Combat AI - The worker "bait"

Discussion in 'Civ5 - General Discussions' started by V. Soma, Jun 26, 2012.

  1. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    As far as AI is improved, sadly it seems that worker bait is still "working"...

    So I can make the AI go and catch my worker instead of finishing off my wounded cat
    when I am just about to do one more big hit on its city with the cat...

    I go and place the worker 2-3 tiles away from the cat, but visible to the AI,
    and that distracts it from the units that attack AI city...

    Does anybody else have the same experience?
     
  2. Vatras

    Vatras Warlord

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    Have to try it. The only time it happened by chance, the AI ignored the worker. Since i was trying to get him to safety and not watching closely, he might not have been in sight of the AI.
     
  3. smallfish

    smallfish Immortal

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    Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't.
     
  4. Montov

    Montov King

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    I've had a worker at the frontline building a road in enemy lands on a tile adjecent to the city. There was no garrison, so there was no danger.
     
  5. Enkidu Warrior

    Enkidu Warrior Ultramagnetic

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    I tried throwing a worker out as bait during a siege of the Austrian capital, but they didn't go for it and handled the siege in general as well as could be expected. They sallied out when it was appropriate to do so but fell back in good order before I could finish them off.

    I've also found that my workers were largely left alone when the AI was laying siege to my cities, though in this case it played largely to my advantage.

    I've no doubt that the AI can be fooled on occasion by questionable ploys, but in general I've found the AI to be quite adept at siege warfare.
     
  6. alpaca

    alpaca King of Ungulates

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    I've used it very successfully to distract barbs from my improvements but against the normal AI it seems to depend on circumstances. Not sure when exactly they go for it
     
  7. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Just like in vanilla. Scout bait is still working almost 100% though. :)
     
  8. V. Soma

    V. Soma long time civ fan

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    Worker or scout "bait" - i think it is kind of exploitative and Firaxis devs should take care of it.

    I hope that AI is ordered along on the operational level sg like this:

    What is the aim?

    - to defend along borders
    - to defend important resource
    - to defend a given city
    - to defend captal

    if it is to defend a city, then it should aim for enemy units that threatens city:
    artillery units, best melee units... never, never get distracted by a worker or a scout...
     
  9. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Well, scout or any other weak (cheap) unit for that matter is not a civilian unit, so it gets targeted and takes damage. I don't see this being changed. Targeting the strongest units also has its cons. It won't likely get killed ever, and/or you can keep two strong guys to be used as meatshield and switch between them, while range/siege units bombard the city. When one guy gets severely wounded, you move him out of city radius to heal, and move the second guy in. These tricks were needed on higher levels in vanilla, are needed in G&K and will be needed in the future. Most of the time you can't just break through with brute force, you have to 'outsmart' the AI.
    Bottom line, no matter what the devs do, AI will never be competitive at combat. That's something we need to accept.
     
  10. Sporaticus

    Sporaticus Drooling Barbarian

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    I have had it work enough so that I always try when I have the opportunity.

    What amazes me is the AIs habit of detaching their GG from troop protection. I'll ALWAYS take that bait!
     
  11. dexters

    dexters Gods & Emperors Supporter

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    GG AI is hit and miss. Although I commented in my thread (Late Night Thread of Ideas) about GG being gung-ho and in the frontlines, I also saw them deployed differently by a different Civ where the AI moves the GG each turn to make sure it is well covered and in the rear - which was a first insofar as active protection of the GG. In the past a GG may start out well covered and become exposed with the AI not doing anything about it. In this case, I saw the AI shifting their GG every turn.

    The first case is Rome. The second is Polynesia. I wonder if leader traits have anything to do with battle tactics.
     
  12. Scarpa

    Scarpa Prince

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    What if the scout or worker is spotting for artillery? I'm sure plenty of human players have done this, I certainly have. It's not always so cut and dry. I think the AI does well enough, it will never be as adaptable or intelligent as a human. (I hope!)
     
  13. Buccaneer

    Buccaneer Deity

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    Sometimes it does, sometimes it doesn't. In one city, it went after my scout I put in the way but in another city, it purposely targetted my ranged units. Yet in another city, much to my chagrin, it went right after my ships and did devastating damage.
     
  14. BrokTheFanatic

    BrokTheFanatic Warlord

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    I see it as glitchy and annoying but not that big of a deal. Happens accidentally rather rarely since I choose to avoid trying to exploit the AI. I am more concerned about how the AI plays when you do a standard assault or defense. Once that works reasonably, they can go back and fix quirkiness.

    I don't get why, on solo play, anyone ever exploits or outright cheats. What is the point? Oh boy, I won using the editor or random seed re-rolling or taking advantage of a bad line of AI code.... heh
     
  15. The Pilgrim

    The Pilgrim Deity

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    Seems like once he get detached, he can't find his way back. Same as liberated workers. Pathfinding algorithm is not exactly brilliant, as we all know.
     
  16. Sporaticus

    Sporaticus Drooling Barbarian

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    Yes, I learned the hard way to use the "M" key when attacking cities on the coast, else my <snip>-for-brains units will jump right in the water and get killed. <Snipping> little drunken <snipped> inbred <snippers>! I also love the way scouts are drawn to barbarian camps like suicidal moths to a candle bonfire.
     
  17. Koolaidking

    Koolaidking Chieftain

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    I have a habit of doing something like this "worker bait", but i would call my offensive worker strategy something more like a "worker shield." When i seem to have more range units than melee, or when i think a weak range unit or a damage melee unit is about to be attacked, i separate the two associated units with a worker. Instead of the AI using his swordsmen to attack me, he will instead take my worker and end his turn, leaving my to kill the swordsmen and take the worker back. It doesnt always work perfectly; sometimes the AI gets away with my worker before i get him back, but having these worker shields at the front lines to temp your AI opponent on taking them instead of attacking your units can seriously help.

    I have only played two G&K games and i am mainly talking about my experience in vanilla but the AI has fallen for this AT LEAST TWICE in my last game. Literally, my wounded melee units (with THREE! health) got to escape because Attila wanted a worker instead.
     

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