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Colonization Overhaul Planned

Discussion in 'Civ4Col - Creation & Customization' started by Dom Pedro II, Sep 29, 2008.

  1. Ambreville

    Ambreville Deity

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    Did I give you the impression I didn't agree with the above?

    "Brazilians need not apply" -- wow! I had no idea. At any rate, I didn't think this would be the basis for not including Portugal in a historically inspired New World setting. IIRC, the basic Civ4Col map includes both North and South America. Although the Dutch had a small presence in both North and South America while the Portuguese manifested themselves in a big way down in South America only, I thought the Portuguese were more relevant as a "colonizing" power than the Dutch, certainly as far as controlled landmass and population were concerned. Either way, it's arguable. ;)
     
  2. Ambreville

    Ambreville Deity

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    Early on, btw, the territory of French Louisiane + Quebec/Nouvelle France was comparable to the size of Brazil, or pretty darn close.
     
  3. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Well, it gets a little hazy because while the French controlled vast territories on paper, the reality was that they only settled very small portions of that territory. But the same was true of the Portuguese in Brazil. I think modern Brazil is slightly larger than the combined French territories. Hence why I only used the word "vastly" larger in comparison to the Dutch territories ;)


    And no, you didn't give any impression that you disagreed, but my point was that it really doesn't matter how much territory the Portuguese controlled outside of the Americas. They could've controlled all of Africa and Asia, but without any colonies in the New World, I would not think they had a place in the game. But since they did and since Brazil is so large, it does justify their being in the game.

    The reason why the Dutch are included? One word: Manhattan.
     
  4. Ambreville

    Ambreville Deity

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    I'm sure "Yankees" are quite happy to learn the term might come from "Jan-Kees" (or Jan-Kaas, John-Cheese), hence the Dutch connection.
     
  5. Ambreville

    Ambreville Deity

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  6. Ekmek

    Ekmek on steam: ekmek_e

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    Your just going to use the planations from civ4 right? no need for new graphics I think. Are you going to have it that only Expert cotton planters etc are able to build the plantations. It would be restricting but I think better than having pioneers do it ll.

    adding some of the financial aspects like banking and insurance that made colonization possible would be cool. but how will it interact between players? use it to minimize events or taxes?


    another idea
    i was thinking of having some colonization code go to civ4 and ran into the issue of where does the money come from. My idea, and maybe you can use this for your mod, is have silver (and add gold and copper) instead of being sold be able to be converted to cash (coinage) like lumber comverts to hammers. of course make it more profitable to send it to europe like the spanish historically did, but it would be cool to generate some cash in the colonies through a metalsmith.
     
  7. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    :)

    Well, the Dutch played more of a role in US history than the Portuguese ever did. I lived in Bergen county New Jersey for most of my life with countless streets named after Dutch people I've never heard of in history. Two of America's Presidents, Teddy and Franklin Roosevelt, came from a Dutch family that first settled in New Amsterdam in the 1600s. Then there's more peripheral things such as the Puritans having settled in the Netherlands for a period of time and Britain's long-standing ties with the Netherlands.

    And ultimately, even though it isn't presented as such, this is a game that's about American history and America's Revolutionary War. Everything in the game is based on the American colonial experience. I don't have a problem with this, but it seems to me like they kind of draped a little bit of flavor from the history of Latin America in there and marketed it as a general Age of Discovery game when it really isn't.
     
  8. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Hey, if you want to do some graphics for these specific crop types... ;)

    And the problem with the expert planters is that they're rather late arrivals to the game. I want to remove all of the crops from the game map. So the only sources of these crops will be from tiles with plantations on them, so the plantations have to be buildable very early.

    Well, the loan system is fairly simple (as I've designed it). You can take money and pay the money back (money will be automatically paid back from your European sales too). Your debt will affect two things: your score, and your relations with other players. If you have huge debts, other players will be less likely to help you. There has to be some kind of a penalty for racking up huge debts so that it's not abused by players.

    Yes, you're right. I've been thinking about this too. Silver & gold should be converted directly to gold (money).
     
  9. Ambreville

    Ambreville Deity

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    Yeah, that's specifically where I was going with this. Civ4Col is definitely wrapped around Washington's belly button as a general concept. It definitely begs for an Age of Discovery development -- which connects with the object of this thread. Soooo.... I'll now leave all this in your capable hands. :lol:
     
  10. comtedemeighan

    comtedemeighan Chieftain

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    Dom Pedro I really like the Loan idea its pretty cool. Colonial Debt was part of the reason for the stamp act crisis. Maybe the debt could be used as leverage against the crown forces like if you pay the debt off the REF forces will shrink but if you don't pay the debt the crown will increase its forces to eventually make those stubborn colonists pay up when they do revolt. Also can you make Sugar Planters availible in Europe because Sugar is a European plant :)
     
  11. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    There's a number of things that can be done with the debt. However, since you're borrowing the money from a European "bank" rather than the crown, it wouldn't make much sense if th crown comes to collect the debt. But REF could still be affected by the level of your outstanding debt a the time of the revolution.

