Natan35
Mayor of St. Natansburg
I remember when you posted the design. I thought you changed it, that's why i asked.
Colonialist Legacies: Histories of the New World | Colonial + Pre-Colonial civs
- Thread starter TPangolin
- Start date
Firebug
Not-so Great Engineer
We need a GPuzzle translator now.
TwoToneWyvern
Chieftain
Not sure if this is the right spot for this, but there might be a bug in your Inuit civ with the Events and Decisions.
The first is that the bow decision doesn't seem to activate when clicked. It'll spend your gold and magistrates, but won't appear in the Enacted Decisions portion, nor will it apply the EXP bonus.
The second possible bug is that there only seems to be one Inuit decision. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.
The first is that the bow decision doesn't seem to activate when clicked. It'll spend your gold and magistrates, but won't appear in the Enacted Decisions portion, nor will it apply the EXP bonus.
The second possible bug is that there only seems to be one Inuit decision. I'm not sure if that's intentional or not.
Well, I suck at explanations!
- Sometime ago, Zantonius Hamm (IIRC) realized that most of Colonialist Legacies covered Oceania's area from 1984, alongside Patria Grande; JFD's covered Eurasia and LITE was going to cover Eastasia.
- So we came up with the concept of them actually being those Autocratic organization.
- The joke lasted for two days or so, but Natan took it a bit too far. So when TPang posted SA's UU design, it mentioned it did more damage in CL territory, Natan took it as a genuine piece of what would be the army in that 1984 thing.
- As a result, he mentioned it as a reason to not use it with P&P and ExCE.
Natan35
Mayor of St. Natansburg
What the hell?!
Nathan has driven you all to insanity, maybe it's time for a break.
So that's why I don't get the natan event with CulDiv... oh well...
Also, any other plans for the next few weeks other then SA?
Urdnot_Scott
Sultan
Tpang, i hate to be the voice of criticism all the time, but do you not feel like a different bonus for the trade routes to cities with a courthouse would make more sense? Specifically a cultural yield? Right now, the potential +12 delegates is strong enough that one would nearly always go for a diplo victory, which makes one half of the UA and the entire UB almost useless. Like i love the overall design, but would it not all fit together much nicer if it was "cities with a courthouse generate tourism if receiving an internal trade route" or "double yields from great works in cities with a courthouse when receiving an internal trade route" or "Cities with a courthouse generate +1 great writer points if sending out/receiving an internal trade route"
Also, thematically speaking, a diplomacy focus just seems weird when the tourism focus works so well. Soith Africa is well known as a popular tourist destination and is certainly the tourism capital of Africa, so why only go half way with the tourism bonuses? I dont think theres much evidence which paints SA as particularly involved in global politics nor does she wield any disproportianate influence at the UN.
Just a thought.
Also, thematically speaking, a diplomacy focus just seems weird when the tourism focus works so well. Soith Africa is well known as a popular tourist destination and is certainly the tourism capital of Africa, so why only go half way with the tourism bonuses? I dont think theres much evidence which paints SA as particularly involved in global politics nor does she wield any disproportianate influence at the UN.
Just a thought.
Zantonius Hamm
Gay anime communist
Mm... agreed.
What the hell?!
Nathan has driven you all to insanity, maybe it's time for a break.
Yes. Yes he has driven us all insane.
TPangolin
Just the worst person
Specifically a cultural yield? Right now, the potential +12 delegates is strong enough that one would nearly always go for a diplo victory, which makes one half of the UA and the entire UB almost useless.
Like i love the overall design, but would it not all fit together much nicer if it was "cities with a courthouse generate tourism if receiving an internal trade route" or "double yields from great works in cities with a courthouse when receiving an internal trade route" or "Cities with a courthouse generate +1 great writer points if sending out/receiving an internal trade route"
Also, thematically speaking, a diplomacy focus just seems weird when the tourism focus works so well. Soith Africa is well known as a popular tourist destination and is certainly the tourism capital of Africa, so why only go half way with the tourism bonuses? I dont think theres much evidence which paints SA as particularly involved in global politics nor does she wield any disproportianate influence at the UN.
