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Colonialist Legacies' Tlingit for VP

Discussion in 'Mods Repository' started by pineappledan, Dec 10, 2018.

  1. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    The UU's SV icon didn't have mipmaps and caused the Noow's graphics code to abort. TPang, my dude...

    You’ll have to sit tight until late tonight, so I can update. At work now

    EDIT: update posted, same version number. Both components' SV icons work properly now.
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2019
    Viralvoid likes this.
  2. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    And why not to release this new civ for VP with icons from 'extraPromo_Atlas' available with VP since (2-17)

    extrapromoatlas.png
     
  3. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    @Asterix Rage, I love your promo icons, but none of them really match the 1 unique promotion in this mod. Tidal Raid gives +1 move after embarkation, and the base gold triangle is as good a fit as any of those other ones.

    I have integrated your custom icons with the new Inuit mod though. The new Talluk promotion uses one of your icons.
     
  4. Asterix Rage

    Asterix Rage Warlord

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    Ok ok ok. That's fine. I'm still wondering if the 'extraPromo_Atlas' feature is ignored or not. Seems it's not.
    PIVP v2 will bring few more.
    (For now, focus is on MUC of course)
     
  5. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    Hi, first of all, I'm enjoying this civ very much. However, I've got a couple of issues:
    1) It's possible to duplicate Xaa by embarking and moving over another unit. The duplicated unit even has all the promotions and experience of the original unit. Screenshots show it all:

    Spoiler Pics :



    2) Noow's build tooltip doesn't mention neither the defensive bonus nor the forest adjacency bonus. I included a picture of farm's tooltip to show what it should look like. You could also nitpick that it says 'Noow' instead of 'Construct a Noow'.

    Spoiler More pics :



    Edit: whoops, cut the farm's screenshot a bit too much, but I think everything that needs to be seen can be seen. :)
     
  6. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    Update: the duplicate bug also happens if you disembark and move over a unit.
    Spoiler Pics :


     
  7. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Sounds like kill() isn’t working in the latest version. There’s no way to preserve movement on embark, so every time the unit embarks/disembarks, it’s actually replaced by a carbon copy unit and the original is killed. I’ll take a look at it tonight
     
  8. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    I see. There is a mechanic that allows to disembark and embark at lower/no cost and it is unlocked by techs (navigation is one of them, IIRC). However, I don't think it's possible to make it work with promotions, at least not easily.

    Another thing I noticed: Xaa seem to have tje melee promotion line, is that working as intended?

    Edit: actually, regarding the duplication, I don't know if you even have to pass over another unit to do that anymore. It seems to happen sporadically in my game now.

    Edit 2: well, actually, now that I think about it, I think it started to always happen after navigation, which unlocks the cheaper embarking/disembarking in cities, and only when use that ability. I think before that I had to pass over a unit for that to happen.
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2019
  9. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Not intended. The unit is a musketman replacement from vanilla, and so it was a melee unit in the original mod. I overlooked that necessary change for VP compatibility.
    You guys are clever little buggers. I'm not sure if I managed to fix this entirely, but I tested the new version moving in and out of an industrial city and I managed to shut it down in that instance. I couldn't replicate the "over a unit" bug.
    Spoiler :
    upload_2019-5-5_8-8-37.png
    My game says "Build a Noow" rather than just "Noow", but okay. As for the adjacency stuff, that's an annotation thing for how the Improvement_YieldAdjacentFeature hooks into the UI, and I don't have control over that. If you need the improvement to UI then talk to Enginseer, Infixo or Gazebo; it's totally out of my wheelhouse.
     
  10. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    Awesome, thanks for the update! I don't suppose it would be savegame compatible, but I may as well just try to force it anyway.

    As for the Noow: that was partially my bad, because I the worker was standing on an already completed Noow when I took the screenshot, so there was nothing to be built, duh.
     
    Last edited: May 6, 2019
  11. Edaka

    Edaka King

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    Sorry for bugging you with a nitpick again, but I've just noticed that Noow's tooltip says it buffs nearby forests and jungles (at least that's my understanding).
    Spoiler Pic :

    Instead, I've found that it is actually buffed itself for every adjacent forest or jungle. So the correct sentence would be '+1 :c5production: Production for every adjacent Jungle and Forest.'
     
