Discussion in 'Civ6 - General Discussions' started by Ziad, Sep 3, 2019.
Kupe is certainly going to be stronger from this.
I hope so--to me that's probably the most interesting things about the district.
I'm fairly certain. They would have otherwise included the other bonuses for Fishing Boats etc .. like Mausoleum.
Thank you. I corrected the OP and worded it so that it can either replace or add to the existing bonus.
So without taking aqueduct into account, coastal cities with lighthouse can match a fresh water start, or beat it when seaports roll around.
Just need to find out if it's additive to the existing +1 or a replacement.
Either way it reduces disparity.
I would imagine it's not a leap to +3 housing, lest you achieve grave disparity between a harbor and a commercial hub, which may already need to buffed now that harbor is basically getting buffed into a super-combo encampment, commercial hub, and industrial zone.
But I guess anything to disrupt the tyranny of the Mountain King civs!
Hm I rewatched the video. Ed says Mausoleum buffs coastal tiles PER city. Might be all of them.
That would be OP...
It is. I have asked carl, the QA guy in the streams who goes by the name Borderline, in TheGameMechnaics's discord about the Mausoleum buff if the buff applied to all coastal tiles or adjacent ones. He responded that it applied to the terrain type "coast", which I assume is all tiles.
I would imagine it works like Chichen Itza or Petra, and affects the appropriate tiles in the city with the Wonder, not Empire wide.
Well either way I'm building it anyway haha
It is just in one city, he says it in the video right after he reads out the +1 science, +1 faith, +1 culture part at 1:17 of the video.
You are correct, he says "for a city" Just double checked the video there. It would be seriously OP if that bonus was empire wide after all.
I wonder if Dennis ever gets tired of being called Ed.
1. Don’t lose your minds just yet, particularly about disaster repairs. Based on past experiences, I expect there are more balance changes to be announced. This is just a taste. FXS said they had a handle on repair costs - I’d be surprised if there aren’t some more specific tweaked directed at this.
2. Great Admirals. They didn’t need a buff, but the buff is welcome. The buffs will make them a bit more competitive with Great Merchants which is good. So, yeah, GAs were fine as they were but will be fine with the changes too.
3. Wonders. MoH sounds good, I expect the other Sea Wonders may have been buffed too, but these are hardly game changing changes. Losing the GA extra charge is fine and keeping the GE extra charge is also fine. The best Wonders are still Pyramids, Colosseum etc.
4. Coastal City Buffs. I think we have to assume most of the buffs are additional to existing buffs. So, let’s be clear what’s going on: the buffs to Campuses, Lighthouse, Fisheries, Fishing Boats etc are all directed at one thing - “evening out” Coastal Cities compared to Land Cities or making them more like Land Cities. This is very similar to what they did with the Production boosts in the last patch - yes, they raised average production a little, but mostly they just made all the improvements the same as mines.
So, is this last one good or bad? Well...it’ll certainly make Coastal Cities “better”. I don’t think they’ll be OP, but they will certainly be competitive with Land Cities once you get a Harbour up.
But it also has the potential to make the game feel “flatter”, ie everything feels just the same.
Civ VI sort of had a design where Land Cities were about hammers and science, and Coastal Cities were about gold. I liked that idea overall, but I think these changes might lose that design. Like the last patch, the strategy is again “more hammers! Everywhere! All the time!”
Or maybe these changes plus whatever else comes in the Patch might give Coastal Cities a new niche. If you build your Coastal City in fresh water, you get max housing and can then further buff that with Lighthouse (+2 or +3) and Fisheries to get very very tall Cities.
Or maybe the changes don’t really change the gold v. hammer niche much - Land Cities got a big hammer buff in the last patch. These changes aren’t buffing Coastal Hammers or Science that much really - maybe the changes just make Coastals more “competitive” v Land Cities but still leave them basically the “Gold” Cities.
Anyway. Guess we’ll see.
Likewise. I see hurricanes frequently on the map, and may have to reroute my navy to avoid them. But hurricanes almost never hit my cities. The worst damage I have seen has come from tornadoes and blizzards. And also the occasional volcanic eruption, if my city or district is immediately adjacent when it erupts. But if I place them two hexes away, the eruptions generally provide more upside than downside to nearby tiles.
I think the best way to induce more coastal cities is to do some kind of buff to Ocean tiles. e.g. If there was a nice improvement that you could put on all Ocean tiles, giving you, say 3 food or 3 production... you would definitely want a piece of that action. Or make Harbors, Lighthouses, and/or Shipyards give a little extra to Ocean tiles (in addition to what they already do).
In my Olympic Pantheon mod, I have Poseidon give +3 production on ocean tiles empire-wide... which is a good bonus, but you HAVE to settle on the coast to effectively reach those tiles.
PS I also think Fisheries should be separated from Liang... just let it be an improvement that any old builder can make. We don't have a governor control farm-building, which would be the analogous land-based improvement.
I’m sorry. I really am. But the more I think about it, the more I really dislike the changes to the Shipyard.
Shipyard gives +1 production to unimproved coastal tiles. So, build a Shipyard, and a fish tile gets +1 hammer. But then you lose the hammer if you build a fishing boat. And then get it back again at Colonialism (which gives boats +1 hammer).
Shipyard +1 hammer also doesn’t stack with God of the Seas Pantheon or Liang’s Fisheries, which basically undermines the bonuses from both.
This is also in top of the changes to Harbour Specialists, that changed them from being a sneaky way to squeeze out a little more science, to being basically the same as a bad sea tile.
I’m sure the maths here is that the Shipyard changes add a critical hammer that lifts some production v time / cost curve ... but it really sucks. It just seems unintuitive and un-fun.
And that’s a pity, because a lot of other Coastal changes look really good - particularly Admirals and Veterans Card.
I think you guys should literally just drop the Shipyard change. If Coastals really need that extra hammer, just add it to something else. And while they’re at it, please reverse the Harbour (and Encampment) specialists changes, or at least have Harbour specialists give Hammers too (... hey, maybe that could be the couple of extra hammers FXS are looking for?).
Thank you for the shipyard changes. They are inspired! They give us meaningful choices in coastal towns, make using Liang way more impactful and fun, and give a little of the masterstroke of IZ planning from the last patch to the coast!
Very funny. Fine that you disagree, but I honestly don’t get how the Shipyard gives you a meaningful choice?
Do you mean that for Sea Resources you’ll have to choose between + 1 food and +1 gold +0.5 housing v +1 extra hammer? I just don’t think that’s a very meaningful choice - you’re basically always going to choose the Fishing Boat ... and then be sad you lose the extra hammer ... only to get it back again at Colonialism?
Or do you mean it won’t make sense to build Shipyards in every City? But then, that’s already the case... it’s a total waste of gold building shipyards in every Coastal City because it’s just over investment ... how many Frigates do people need to build?
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