoiler :



    But war never changes.

    The end of the world occurred pretty much as we had predicted. Too many humans, not enough space or resources to go around. The details are trivial and pointless, the reasons, as always, purely human ones.

    The earth was nearly wiped clean of life. A great cleansing, an atomic spark struck by human hands, quickly raged out of control. Spears of nuclear fire rained from the skies. Continents were swallowed in flames and fell beneath the boiling oceans. Humanity was almost extinguished, their spirits becoming part of the background radiation that blanketed the earth.

    A quiet darkness fell across the planet, lasting many years. Few survived the devastation. When the great darkness passed, the remaining battered inhabitants emerged to begin their lives again.

    The scars left by the war have not healed to this day. And the Earth has not forgotten.
     
  3. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    Ööööööööhmmmm :dubious:

    Are we to assume that you're giving up?
     
  4. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    There's no swimming in the heavy water, no singing in the acid rain

    To the end.

    So yea, if it hasn't come across already, this game was strenuous, taxing, arduous... call it whatever you want but it was just simply plain outright hard to play. Luckily we've got a few fallback co-op games we go to once we're too stressed out. We played Settlers, tried our savvy in Europa Universalis 3 and back in the day we built massive rail systems in OpenTTD. All good fun, and certainly something you wanna go to when your games stretch out to 20+ hours.

    Anyhow; War was on with short pauses in between with us being the aggressors in a nuclear war. Shacal was WHEOOHRN again so we had to move fast. We had no intercontinental trade and our research efforts were no match for a continent-sized AI conglomerate but we tried. We set our obsolete terrorist stacks ready around the coasts of Zulaya and prepared.



    Deity Shaka, being no slouch, set up new capital stacks which we located and laid plans to destroy on the first turns of war. Those stacks were imperative to destroy because we had no chance in a landwar.



    Later in 1636, it was time to cry havoc, and let slip the dogs of war once again. This time it would not be without repercussion.

    A large number of Zulayan huge coastal cities burned.



    In 1638 AD, I was the one to feel the sting. As they now had nukes and we didn't have SDI, the outcome was rather gruesome. Shiraz, formerly known as Paris was the first to feel the pain as it was blasted back to the level in which it was captured from De Gaulle back in the day. Heroic Epic destroyed, improvements gone. Shiraz would take a long time to recover.



    1640: Death rained on the persian core, destroying matured cities and my production capacity along with them. They had the finesse of striking at cities with high production as if to stop me from producing any more units. Their plan succeeded, as I was forced to recover. Heck, even plans to wipe out GK were nuked to smithereens.



    Yeah, they nuked our troops in Tiflis.

    We soon took peace again and in 1686 AD noticed that Pericles was speeding towards a culture win with his Creative Constructions. All his cities landlocked, Athens was merely 45 turns away from legendary at this point. His last city was way behind though, so it was not too worrying but still we had to prepare for this alternative as well.



    Silu actually convinced me to play a strategy which I'd never tried before in practice. We went for naval superiority. I mean, we know we can't take on their tech-edge on land but a Battleship is as good as it gets and Destroyers can spot those nuke subs before they reach us so why not? This game was full of "firsts" anyway so why not do something as asinine as naval superiority while we were on it? Jeez.



    Snap of Persia proper in 1759 AD:



    Wee bit more deserted than before the nuclear war.

    Anyhow, on the same turn war was once again declared and our intrepid terrorist squads scrambled to raze as much as they could as fast as they could. Uruk razed, Zulu islands next to our continent captured and a few other major cities on their continent razed.





    Prepping for a landwar I had started building some troops, here's the stack compiling:



    Naval superiority actually worked, who knew? Anyhow, we controlled the seas and virtually no missile subs got through and their scout ships save for Stealth Destroyers were all sunk.



