Colossus vs. The Great Lighthouse

[iamnleth]

If you're playing on a sea-based map (archipelago, most likely) and you figure that one of these two may be in your best interest to construct, how do you choose between the two? I play on monarch, and I find that I can't usually beat the AI to BOTH of them (although, to be honest, I've only tried once).

Colossus:

• Better for financial leaders.
• More commerce early.

The Great Lighthouse:

• Better if you're isolated (for overseas trade)
• More commerce late.
• Allows other tiles to be worked.

Those are the advantages and disadvantages, to my knowledge.To be specific, I'm playing as Hannibal (financial, but has a UB that gives 1 extra trade route) and I'm trying to decide which would be better for him on an archipelago map.

 

[DaveMcW]

Great Lighthouse gets better as number of rivals increases. On smaller maps you can't find enough rival cities to use every trade route.

GL is also better on higher difficulty levels, as the rival cities are larger and more likely to have harbors.

 

[Lord Chambers]

Interesting timing for this thread. I just played a game where I started in isolation, and I used the oracle to grab the Colossus, and am generally unhappy because I think the Great Lighthouse would have been a better choice. The main reason is that the Colossus goes obsolete at Astronomy, while the Great Lighthouse does not until Corporation. In isolation, your whole strategy revolves around either cultural victory or getting Astronomy ASAP. The Colossus speeds you up during your isolation, but only a single commerce per sea tile, which amounts to maybe 3-4 per city before modifiers. Not quite worth the effort, while the Great Lighthouse can achieve a similar boost, and that boost becomes GREATER after contact and Astronomy instead of disappearing. It's also cheaper to build, and the Colossus essentially requires the Orcacle at higher levels (or a huge investment of turns which decreases its value even further, while keeping your civ farther away from Iron Working for Jungle Clearing, Calendar for happiness, and Civil Service for Bureaucracy), and that prevents you from using a double scientist bulbing for early Astonomy (see the Ragnard ACL, page 20-27 somewhere for details).

 

[popejubal]

Colossus has another disadvantage: Every water tile you are working is not a worked land tile. That means all of your lovely 3 commerce ocean tiles turn back into 1 commerce ocean tiles when you hit Astronomy while any cottages you have not been working are still cottages. It is a dilemma.

Colossus has its uses. I just think that it is usually better to work land tiles if possible. Great Lighthouse has the advantage that all of its added commerce is automatic and not dependant on actually working coastal and ocean tiles.

 

[Guardian_PL]

'Tis quite simple really.
If I can nab Metal Casting relatively fast (bulb, oracle, beelining) and have copper, then I see no reason (well, sometimes Monty or other Alex have different opinion on neighbourhood relations ) to spend like 10 turns in one city to build it.
This is getting better if one plays with Financial - 2 and 4 is nice, not to mention any seafood tile. This is great to settle mediocre-weak areas (like tundra fur city etc), cause all this commerce is then multiplied and boosts science despite maintenance.

Lighthouse imo is better, especially on archipelago (intecontinental boost to trade). Not only it's not obsolete with Astro, it gets supercharged with it.
BUT
-it's expensive
-AI build it early
-no production bonuses except being Industrious (so chop, chop, chop)
-one has to get Sailing and Masonry, which is not always the desired tech path

So, as usual, it all depends

 

[tycoonist]

well, if you have copper i guess your decision is partially made for you. having copper makes colossus only 125 hammers, which is at a lowish production still only 10-15 turns without industrious. an industrious leader with good production could get it done in five.

personally, i would take the GL. if your isolated early astronomy is quite normal but corporation comes later.

 

[iamnleth]

Although the GL is only more powerful after astronomy, you have to go out of your way (tech wise) to reach it. The colossus is right down the optics beeline. But, as you say, the colossus (if you're isolated), will go obsolete so early that it's not even worth it. I'd say a good guideline is to construct tGL if you're isolated and the Colossus if you're in contact with at least two AIs (there isn't much you can do with just one AI other than invade if he won't trade with you). Even then, I'd say that I prefer tGL.

