Command and Conquer Planning Thread

PPQ_Purple

Purple Cube
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Command & Conquer
A PPQ_Purple Mod​

BACKGROUND:
For those not familiar, it is my intent to try and create a Command and Conquer themed mod. This topic was originally discussed in my related art thread but has since outgrown it and necessitates its own space. The purpose of this thread is to contain the discussion on its potential features, details and structure as well as serve as a general discussion place for the mod until such a time that I can produce a playable minimum viable product. Please note that while this thread is a definite statement of intent my workload and other real world issues might cause the mod might be delayed, paused or abandoned altogether before that point. I shall try and avoid this of course, but can give no guarantees.

The top posts in this thread are reserved for the current state of the process and I shall endeavor to keep them up to date with any intended changes.

PROJECT SCOPE AND STATEMENT OF INTENT:
The primary intent of this project is to create a mod that covers the timeline and scope of the original Westwood Command and Conquer games. This means that I will be drawing content and lore primarily from Command and Conquer, Red Alert 1, Red Alert 2 and Renegade and Tiberium Sun in that order of chronology. I reserve the right to draw bits and pieces from other games in the franchise, especially Red Alert 3 when that is convenient but the official timeline of this mod does not include those.

Furthermore, as we all know that the Ancient and Classical eras are mostly dead spots in CIV games that serve to set the stage for later eras rather than contain decisive engagement between civilizations (for elaboration of this see this post) it is my intend to extend the timeline backward up to the year 1900 to encompass the first world war. I may or may not decide to add my own artistic license to this period to make it more interesting and in line with the Command and Conquer flavor.

The project is intended to run through three stages the first producing a game that ends with Red Alert 2, the second adding Yuri and the third and final stage adding the Tiberium related eras and content.

PROJECT ROADMAP:

Spoiler ROADMAP :
My current project roadmap is as follows. Important milestones are marked in bold.
  1. Design unit categories. (in progress)
    1. Ground units (done)
    2. Air units (in progress)
    3. Naval Units (in progress)
    4. Civilian units (done)
  2. Design individual units for each category and their era specific upgrade trees. (in progress)
    1. Ground units (in progress)
    2. Air units (in progress)
    3. Naval Units (in progress)
    4. Civilian units (done)
  3. Design Civics. (in progress)

  4. Design Religions / Ideologies. (in progress)

  5. Design buildings. (in progress)

  6. Design tech tree to fit all of the above. (requires all of the above to be complete before starting)

  7. Create a pre-alpha that has the tech tree end at the end of Red Alert 2 with placeholder art and assets. (requires all of the above to be complete before starting)

  8. Fill out the art and assets whilst bug testing and balance testing.

  9. Repeat steps 1 through 5 in regard to Yuri related content.
  10. Add Yuri, turrets and other things that require DLL coding with placeholder art and assets.

  11. Fill out the art and assets whilst bug testing and balance testing.

  12. Repeat steps 1 through 5 in regard to Tiberium related content.
  13. Add the Tiberium timeline with placeholder art and assets.
  14. Fill out the art and assets whilst bug testing and balance testing.

  15. Beta release, bug testing, maintenance etc.
 

PPQ_Purple

Purple Cube
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PROJECT DETAILS
UNIT CATEGORIES:
Spoiler GROUND :

I have a rough idea of the unit trees that I want to have and how I want them to upgrade through the ages. I can't really post everything here in a reasonable manner so I'll just outline the base concepts:

Infantry - Your basic infantry unit unlocked at the start of the game. It's cheap, has 1 :move:and respectable but meh:strength:. Overall think warrior. It's claim to fame and role overall will be that it is a decent defensive unit and the only one that has absolutely no building or resource requirements. And of course that it is the cheapest combat unit of all. So even in the very late game you will be building units from this line in your new cities or if you need to spam out units fast.

Motorized Infantry - Unlocked in the early RA1 era or late WW1 era. Same stats as infantry but with 1 extra :move:. So it is strictly better but it costs slightly more :hammers:and it requires both the war factory and/or (not decided yet) the barracks to construct as well as access to oil. In the RA2 era it upgrades to mechanized infantry and gets AA interception chance (since that is what RA2 transport vehicles do).

Cavalry - This is the recon line. The original cavalry unit is unlocked in the 1st era and requires no buildings and horse as a resource. It upgrades into various vehicles in the later eras. I am undecided between them becoming light tanks or recon vehicles. But it ends with things like the nod buggy. Either way think scout and explorer basically. The vehicle versions will require oil and a war factory to construct.

Tank - The tank line is your city attack unit line. They are the only units that can get City Raider promotions and they get a bonus vs turrets. So the reason you build these is explicitly to break cities and forts with infantry and motorized infantry being your main combat units for a stack. A role which becomes extra important once you understand how I intend turrets to work.

The first tank is unlocked in the WW1 era and has 1x:move:. And in the RA1 era it upgrades to 2x :move:. In the RA2 era you get the next upgrade called modern tank with the Tank Destroyer and Tesla Tank being UU's. And than in the 2nd Tiberium era you get the last upgrade which gives you things like the Prism Tanks, Stealth Tanks and the GDI walkers.

All tanks require the war factory and access to oil to construct.