    My apologies for missing the spanish war but it was so fast and uneventful that it didn't matter. GK dead, Izzy renounced the big boys and once we signed peace with them, she was willing to bend over. Goodie, a beachhead. And here is something you don't see every day, compliments of Shaka himself. I mean, look at this stack? It has like 400 units in it. No idea why it's located there but it's probably a remnant of their war on Perilgamesh, strengthened tenfold. I lined some 10 nukes in Santiago just for that.



    1772 AD endgame takes shape as we win UN chair.



    1784 the horn sounds again and a barrage of nukes heads towards Sparta. Notice how many nukes he had reserved in there? Pays off to strike first, big guy. Sparta burned. A couple of other cities were burned on the first turn of this war as well.



    1785 AD was actually the first time Persepolis was hit by a nuke. Imagine that it held clean so far into the game.

    1787, Spain is a wasteland ridden with nuclear waste. Deserts dominate the scenery and tank squadrons control the land.



    Calculated, our votes are enough with larger cities and theirs razed. Diplomatic win!



    End screens!



    Built...



    ...122 Nukes.

    Killed...



    ...quite a few units more advanced that we could ever build.

    Here you can tell the years we declared war. Notice the nosedive Shaka took on the last turns of the game. That was Sparta. Pfft.



    And finally, here is what Persia was reduced to:





    I urge you to compare that last screenshots to some of the shots from earlier on. I mean, it was a paradise for towns with all those lush rivers and flat. Now? Just a wasteland like Spain.

    What a game. I'm just so happy that it's finally over. I mean, without lying I could tell you that 85% of the time we played I was ready to throw in the towel and quit. This was all thanks to Silu and his persistence on the matter that we finally managed to pull through. I have never thrown my empire in the trash like that nor have I ever waged a modern war like that in Civ. Heck, I haven't had to carry two economies for a good part of the game but this was no ordinary game.

    Thank bejeebus that it's over.

    Next up, Ragnagawa on Immortal - laid back bashing.
     
  5. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    To the end
    WARNING: VERY IMAGE HEAVY

    So finally, after a detour to other of our favorite coop games since this one was such a major PITA (guess which!), we got around to finish it.

    The first strike had been given, there was no turning back now. We were basically deadlocked into a perpetual cycle of 10 turns of uneasy peace, after which there were immediate war preparations across the ocean and we had to scramble to not be struck by an equally devastating first strike ourselves.

    Even though we had struck a mighty blow to the Shacal navy, we were no match for their tech superiority and Deity bonuses on the seas yet. So we were forced to resort to terrorist tactics once again. Basically all of our growing production capabilities were diverted towards Submarines, measly Transport squads, and Tacnukes. And Tacnukes. Shacal already had their SDI, and Perilgamesh were nearing theirs quickly. In 1636AD, we had enough payload in position to cause some damage, and decided to go for it before the enemy would declare first and devastate our glass cannon offensive.

    Some preparations:

    Spoiler :





    Some results a few hours after we delivered the bad news across the sea:

    Spoiler :



    Remember kids, fallout destroys flood plains, turning lush flood plains towns into useless foodless desert. So long, the prosperity of Spain.




    And this:



    Yeah, not so good news. Once the pride and joy of Persian manufacturing prowess, Shiraz was now a pile of radioactive waste, its Heroic Epic lying in ruins. We were basically defenseless against the counterstrike - no real navy and no SDI. At least we razed six of their most productive cities in our first strike.

    We had been getting serious suckouts from the UN elections - dodging huge bullets like the Nuke ban or Enviromentalism adoption. This was our biggest Neo-moment:



    Genghis Khan, I take back all the bad words I've called you!

    Production-wise, no nation had anything on Portugal. Of course, because of lack of trades, HUGE "foreign" corporation expenses (around 500gpt) and battling War Weariness (our first strike gave US around 1000 war weariness right out of the gates) I was not teching at all and hovering around the strike-point at 0gpt 0%0%0% but that was of no real consequence anymore.



