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Combat and Stacking overhaul

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by wolverine2112, Aug 30, 2016.

  1. wolverine2112

    wolverine2112 Warlord

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    Did anyone use to use this mod like i did? I really miss it. It makes combat sooo much better, but I can't use it anymore because it requires a DLL to make it work..thus making it in compatible with this mod. Is anyone interested in adding it to the community patch somehow ;). I have no idea what it would take...
     
  2. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    It would take a lot. Also their code is not shared. Anyways, Civ 5 lives and dies by 1UPT combat, and the CBO stands by that.

    G
     
  3. tu_79

    tu_79 Deity

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    Precisely 1 Unit Per Tile is one of my most loved features.
     
  4. wolverine2112

    wolverine2112 Warlord

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    Well i just mean make it an option...but if its not possible then oh well.
     
  5. Strigvir

    Strigvir Emperor

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    It's not "just make an option". The whole AI has to be rewritten to accommodate it.
     
  6. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    That's not feasible. Complete and total overhaul != optional feature.

    G
     
  7. heinous_hat

    heinous_hat Prince

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    I played a lot of the RED dll and have fond memories :)

    The combat stacking component was an interesting beast... it worked despite not much development in the way of "smarter AI" and completely lacked deliberate grouped movement. AI units would simply benefit from the lack of tile restrictions by coincidentally stacking, which provided advantages as per the rules (counter fire, preparation fire, etc). Reduction of ranged combat distance helped make that work. Clever, for sure. I always thought of it as having made the best of an otherwise terrible situation.

    Thanks to some (very) heavy lifting, VP doesn't suffer from nonsensical AI combat behavior and continues to approach the level of quality that was no doubt intended. At this point, I would say that the game would benefit most from larger maps, rather than stacking allowance and related rules. Although, I would very much like to have seen how far Gedemon could have taken it, had he continued.

    One aspect of the mod I'd suggest considering for VP is neutral unit stacking. With AI units being much more active and far afield, they frequently honk up important tactical space... even more so than vanilla. Fewer units rendered also can't be a bad thing.
     
  8. Iamblichos

    Iamblichos Prince

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    What feature of the Combat and Stack Overhaul Mod?

    I have incorporated some aspects of it into the DLL that modders could take advantage of.
     
  9. heinous_hat

    heinous_hat Prince

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    What I was suggesting was to allow some limited stacking for military units which are not at war. It would eliminate a number of inconveniences (which add nothing, tactically) such as...

    - movement being blocked because you can't see beyond an occupied tile
    - neutral units blocking tiles in the midst of a battle
    - general pathing difficulties when trying to get from A to B when the map is heavily populated

    Of course, there would be some special handling required for certain scenarios... war breaking out between stacked units, how to relocate etc. With the RED dll game rules, there are naturally fewer of these since stacking is the general case and not an exception, as it would be with VP.

    Just a thought, but maybe it invites more trouble than it's worth.
     
  10. Gazebo

    Gazebo Lord of the Community Patch Supporter

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    The UI does not play well with neutral combat unit stacking - it is inelegant. Civilian stacking is okay because it isn't terribly tactical.

    I think the current CP handling of units is perfectly fine as-is.

    G
     
  11. heinous_hat

    heinous_hat Prince

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    I think it's good too :). Actually, I use scouts more often as traditional "spotters" since you allowed narrow ocean crossings. That does have tactical interest, and using them more widely does address most of the things I listed as inconveniences. The "neutral observers" parking problem would be the only one where stacking is an ideal solution.

    CSO had a separate component for stacked icon handling. It worked really well, in the context of that mod. But I could definitely see where you'd be introducing inconsistencies if you tried something similar for just neutral units.
     
  12. Iamblichos

    Iamblichos Prince

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    UPDATE Units
    SET NumberStackingUnits = 1
    WHERE Type = 'UNIT_SCOUT';

    You can easily do this with CP DLL. I did the code for it. And if you use EUI it has a custom UnitFlagManager.lua, or if you hate EUI, gut everything in EUI but the core library files and the UnitFlagmanager.lua file
     

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