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Colonies: Yay or Nay!

Discussion in 'Civ4 - General Discussions' started by Army of Scouts, Jul 18, 2011.

  1. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    :deadhorse:
    Colonies could of been a great idea. There's just to many problems though. Like, I've noticed if I have too many colonies and I go to create another, every other colony breaks free and declares war on us. I think its a bug since they were all friendly (and still pleased after breaking free but at war) does this happen to anyone else? I haven't had a colony since before 3.19. Maybe it's been fixed?

    Plus you dont get their resources. You have to trade with them for it.

    The cool side is if you war with someone overseas instead of vassaling them just set up a colony and wipe out the enemy.

    Personally, I just adopt state property it removes colonial expenses as well as distance from palace cost.

    What is your take on this?
     
  2. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I've never had one break free.

    Usually, they're not worthwhile, though keep in mind that for intercontinental invasions they count as "land target" and will make your actual war enemy more likely to capitulate, and that liberating cities magic-generates 2 basic defenders which can be useful in a naval blitz.

    I've rarely found use for them though I hear they can be milked a bit on deity. I used one for trades once in an LHC game since those are typically isolation.
     
  3. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    I think it's a bug since they did not try to break free, the 6 of them declared war precisely when I created the 7th. No warning. I think you need alot of colonies to make the bug happen. I'll try to confirm when I get home. I don't know if it was fixed with the latest patch.
     
  4. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    I don't think it's still around in 3.19. IIRC this was tied to colonies recycling the position of killed-off AIs in terms of diplo standings or some such.
     
  5. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

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    I'm a control freak, so I never like colonies. That being said, I turn off vassal state specifically to deactivate colonial expenses.
     
  6. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    I've never liked colonies either. I do take vassals to speed up victories, but I think colonies are more dangerous. They start with all your techs which they may conduct a fire sale with. The Forbidden Palace will deal with a lot of the problems of another land mass.
     
  7. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

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    Which is why I never build it :)

    "Sure, this Forbidden Palace will save me thousands of gold if I do it early on... but if I wait until 20 turns before the game ends, I can use it to start a colony without any of the colony expenses!"

    :D
     
  8. ChanceDanger

    ChanceDanger Warlord

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    Another way that colonies *can* be useful is if domination looks out of reach (or you simply cop out and go for Space/Culture) but you've grabbed enough cities that you aren't able to pull in foreign trade routes (because of diplo or simply too many cities). You could turn some of your holdings into a vassal to grab the 150% trade multiplier for those routes, which *could* be useful. I've never done the math but I'm pretty sure that directed commerce (i.e. trade routes that go to cities with harbors/custom houses and commerce multipliers) would be beneficial. Especially if these cities are not contributing much hammers, since beakers/hammers should be primarily coming from the old country

    Dumping obsolete units to AI vassals takes advantage of their cheap upgrade abilities so that can be better than just deleting them. The aformentioned overseas vassaling is also pretty useful, not just for the free defensive units but also you can also use those cities for airdropping troops into once you get flight without having to pay all the maintenance for them
     
  9. TheMeInTeam

    TheMeInTeam Top Logic

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    There are a reasonable number of games where FP gold savings won't be worth the hammers until the issue of colonies is relevant. There are also some where you can reach a 2nd landmass via sailing that is sizeable, and you actually want FP faster than you can get it.
     
  10. LegionSteve

    LegionSteve Motörhead

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    As TMIT said, this was a bug caused by the new colony occupying the slot of a dead Civ, and picking up the dead Civ's war status. It was fixed in one of the patches before 3.19 so if you get 3.19 you will be ok.

    I can't use colonies because I have vassal states switched off, because I don't like the way vassal states mess up diplomacy. E.g. my former best friend is now cautious towards me because they hate my vassal. Worse, the interface tells me they are still friendly, which is ******** :crazyeye:
     
  11. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    Thanks for the help guys!:) Do to a series of unfortunate events I was unable to do that test. Thanks. I'm glad it was fixed. That was my biggest concern. Now my biggest problem towards colonies is tech trading my techs that they do. I hope turning on no tech brokering can fix this because I'm usually far more advance buy the midieval era. (technichly they didn't research the techs so they shouldn't be able to trade them...amirite or amirite?:)
     
  12. Skallagrimson

    Skallagrimson Deity

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    I normally would build colonies but I tend not to in the maps I play (fractal or earth). I like the concept, just don't get around to actually using the feature.
     
  13. nfw

    nfw King

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    Only time colonies are useful is when you are going for AP diplomatic victory and the supreme leader vote is disabled because you are over the threshold by yourself alone.

    Now, if you can control which cities actually form the colony rather than everyone on the different continent, and the ability to donate later cities to colonies as well, those might make them more convenient.
     
  14. bestrfcplayer

    bestrfcplayer Steppin' up!

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    Colonies are expensive. So, no.
     
  15. Army of Scouts

    Army of Scouts Noble Cheater

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    Actually, having alot of cities on another continent and not having colonies can be expensive... its the other facts that make me not want colonies:)
     
  16. ksa76

    ksa76 Chieftain

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    I love colonies mainly because they raise the trade route and happiness cap (+1 trading route per colony, +1 extra happiness per colony).

    A colonial based trade route economy is very effective combined with the Expansive and Organized trait (cheap settlers and reduced maintenance costs) and the Temple of Artemis Wonder (extra trade routes).

    The added colonial maintenance costs can largely be offset by deficit research trading, spread of missionaries and corps. Also, with the extra happiness from each colony, one can whip extensively and delay/ignore happiness buildings (temples, theaters, coliseums, etc).

    Colonies are also a means to an earlier Domination Victory. On the Earth map, I get a bunch of colonies in the South East Pacific and a big one in the New World. Even Ireland, New Zealand, and Madagaskar are colonized.
     
  17. Sir Penguinboy

    Sir Penguinboy Chieftain

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    I've never really used them before, simply because i hate having vassals and never being able to drop them if i want to. And I always use state property which gets rid of the economic problems and makes it easier for me to conquer while mantaining my economy.
     
  18. Ataxerxes

    Ataxerxes Deity

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    +1 happiness is nice but by that state of the game I'm usually not whipping. Besides, when Emancipation comes in Slavery starts really making the happiness hurt on a large map. And since nearly every tile is improved by this point you'll be whipping away improved tiles or specialists.

    I don't understand how colonies give you a faster domination victory. You only get 50% of the land and population, where it's 100% if it's yours. Admittedly I like State Property. I also don't understand why extra happiness from colonies would cause you to whip more.
     
  19. Antilogic

    Antilogic --

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    I thought I was following the discussion, but for the last couple of posts I'm not sure:

    Are we discussing placing cities under your civilization's banner on distant islands or continents? Or are we discussing releasing those cities as a vassal civ?
     
  20. Defiant47

    Defiant47 Peace Sentinel

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    Or are we discussing having the colonies option (vassal states) available at all?
     

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