• Civilization 7 has been announced. For more info please check the forum here .

Colin Powell: Former US secretary of state dies of Covid complications

Aiken_Drumn

Deity
Supporter
Joined
Oct 16, 2021
Messages
3,031
Location
NES/FG/SF Activity:Arguing the toss
https://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-us-canada-58957273

Former US Secretary of State Colin Powell has died aged 84 of Covid-19 complications, his family has announced.

He was a former top military officer who rose to become the first African-American secretary of state in 2001 under Republican George W Bush.

"We have lost a remarkable and loving husband, father, grandfather and a great American," a statement said.

"We want to thank the medical staff... for their caring treatment," it added.

The statement said that he had been fully vaccinated against Covid.
George W Bush was among the first to pay tribute to "a family man and a friend" who "was such a favourite of presidents that he earned the Presidential Medal of Freedom - twice".

Mr Powell, a moderate Republican who broke with his party to endorse Barack Obama in 2008, became a trusted military adviser to a number of leading US politicians.

He also saw service and was wounded in Vietnam, an experience that later helped define his own military and political strategies.

However, for many he is associated with the role he played in garnering support for the Iraq war, admitting a speech to the United Nations Security Council using faulty intelligence was "a blot" on his record.

"It was painful. It's painful now," Mr Powell told ABC News in 2005.
 
Fully vaccinated, but his body doesn't really produce antibodies so it's very limited effectiveness.

If you think about it, the Republican Party ended up killing him, by preventing herd immunity. Just like Herman Cain, who died to attend a Trump rally.
 
He seemed generally worthy of respect, yes.
 
Aw, come on. That's not really fair. He believed what he was saying at the time. He had bad information, but I don't feel like he was lying us into war (unlike others). His mistake had a horrible result, & it hung over him as a burden.

He admitted as such, & said we needed to never let it happen again. But I don't think it's fair to call him a war criminal. He had my respect, for whatever that's worth.
 
"Sorry, I was just doing my job and was too incompetent to really know what I was doing" is not nearly a good enough excuse for war crimes.
I respect that take, but if he was fed bad information with an agenda to get a result, as *many* people were, I can't really hold him at fault for it. Wrong, yes; "war criminal", I dispute. JMO though. Not really trying to change your mind. Just weighing in.
Did he have the vaccine?
He did. And was apparently about to get a booster. But he had a ton of underlying conditions i wasn't aware of until now. The vaccine is not 100% protection, but it's better than nothing. Like how wearing a seatbelt won't 100% prevent you from dying in a car crash, but greatly increases your odds of surviving.
 
Last edited:
This guy was one of the main players who presented faked intelligence in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. "He didn't know what was happening" is an incredibly poor excuse for decisions that lead to the unnecessary deaths of 700,000 civilians. He was a part of the chain of command - he was responsible and I hope he burns in hell.

Americans never prosecute their war criminals. The least we can do is point out the hypocrisy when they finally croak
 
I always remember Gen. Powell from the Gulf War and not his tenure as Secretary of State. The good old days, eh?
 
This guy was one of the main players who presented faked intelligence in order to justify the invasion of Iraq. "He didn't know what was happening" is an incredibly poor excuse for decisions that lead to the unnecessary deaths of 700,000 civilians. He was a part of the chain of command - he was responsible and I hope he burns in hell.
He was responsible, & later admitted he was responsible, & regretted it. All I'm saying is that he didn't know the information he was presenting was fabricated at the time he presented it. Others did. Others in that administration used him. And he bears that responsibility, & admitted as such later, & as I said, deeply regretted it. I just don't hold people who were lied to & used to the same standard as those who lied to them & used them.

That goes for many of the people in Congress who voted for the Authorization of Military Force, & also, the vast majority of the American people. They were lied to, by people who knew the truth & made up the lies, to achieve the result they wanted.

*Those* people - the originators of the lies - are war criminals. The ones who believed the lies, including Powell, most of Congress, & the American people, & acted upon or supported those lies, based on the information they were given at the time, I hold less accountable (though not blameless). The perpetrators of the lies, yes, I agree with you; the ones lied to, I disagree with you. But, I respect your opinion on the subject. I've said my piece, so I'll leave it at that.
 
Those observations are fair, but unless the administration at large are brought to justice the exact legal standing of these nuances will remain an unknown. (And clearly that will never happen, etc.)

I set the bar fairly high when it comes to war crimes. "I didn't know", "It was them and not me" don't cut it as an excuse unless backed up with a rock solid legal defense. And correct me if I'm wrong, but I have not seen Powell try to expose those who lied in any sort of legal setting. If he was taken advantage of, then it seems there was plenty of opportunity to attempt to bring those who wronged him (and hundreds of thousands of others) to justice.

I want to make it clear to anyone reading that my position on accusations of war crimes is the same across the board; the entire administration has blood on their hands unless somebody stands up and tries to do what's right at some point. In such personal instances of bravery and moral integrity, it seems worthwhile to contemplate making an exception.. but with Powell I have seen no bravery and only an apology.

If you are a part of an administration that perpetrates war crimes, you go down with the ship. Doesn't matter if you're from North Korea, Burma, The United States, Russia, Belgium, Germany, or Canada. Your legacy does not deserve to exist, and if it does it should forever be negative
 
Oh don't worry. We'll all be savage trash to our grandchildren, should we do a good enough job that they're better than us. And they'll be just as accurate as we've been.
 
Aw, come on. That's not really fair. He believed what he was saying at the time. He had bad information, but I don't feel like he was lying us into war (unlike others). His mistake had a horrible result, & it hung over him as a burden.

He admitted as such, & said we needed to never let it happen again. But I don't think it's fair to call him a war criminal. He had my respect, for whatever that's worth.

Please for god's sake can we stop blaming 'bad intel'? They lied us into the war, the 10 Downing Street memo said the intel was fixed around invading.

heres an old intercept article, a link should appear on his tombstone

https://theintercept.com/2018/02/06...aq-fifteen-years-ago-and-what-he-told-the-un/
 
Last edited:
Aw, come on. That's not really fair. He believed what he was saying at the time. He had bad information, but I don't feel like he was lying us into war (unlike others). His mistake had a horrible result, & it hung over him as a burden.
He admitted as such, & said we needed to never let it happen again. But I don't think it's fair to call him a war criminal. He had my respect, for whatever that's worth.

Powell was reported to have resisted going to war for a long time since he was unconvienced.
Hes performance at the UN did little to convience most people
He should have remained resolute in hes opposition and then be removed by Rumsfield like the other Generals that stuck to their opposition.
 
Who is "they"?

He was SecyofState and you think he didn't know they were framing Saddam? The British knew. The list of 'they' is very long, we just elected one of them. And I suspect he was involved in the torture program, his job was telling other countries what we needed from them so he would have known about black sites. Pelosi knew, and when she got the power in the House she swept it under the rug. Bush and Powell have atoned, Trump is the villain.
 
Why grieve for that lying murderous POS and not for the thousands of victims of his lies?
 
He was SecyofState and you think he didn't know they were framing Saddam? The British knew. The list of 'they' is very long, we just elected one of them. And I suspect he was involved in the torture program, his job was telling other countries what we needed from them so he would have known about black sites. Pelosi knew, and when she got the power in the House she swept it under the rug. Bush and Powell have atoned, Trump is the villain.

Pelosi whipped votes against the Iraq war and got a majority of House Democrats to vote against it. ? And recently she also led to effort to repeal the AUMF.
 
Top Bottom