BenchBreaker
Warlord
- Joined
- Oct 17, 2005
- Messages
- 195
Early game the relative upgrades are massive
warrior vs spearman(6->10, 67%)
spearman vs swordman(10->15, 50%)
horseman vs knight / pikeman vs tercio (15->25, 60%)
last night I had to face turn 20 cataphracts with 30% combat promotion, it's 26 strength is more than 4 times that of my warrior 6 so its like GDR against long swordsman, that's way too big a gap early game. from experience generally horseman are pretty much invincible against archers taking less than 10 damage per shot whilst bowman can do decent 30ish, the jump is huge.
however late game upgrades are very small
landship vs tank(55->65, 18%)
rifleman vs infantry(45->55, 22%)
infantry vs mech infantry (55->70, 27%)
special forces vs xcom (65->80。 23%)
the rocket artillery 80rcs/50cs can petty much demolish them all from huge distance whilst not too afraid of being melee'd
percentages matter because promotions, terrain and GG buffs are based on percentages, if the upgrade is so small then a veteran unit with terrain and GG and authority bonuses can easily outclass and kill units 2 eras more advanced. which is what happened when my morden armor and mech inf got killed left and right in 2 or 3 hits my rifleman and Gatling guns
It's good to make the numbers look pretty but they still have to be more or less proportionally balanced. the 25->35->45->55->65 stuff gets weaker and weaker upgrades.
I think a good balance is each upgrade tier is 40% stronger than the previous one, so a unit with couple promotion and moral/authority/GG can pretty match the next tier unit. also notice two 40% compounded is 96% so pretty much doubles cs every two tiers This means currently the early upgrades are too much and the later ones too little.
here is a list of 40% upgrades rounded to the nearest integer
pikeman should get 17 halfway between swords and long swords since they are 3 tech columns from spearman
we can make the numbers pretty but i would not recommend for the earlier ones since one or two points is significant percentage wise, so
unique units should have 20% more CS so they are half way to the next tier
notice currently some unique have like 37 vs 35 against the units they replace which is 6% increase whilst many early unique are 12 vs 10 which is 20% increase. we cant just add 2 cs and say they have the same effect.
so with that we would have following strength for unique
for archery units their combat strength should be 1 tier lower than same era melee, so
this might seem low but ranged units already dominate as it is, currently even if they get cached offguard by same era melee they wont even lose half hp in most cases. and for mounted archery their cs should match that of the current era melee, so
currently their cs is too high that same era melee attacking them (which is difficult enough to do often results in minor defeats)
unique unites can also get 20% buff camel archer can have 17 cs
Overall, given that promotions, terrain, buffs, policies are all percentage it makes sense to keep the CS era to era proportionally balanced rather than simply add 5 or add 10
EDIT:
another thing is that same era ranged ships are almost one shorting each other like crazy since they are using their rcs when attacking but melee cs when defending from ranged attacks. so Dromon firing on another Dromon is 15 vs 5, gallaes on on another is 25 vs 10. which means with a couple of anti ship promotions you'll one shot everything same era and below. basically once you get range promotion on your ships you can easily snipe all of AI's ranged ships without them responding
warrior vs spearman(6->10, 67%)
spearman vs swordman(10->15, 50%)
horseman vs knight / pikeman vs tercio (15->25, 60%)
last night I had to face turn 20 cataphracts with 30% combat promotion, it's 26 strength is more than 4 times that of my warrior 6 so its like GDR against long swordsman, that's way too big a gap early game. from experience generally horseman are pretty much invincible against archers taking less than 10 damage per shot whilst bowman can do decent 30ish, the jump is huge.
however late game upgrades are very small
landship vs tank(55->65, 18%)
rifleman vs infantry(45->55, 22%)
infantry vs mech infantry (55->70, 27%)
special forces vs xcom (65->80。 23%)
the rocket artillery 80rcs/50cs can petty much demolish them all from huge distance whilst not too afraid of being melee'd
percentages matter because promotions, terrain and GG buffs are based on percentages, if the upgrade is so small then a veteran unit with terrain and GG and authority bonuses can easily outclass and kill units 2 eras more advanced. which is what happened when my morden armor and mech inf got killed left and right in 2 or 3 hits my rifleman and Gatling guns
It's good to make the numbers look pretty but they still have to be more or less proportionally balanced. the 25->35->45->55->65 stuff gets weaker and weaker upgrades.
I think a good balance is each upgrade tier is 40% stronger than the previous one, so a unit with couple promotion and moral/authority/GG can pretty match the next tier unit. also notice two 40% compounded is 96% so pretty much doubles cs every two tiers This means currently the early upgrades are too much and the later ones too little.
here is a list of 40% upgrades rounded to the nearest integer
Code:
5 scout
7 warrior
10 spearman
14 swordsman
20 longswordsman
28 tercio
39 fusilier
55 rifleman
77 infantry
108 mech infantry
151 GDRwe can make the numbers pretty but i would not recommend for the earlier ones since one or two points is significant percentage wise, so
Code:
5
7
10
14(15)
20
28(30)
40
55
75
100
150notice currently some unique have like 37 vs 35 against the units they replace which is 6% increase whilst many early unique are 12 vs 10 which is 20% increase. we cant just add 2 cs and say they have the same effect.
so with that we would have following strength for unique
Code:
9 jaguar
12 immortal
17 legion
24 samurai
33 musketeer
48 winged hussar
65 pricinha etc
Code:
5 archer
7 composite bow
10 crossbow
14 musket
20 gatling
28 machinegun
40 bazooka
Code:
7 chariot
10 skirmisher
14 heavy sk
20 criussier
28 cavalry
40 armored car etcunique unites can also get 20% buff camel archer can have 17 cs
Overall, given that promotions, terrain, buffs, policies are all percentage it makes sense to keep the CS era to era proportionally balanced rather than simply add 5 or add 10
EDIT:
another thing is that same era ranged ships are almost one shorting each other like crazy since they are using their rcs when attacking but melee cs when defending from ranged attacks. so Dromon firing on another Dromon is 15 vs 5, gallaes on on another is 25 vs 10. which means with a couple of anti ship promotions you'll one shot everything same era and below. basically once you get range promotion on your ships you can easily snipe all of AI's ranged ships without them responding