    So we finally got another fragile peace, during which we were planning to take control of things for once. Maximum science was directed towards the research of Laser to combat ICBMs that already had turned half of Persia into a slagheap, and to battle Tacnukes an ambitious plan was devised. Remember how we have already razed almost ten of their best coastal cities? This means we might actually stand a chance of ruling the seas. And to actually stop the more evasive missiles...




    That's right, we plan on making an impenetrable naval wall to avoid any and all Tacnuke assaults from Submarines and Missile Cruisers (for the latter we don't have the tech to build ourselves). Basically every naval city was pumping nonstop navy, while the inland cities were pumping nonstop Tacnukes.

    And then we finally got the all-clear to start wreaking some serious, controlled havoc this time around:



    Preparations were in place by 1759AD:

    Spoiler :





    Oh right - Pericles was about 50 turns from a Cultural victory. Mycenae was the city lagging behind, so...




    MAKE IT ALL GLOW!

    Spoiler :



    (Uruk was legendary as well, we couldn't see how close he was for his other two)




    In the immediate wake, the hardened battle medic, Sun Tzu, was victim of a cowardly (if we're allowed to use that term!) ICBM strike which managed to slip through our SDI:



    And how did we fare on the seas? They tried, and tried, and tried to get a nuclear counterstrike force through, but our naval wall stood fast and eventually allowed us to move in to blockade their remaining and resettled coastal cities. Global warming on the left, naval blockade on the right, the starvation was starting to kick in for the Shacals.




    Oh and the 12 I had of these guys (well, a couple were nuked at some points) were absolutely VITAL in spotting incoming nuclear-armed submarines. I've never been so glad to have obsolete units around!



    Despite our almost complete naval blockade, the battle was ground down to a stalemate. We had no chance of making a land invasion, and they had no chance of getting out of their continent. Eventually we eliminated GK as an afterthought, which made Isabella break free! We promptly made peace with Shacal again (this time, THEY paid us), and accepted her capitulation.

    With the support of the Spanish, and our dominating population advantage due to our corporations and nuking the bejesus out of the opposition, we were counting on a UN vote to finally end this. That's how democracy works, right? If your opponents have too many votes, launch 50 nuclear warheads to eliminate most of them. That way, they have less votes!

    This was due not a moment too soon; this is what the Portuguese heartlands look like after a magic fairy wand strike or two (All of those watermills? Desert, not Flood Plains):



    Then, in a simultaneous rush of dread and relief, we saw what lurked on the Spanish border. Hot damn, if something like THIS had landed on our continent before we had our trusty nukes around...



    Let that sink in for a moment. And another moment. Those who are too lazy to count, that's around 400 Zulu units in Sparta and the surrounding tiles. 400. And that's just the main stack, there are plenty of others around in their heartlands (some of which we mistook for their actual SoD)...

    A couple of turns before the final vote was due, we wanted to get some long-overdue revenge for the ill deeds of the Zulu. Too bad I wasn't the one in our team to press that red button, I can only imagine how good it felt (to be fair, I had had my fair share of smaller moments like that to this point). And what still lurked there after the dust cleared?



    Good thing that we were in range to raze that base of doom...

    So they (well, at least Shaka, Pacal still rained down a dozen or two Tacs on our Spanish holdings) had to resort mostly to conventional means to retaliate. This is a tiny part of it, of the less successful type:



    This, is of a more successful type.



    And finally, in 1788AD, the game ended. No, we didn't win. In this game, there are no winners.



    Some endgame stats. I feel out of breath just from writing this so I'll just mostly let them speak for themselves. Can you spot the four war declarations against Shacal from the power graph? How about the wonder screen, when was the last time the whole tech tree was teched and all the wonders fit on a single page without a slider?






    My name is Jack Bauer Silu and this is the longest day game of my life.
     
  6. Fleme

    Fleme Obey the Kitty!

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    Just for the record, if it wasn't obvious enough already: I :):):):)ing hated that game.
     
  7. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Great one guys!