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  12. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  13. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  14. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    If the addition of custom civs gets off the ground, I would advocate for the addition of the Tlingit. It’s a culture and aesthetic that has never graced the civ franchise. So, I’d like to have some ideas on how to polish them up a bit

    I’m already contemplating changing how the noow interacts with units. I’m thinking I could lower the :c5strength:defence to just 10-15%, but instead of the +1 move to units that are on the tile they could get a unique promotion that is added/removed by moving on/off the tile. The promotion could add ranged defense and a chance to withdraw from melee, or some other combination of bonuses to represent the battle of Sitka.
     
  15. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    Haven't played yet, but the first thing I'd think of is does that sort of functionality exist? Would it be too intense for the CPU, slowing down turn times?

    If not, that sounds really interesting, quite unique, and a useful defense to coastal invasions. I'm not sure the withdrawl from melee would be too useful, as I've rarely seen the AI use amphibious attacks with embarked melee, and if attacked by melee from the land side, they'd withdraw into the sea and be easy pickings. Maybe both ranged defense and a bonus to ranged attacks?
     
  16. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    It’s all doable with existing sql, so it shouldn’t be as major a computing burden. Withdrawal never works if it pushes you into ocean. It would only withdraw if you have land behind you. The idea would be that the coastal defenders are much more resistant to naval bombardments. Beachheads require melee units to be landed to clear a Tlingit territory. It would also just be a fun spin on the terrain defense system that emulates a part of Tlingit colonial history.
     
  17. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    Is this finally starting to become a possibility? I've been wondering about it for a long time, but I always assumed Gazebo didn't want it because of balancing and ownership problems, if nothing else.

    EDIT: Gonna try a game with these guys, as economic civs tend to be my jam after warmongers. I don't immediately see anything terribly interesting about them, but I know you were looking for some feedback so I'll see what I see. Have yet to have a game with a custom civ make it much past the midgame, though; some bug or problem always stops them in their tracks,

    Also, the Tlingit's colors are basically indistinguishable from Germany.

    EDIT2: I forgot that "coast" is water tiles, not land tiles. My interest has increased substantially now that I understand what the civ is doing a lot better.
     
    Last edited: Oct 17, 2019
  18. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Germany's colours with a per turn version of Ottoman's UA with an earlier Feitoria and a unique musketman that fuses the Viking and Songhai UA abilities :D

    I do wish the off-white chosen for the civ was more yellow-brown than it is currently. It's meant to reflect the colours of a chilkat blanket, a highly prized luxury from that area.
    Once again, more reason to change the Noow. Right now it already has the Feitoria's build prerequisites, and it gives defense like the Feitoria. The yield per adjacent feature and a unique promotion to units standing on one would be totally unique to the Noow, however.
    The UA is meant to overwhelmingly reward internal TRs, unless you are falling far behind in culture/science. I wanted a civ that specifically rewards using the ITR mechanic, now that Japan's Sakoku has been dropped and the Ottomans' UA was nerfed so that they reward ETRs more than ITRs. The specifics of how it might work or scale are something that is definitely up for discussion. Maybe if there was some way to represent potlachs in the game through the UA?
     
  19. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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    Update: noow rework works as intended
    Dropped :c5strength:defense from 30% to 10%
    Tlingit units on/off a noow gain lose Survival March promotion.

    Survival March
    +70% defense vs ranged attacks
    100% chance to withdraw from melee combat

    attackers either waste ranged attacks on well-defended units, or are forced to waste movement points to dislodge Tlingit units. If pinned against the coast or impassable terrain, however, the Tlingit unit can not withdraw.
     
    Last edited: Oct 18, 2019
  20. ridjack

    ridjack King

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    So the Noow IS a land improvement. With that, I'm back to being less interested in them. I was thinking they had a neat synergy of a UI that could be built by their UU workboat. Without that, they're... bland.

    I think you're right in that the Noow needs to be something else entirely. Currently, it's incredibly restrictive for the small amount of benefit it seems like it would give, unless that movement bonus is a lot stronger than I'm currently imagining.

    I think more importantly, though, is that your tongue-in-cheek summary was a little too accurate... they don't have anything that feels unique to themselves, as it stands. There's nothing specifically wrong with them, per se, but I doubt I would ever intentionally pick them.

    Balance wise, they seem solid. It's still too early in my game to tell, but getting a start with a nice glut of coastal resources can jump start them immensely, since you only need to buy one Mallard-boat(Duk, get it?) to instantly improve all of them.

    (I was typing this as you posted the comment about the re-work. Less applicable now, but there it is.)
     

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