Colonies - pros and cons

[siggboy]

If you already created a vassal-AI by giving independence to some settlements on another continent, what happens if you create new settlements on the same continent and give them independence again? Are they merged with the previously created vassal-AI or will a new one be created?

The best way to go here might be to found the cities, then gift ("liberate") them individually to the already exisiting colony. This will give you a +1 diplo bonus ("you've liberated our cities") with your vassal which never hurts.

Again, I prefer to use capitulated vassals where possible (because they already have troops, buildings and culture, and because you don't risk them trading your monopoly techs to all and sundry).

Is this because a capitulated vassal won't have all of your techs automatically, or is there another way (besides embargos) of avoiding such a vassal trading away "your" techs?

 

[Winston Hughes]

Is this because a capitulated vassal won't have all of your techs automatically, or is there another way (besides embargos) of avoiding such a vassal trading away "your" techs?

Yeah, of the three kinds of vassals (voluntary, capitulated, colony) only colonies get all your techs when they report for duty.

If it's early in the game, they won't get much, so the harm is minimal. And if you're well behind in tech it doesn't matter at all. But if you have any kind of tech advantage, there's always a risk they'll trade it to your biggest rival. It doesn't happen every time, but it's frustrating as hell when it does.

To my mind, generally the only times it's worth creating a colony are early or late. Early if there are islands you wish to control, but don't want to settle yourself (usually because there's better land available - hence B&S and M&S are the most likely maps for this). Late if you've got (or will soon have) enough population to win a victory election, but need someone else to vote for you.

But, in these cases, the colonies are more about solidifying a strong start or finishing off a game that's already going your way, rather than overcoming a tough situation. After all, if you can afford to give cities away to a colony, you must be in a pretty damned good position already.

I'd guess there are some very specific circumstances where a colony could help you dig your way out of trouble (eg. if you've overexpanded onto a load of crappy islands and your economy is crashing). But I've never had that happen to me.

 

[Lord Chambers]

I'd guess there are some very specific circumstances where a colony could help you dig your way out of trouble (eg. if you've overexpanded onto a load of crappy islands and your economy is crashing). But I've never had that happen to me.

Precisely my view. I can't really forsee founding cities I later intend to give away. The only reason those cities would get founded was because I made an error in judgement.

Although this idea of creating a colony for the AI production bonuses to build cities in the area faster than you may otherwise be able to is pretty clever.

 

[TheMeInTeam]

I like founding them when I control the AP and have the religion almost entirely to myself. Spread it to other civs, colony, and quickly run the election before the colony leaves paganism. Instantly under the 75% votes threshold, but of course you'll be voted for still. Good for back door victories!

 

[Bleys]

Good thread, I have never used Colonies myself, mostly because I am a "REXing SP Junkie".

If I am not interested in a diplomatic win, is it worth it to create Colonies? Especially if I am close to SP? I really really like lots and lots of cities, all over the map, especially with a watery map since I push for the GLH and Colossus on those maps. But once the GLH and Colossus have expired, is it better to create a colony? Is it wise (or possible) to create multiple colonies?

My main concern with the process is the techs. I already feel I lose a lot of tech-ground with my poor Espionage skills (pretty obvious an AI has stolen a tech when they "suddenly" shift to a civic that tech made available, for example). I would hate to have an even BIGGER target for AI Spies than my own empire, sitting there like a duck on a pond. Is this a concern?

 

[TheMeInTeam]

Yes it is. Not only that though, it affects diplomacy with the starting AI's once they meet the civ, especially if they wind up hating your colony.

I don't make colonies very often, almost never actually.

If you only have 1 or 2 cities on a land mass, colonial expenses aren't that oppressive. If you have significantly more than that, the forbidden palace (which is available nice and early) will mitigate the problem almost entirely. Colonial expenses are capped at distance maintenance, which basically means if you get a ton of cities on a foreign landmass the FP will mitigate the problem almost entirely. It's unusual that one gets a bunch of cities on more than two landmasses before they're either a)in state property or b)so big and wealthy that they can probably pay for it. Of course, you could always just beat an AI down and make them a vassal, which I find more effective than a colony.

So no, I've not found any real use for a colony other than diplo cheese .

 

[alfon]

Once I built a colony near the American Civilization and it came out very helpful.

I saw that Washington was building all the spaceship parts so I used airports to send

spies to my conoly. I saw that Washington only had 4 more turns till victory and I

sabotaged the engine which gave me a cushion to eventuallt win Space Rance.

Always try to build colonies!

 

[DarkFyre99]

To illustrate the danger of colonies trading away a monopoly tech...

In my current game, a former enemy of mine (whose capital I'd seized via a chariot rush) created a colony. He was the only Civ currently with Construction, while I had diverted earlier to Horseback Riding due to a lack of strategic metals, and had started Calendar due to a wealth of such resources in my territory.

The very turn the colony was created, it turned around and offered me Construction, strait up, for Horseback Riding.

Needless to say I accepted.

 

[Krick19]

Er...Alfon, if you had kept the cities, you could have still done that.

 

[Yeosol]

I'm not sure if this would work, or be helpful but what about this idea. Often when I'm playing a good early rusher I can take out two civ's very quickly. If I keep these city's it's way too much maintenance. What if you kept the first civ's city's (the good one's anyway) And then kept all the second civ's city's till they were wiped out then instantly turned them into a colony. Or can you only make colony's over seas?

 

[Henrik]

Not sure if it's been mentioned but colonies will trade with your cities under mercantilism. Which is hugely usefull...