    That was a truly monstrous SoD Shaka had there. Can't wait for part II :p
     
  8. r_rolo1

    r_rolo1 King of myself

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    @Fleme

    Really? Can't see why :p But seriously, when you need to play TT to relieve stress ... it is a sure sign things aren't allright :p
     
  9. Moroktonos

    Moroktonos Philosopher

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    You guys rock. While I've never played a co-op game in my life, between the absurdity of the situations in which you end up and the hilariousness of the subsequent write ups (and you guys are good players too!), this is possibly one of the best reads on this whole forum.

    The 'protective underrated' thread might win for sheer comic value, though, but not for the right reasons.

    Wait... really? I thought this was sort of a joke... But AWESOME! Kill everone with BESERKURAI! Great starting techs... or not.
    I was expecting Kublabella.

    I wouldn't mind seeing the foreign advisor 'glance' screen... how many 'you nuked us' penalties did you end up with?
     
  10. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    :D

    Awesome! Makes me wanna wage a modern-era war :D

    BTW, was it I who suggested Ragnar/Tokugawa?
     
  11. CivEikka

    CivEikka Warlord

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    Sisu.. That's needed to finish a game like that.
    Way to go guys, you really rank it up!
     
  12. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    Brilliant game you two.

    @Silu what version of Settlers did you get the screenshot from above from.
     
  13. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    Thanks for the interest! As hard as the game was, I think the hardest thing about it towards the end was to get Fleme to play it :lol:

    There you go; this one is almost at the end, feel free to add a dozen or two nukes to that :D The lowest number, Shaka's -123 towards Fleme, consists of:

    +1 Past events have brought our people together! :)lol:)
    -1 We are worried about your vassals!
    -3 You declared war on our friend!
    -4 This war spoils our relationship!
    -9 You declared war on us!
    -12 You nuked our friend!
    -15 You razed one :)lol:) of our cities!
    -80 You nuked us!

    Spoiler :


    Quite funny that even Charlie had -20 towards Shaka for nuking his friends :)

    This makes you want to wage modern war? :crazyeye: You crazy person you...

    It's from Settlers II: 10th Anniversary Edition. Best there is IMO :)
     
  14. Yared

    Yared That Guy

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    How did you manage to get a happy face from Fleme when he's a human? :lol:
     
  15. Silu

    Silu Deity

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    I gave him a cookie.
     
  16. DampRain

    DampRain Prince

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    Good job guys! I like the naval superiority idea.

    What I liked the msot though was Shaks graph falling so much (round the time the 400 stack died? :)).
     
  17. CreeDakota

    CreeDakota King

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    Impressive! That was an Epic game! From the brink of being overrun by barbarian in 3000 BC to Nuking down a 400unit SOD!


    WOW!

    I was ready to give you two props just for not giving up!
     
  18. Brian Shanahan

    Brian Shanahan Permanoob

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    @Silu, thanks I played the original and the DS versions, that looks way better. I actually thought it was a freeware 3d retool.
     
  19. georgjorge

    georgjorge Deity Wannabe

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    You guys are awesome! And I can imagine how tiresome such a game is...

    Nice of Shaka to leave 400 (!!!) units in one stack even after having been nuked so many times...


    Do you think such a strategy would work in single player as well, or is the division of work (one techer, one producer) needed to put it over the top?

    And how many nukes did you need per city after they had SDI?
     
  20. bobbyboy29

    bobbyboy29 I was saying boo-urns...

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    Great game guys, although I can tell that it was arduous, when you nuke the world like that I suppose it can't feel like a great win. However, I was overjoyed to see for the first time a game in which the navy played such a big part! (i've had only one game like this where naval superiority mattered) IMO the biggest failing of Civ4 is to not highlight the importance of a navy in warfare. As this game highlighted, if you control the seas, the enemy can't reach you!

    Great game guys, I hope that despite this slugfest you continue this fantastic series!:goodjob:
     

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