    And yes, the Sugar Planter thing is a bit silly. In fact, among the crop resources in the game, only Tobacco is actually indigenous to the Americas. It's also a bit silly that you can train Expert Ore Miners in native villages considering that very few Pre-Columbian civilizations knew anything about metalworking (and even then only soft metals like gold), and I doubt they had anything to teach the Europeans about mining.
     
  12. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Just... for an update:

    I've gotten the loan system up and running. I haven't coded all of the details about the debt and how it affects score, player relations, etc. But there is now a new button on the top left hand corner of the screen for loans. When you push it, a popup appears telling you the maximum amount the bank will lend right now and your interest rate increase.

    If you have outstanding debt, there will be a third button that will allow you to pay back some of the loan. If you push that, a new popup will appear that will let you input the amount you want to pay back.

    I haven't decided where exactly I want to put the debt. I figure it should probably be on the main interface... maybe next to the amount of gold you have.

    I was going to post some screenshots, but it was late and I was tired. I'll have something up later tonight when I get home from work.
     
  13. Melinko

    Melinko Reverend

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    Good to hear about the progress, one suggestion for most of where to put all this is maybe a Financial Advisor screen of some sort. This might be a little more then you want to put in there, but it might be an easy way to show the values of the gold exchange and negitives (or positives) to income. :goodjob:

    And we want screenshots... :whipped: (LOL :joke:)
     
  14. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Ask and ye shall receive ;)





    I increased the size of some parts of the image so that people can see it more clearly since I shrunk down the image to fit well on the forum. The number next to the gold is your debt amount. There's supposed to be a smaller red gold stack next to the regular gold stack, but for some reason, it's not appearing... I'm going to work on fixing that. I've figured out what I did wrong and have corrected it.




    I've added the ability to sell your ships in Europe. The price is based on a base price plus the costs of yields required to produce the ship.




    I've also added a new unit called a Coastal Trader. It's essentially a floating Wagon Train. It has the same storage capacity, can only carry goods, and can't make the trip to Europe. But it only requires a Dock and is very cheap to build.
     

    Attached Files:

  15. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    Ok, I've posted more screenshots in the above post. I'll feel comfortable enough with these changes to release an initial version soon.

    Of course, most of the really big stuff like the Africa screen and the new plantation system are still on the drawing board. But this is a start.
     
  16. Jeckel

    Jeckel Great Reverend

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    Very awesome DPII!! :goodjob:

    I like the new Button on the Main Interface, that rocks. Selling ships is also a very good idea and I think will add more fun to the game. :band:
     
  17. comtedemeighan

    comtedemeighan Chieftain

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    How bout if you borrow the money and you decide not to pay it back and the crown drops your taxes a bit because of pressure in parliament from the bankers and merchants who want you to pay back some of that money thus lowering your tax rate but angering the king.
     
  18. Dom Pedro II

    Dom Pedro II Modder For Life

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    I'm just glad I actually did something with python and the universe didn't end :p It's not exactly my strong spot.

    As for selling ships, I think it will be very useful. If you start the game with a Caravel, you can essentially trade it in (with some extra gold of course) for some other ship like a Merchantman. But it also opens the possibility for the player to set up a ship-building business like New England did in the later game. Rather than trade in cash crops, you could focus on building and selling ships.

    Well, I'm not inclined to give rewards for not paying back a loan.

    To all: Okay, so I'm planning to release my mod either tonight or Sunday. Then I'll let you guys find all my bugs while I work on the next game components :)

    I'm going to make a couple small changes to these things now. First, I'm considering that Coastal Traders also need to be unable to enter undiscovered territory so that people don't exploit them as cheap exploration vessels. Btw, there's now a new XML tag that I used for this unit that prevents a unit from being able to sail to Europe.

    I also need to solidify the max loan amount and interest rate formula because right now you'll just get the max amounts that modders can change in the XML.

    My next battle is with the plantations. I'm not particularly familiar with the art stuff, so that's going to be the big problem because I'm not adding any new functionality (I already added it to the SDK :) ).
     
  19. henryMCVII

    henryMCVII Warlord

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    Nice to see the mod is moving on. :)

    I have one question before I start playing with this mod: What happens to goods or units on the ship when you are selling the ship?
     
  20. Zuul

    Zuul Mod lister!

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    Will you inlcude Dale mods?
     

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