 

[absimiliard]

The Colossus is relatively stronger than the Great Lighthouse for an isolated civ due to the lower value of intra-civ trade routes.

-abs

 

[Halt]

GL is stronger (if you have costal towns) because it is passive. You get the extra trade routes and are not required to use 2F tiles instead of a more productive tile early in the game.

For example a 2F 1P tile is much better early in the game than a 2F 3C tile.

If you have two extra trade routes that give you 2C or 3C each that is equal to using two "water" tiles while still retaining the production.

OBVIOUSLY.. every situation is different... But "passive empire wide" effects tend to be more beneficial than active effects which require you to micro manage.

 

[futurehermit]

The fact that you can't speed it up with stone/marble and the fact that you have to research masonry and sailing combine to make the GL one of my least-built wonders.

If circumstances permit I will build the colossus, but generally don't plan my strategy around it.

 

[Calouste]

If you are playing archipelago, sailing is pretty much a required tech, so that only leaves masonry as a "redundant" tech if you want to get the GL.

The GL allows fairly massive REXing, specially on tiny islands maps. With currency, every new founded city will have 1 from the city + 2/3 from the sea tile + 4 * 2 from overseas trade routes = 11/12 . That pays for a lot of extra city maintenance.

 

[Artichoker]

For me, the deciding factor would be the Copper. With such a huge discount for production, the cost/benefit makes the Colossus the better deal.

 

[hiddie]

It depends on the map, if you don't have a water map (for example archipelago), where you would probably rush for astronomy and if you have copper, The Colossus is waaaaaaaaaaaaaaay better in that case.

 

[troytheface]

collossus by a mile but only because the graphic is more interesting.

 

[Scaramanga]

I'd say it all depends if you can get the oracle -> metal-casting slingshot and have copper for the Colossus (Industrious is a big help). If you're organized and/or industrious the great lighthouse is a better good pick (Roosevelt's a shoe-in for it).

 

[Snapman]

The problem on water based maps, is that The Colossus will be useful, but Astronomy is normally a priority, thus shortening it's lifespan considerably. As far as I'm concerned, it just doesn't stick around long enough to be worth the effort. Only if you've got loads of seafood resources to work does it have much use, and even then, the benefit isn't that great to have a massive impact on your economy.

The Great Lighthouse is one of my favourite wonders, for reasons which have already been stated. Mainly due to the fact that it works well with the discovery of Astonomy and isn't obsolete until Corporation. It also helps with the maintainance costs of building coastal towns, and when combined with Harbors and Customs Houses, it provides a great boost to your Civs economy.

 

[duende29]

The Great Lighthouse is better, isolation or not. Colossus obsoletes at Astronomy, which is usually beelined/liberalism'd/bulbed while TGL holds for a bit more, plus, you don't work water tiles unless you REALLY NEED TO. For example, when I built it on the Toku LHC (had copper and bad land), after getting Astro I only lost +/- 1g and almost no beakers.

Colossus kinda blows. Unless you use it for GM GPP.

 

[Lanstro]

for non-financial i'd take the GL any day
for financial it's a closer call: depends a lot on what the map looks like

 

[Gliese 581]

I rank the wonders: 1) pyramids 2) library 3) lighthouse in potential power, the rest I'm less concerned with. This of course, is heavilly influenced by my play style and the settings I use.. Anyhow, colossus is pretty far down the list.

 

[vicawoo]

One important factor is whether your capital is coastal or not. The great lighthouse is good with big cities but gives very little for smaller cities. If you're working mostly ocean tiles, it's unlikely your 2 extra trade routes will amount to +n commerce for an n size city, in many cases you'll be getting +1 per route before corporation.

I mention this because the best conditions for the great lighthouse are when it is obsolete.