Just a thought.[/QUOTE]
I welcome criticism, and I'm all for it. I don't think your proposed amendments make too much sense despite your concerns however. I dislike the use of extreme hypotheticals when outlining why one believes something to be OP. Many civs, in the extreme right circumstances can be considered very powerful if situationally everything is perfect. You cite a potential +12 Delegates, but this essentially hinges on having both the Colossus and Petra + Information Era. You also have to realise that in order to do this, you'd need to have x amount of cities forfeiting 100% of the empire's external Trade Routes. Additionally, Courthouses cost +4 Maintenance, which would further add to the drain to the economy. I feel this balances out somewhat. One could just as easily say that you'd never go for anything other than a Diplo victory whilst playing as Venice (albeit this would be pretty disingenuous).
I don't find the Diplomacy focus weird at all. It's all about the symbolism as opposed to the realism. City-State Diplo focus is reoresentative of both earlier Colonial Times as the Cape Colony, and also peace-keeping missions within Africa and abroad. The Delegate focus is all about post Apartheid representation and the notion of a Rainbow nations (as is the title of the UA).
turingmachine
Emperor
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,438
But you don't have to forfeit external trade routes. The main problem, I see, is that you are rewarding delegates for something not permanent (like other people have done for capturing capitals). Trade Routes only last 10 turns. If I were to play this civ, I wouldn't be forfeiting external trade routes at all. Right before the vote I'd simply switch all my trade routes to courthouse cities; I'd have to spend 10 turns like that max before guaranteeing I win the vote.
Also, there is no scaling for the number of players. Even discounting the two wonders and not getting far enough tech wise to get all the 8th trade route, even with just 7 you can win the diplomatic vote with a standard number of players (even more so if you're doing smaller map sizes).
The only way I see it not being OP is if you're playing a game with 22+ civs.
shaglio
The Prince of Dorkness
Trade routes last 30 turns. There's less turns than that between WC voting, especially near the end of the game (game speed depending).
turingmachine
Emperor
- Joined
- May 4, 2008
- Messages
- 1,438
I mistyped, but it's the same problem. Knowing a vote is coming up, I'd just switch all my trade routes to get votes. For most of the game I wouldn't be sacrificing anything (and I'd also just quick buy courthouses then as well instead of keeping them in my cities the whole time).
The lack of scaling for the votes is also still a problem. Votes are based on number of players so the amount of votes needed for something also scales. However, the number of trade routes a player has is constant regardless of how big the game is. I know everyone loves to talk about 40+ civ giant maps these days, but with a standard sized map and the default number of players, even 6-8 extra delegates is enough to basically ignore the whole game except to win by voting.
I just don't really see any real strategy with this ability. I don't have to do anything but play long enough till I can quick buy a bunch of courthouses and then switch all my trade routes to these cities. My economy doesn't lose out till the very last 30 or so turns, which, who cares, I'm going to win anyway.
Edit: Actually, I don't think I did mistype. Doesn't the duration of trade routes depend on game speed? So is the ability only supposed to not be OP in Giant Earth, Max Players, Marathon games?
TPangolin
Just the worst person
I've been thinking for a while about imposing a Delegate Cap, but such an idea was met with strong opposition to those of suggested it to.
OrderofOlav
King of Procrastination
I don't see why people want to get rid of the delegate ability, I think it will be nice to have more of a say in the World Congress. Being able to repel dumb decisions without having to be nice with the AI to buy their votes. You could be diplomatic and still have most of your focus on stuff like war! ....yay!
Zantonius Hamm
Gay anime communist
But who can say South Africa is a very prominent diplomatic player? At least it makes sense in my Haile Selassie design, since he went out of his way to be an important LoN member and UN and OoAU founder.
Natan35
Mayor of St. Natansburg
I think you shouldn't add a delegate cap, but make the bonus useful only in numbers( 2 world congress delegates foe two trade routes, not 1 delegate per one trade route) .
Anyone who opposes, think twice, Plz.
Also, OoAU? LOL
OrderofOlav
King of Procrastination
Nelson was an advocate of diplomacy, he didn't try to resolve things with violence, he seemed to constantly want to try to make parties negotiate.
SuperWaffle247
Secretary General
What about the fact that Mandela was probably the most influential politician of the the last few decades? The fact that he inspired and advocated for others to use diplomatic solutions? His role in the non-aligned movement?
Diplomacy isn't just international organizations, and Tourism in game doesn't just represent tourism (I am certain that if it were not already taken by CSs that yield would be called Influence). We need more civs that interact with the World Congress. Mandela-led South Africa is a great choice.
Diplomacy isn't just international organizations, and Tourism in game doesn't just represent tourism (I am certain that if it were not already taken by CSs that yield would be called Influence). We need more civs that interact with the World Congress. Mandela-led South Africa is a great choice.