Heavy Infantry / Anti Tank - First unlocked in the RA1 era this line starts with standard rocket soldiers and than it upgrades into proper heavy infantry like Tesla Troopers in the RA2 era finally ending in the Tiberium eras with Cyborgs and Wolverines. Units from this line do the same role as regular vanilla anti tank units. They all require the barracks to construct.

Anti Air - Same as vanilla anti air. This line starts in the RA1 era with a rocket trooper and continues on like this through the RA2 era. In the tiberium era it upgrades to AA vehicles.
The infantry units require barracks and the vehicles require a war factory and access to oil. And yes, this does indeed mean you will be able to build the old units in later eras if you have different production buildings in your cities. It might sound like a bad idea but when you think about it AA is AA and all you are sacrificing is some :move: And they cost fewer :hammers:.

Paratroopers - Same as vanilla paratroopers. They are unlocked in the RA1 era and upgrade through the eras to remain relevant in terms of :strength: Late era paratroopers are flavored as GDI drop troopers. They require the barracks to build.

Marines - These start off as vanilla marines and upgrade into racketeers. The later are basically the infantry equivalent of helicopters. As in they act like CIV4 helicopters but without the bonus vs tanks. They can capture cities however so I think that's a good trade. All units from this like require the barracks to construct.

Artillery - The artillery line is something I am unsure of in terms of flavor but I am sure in terms of mechanics. The later are basically CIV4 artillery but with an added ranged attack with range 1 because that's something I always thought artillery should have. You get your first artillery unit in the WW1 era and they upgrade through the line into just more mobile artillery units. They require the Arsenal to construct, even the vehicle versions. The later will require oil though.

Super Tank / Mammoth Tank - The most powerful ground units in the game with both high damage and an AA interception chance. Otherwise they are basically really huge tanks with more :strength:. So the same things apply like no defensive bonuses and stuff.This line is likely only going to have two steps the first being the OG mammoth from RA1 (with the Apocalypse and Overlord being UU's) and the second being the Mammoth II from Tiberium Sun and its lore appropriate UU equivalents.

These units will be intentionally overpowered but balanced by the fact you will only be able to build a limited amount of them per civ (same mechanics as missionaries and executives) and that they will require both the war factory and arsenal to build. The 1st upgrade will require either oil or uranium (not decided yet) and the 2nd Tiberium to construct.

Turret - Turrets are basically what they were in the games. That being powerful but immobile defensive units meant to protect cities and forts. If anyone is familiar with the FFH Leash mechanics you'll know what I mean here. If not, look it up because that's what I intend to use once I get to DLL work. But basically these units will be powerful but defense only units. And the only way to reliably crack them will be to either bring overwhelming numbers, bomb them with artillery and air power until weak or bring tanks.

The line will start with a pillbox in the WW1 era and advance through Tesla and laser towers later on. The later will get a ranged attack and possible even collateral damage to make them even nastier.

Finally I also intend to eventually add the RifE mechanic of having a turret spawn when ever you build a fort improvement. I also intend to make them cost extra upkeep to balance them and make it so that you don't just want to spam turrets. Again a RifE mechanic. But these two will be post-beta additions.

In fact, just look at the RifE fort commanders and you'll get what I want to do here. It's basically a strait copy of those with some reflavoring and improvements.

Spoiler AIR :

As far as air units go the base game got it right really. You only need two unit types here, one to attack other aircraft and strafe enemy armies and the other to be a dedicated bomber. I intend to keep that layout by also having just two air units.

This said, helicopters should have a place in this mod but honestly I have no idea how to place them as realistically the role is filled by the rocketeer and they are just flat out cooler.

Spoiler NAVAL :

The naval game in CIV4 is quite complex.The ships in this category have to fight, carry aircraft, scout and transport troops among other things so my idea here is to have the following.

Transport - Transports troops, has no production requirements so as to permit some naval unit construction to anyone at any time.

Battleship - The most powerful naval units you can build. They will require oil and coal initially (later just oil) and the naval shipyard to construct. They can also bombard city defenses and come with a ranged attack. The category includes both conventional gun warships and things like the Red Alert 2 Dreadnought in terms of art.

Destroyers - This category of ships serves the role of escorting other ships against submarine and air attack. They will require oil to build and I am unsure if to allow them to be built without the naval shipyard or not.

Privateer - In a word submarines. As in, I intend to give submarines hidden nationality and have them be used as privateers. Later during the DLL cycle I intend to code an on/off toggle for it like in FFH. They will require oil and the naval shipyard to construct.

Missile Submarine - Large submarines that carry cruise and atomic missiles. Same as in vanilla. They will require oil or uranium and the naval shipyard to construct.

Carrier - Aircraft carriers, same as in vanilla. They will require oil (tier 1), uranium (tier 2) and the naval shipyard to construct.


Spoiler UNIT UPGRADE TREE :

Note that if any units are on the line between two eras this is because I am yet unsure which of the two to put them in.

Unit Upgrade Tree.png



ERAS:
Spoiler :

Regular CIV4 ha 7 eras. Ancient, Classical, Medieval, Renaissance, Industrial, Modern and Future. In my experience the gameplay of those works out like this:
  1. Ancient: Nothing much happens. You scout a bit, maybe found a 2nd city or a 3rd if you are really quick. But there is no war and probably no diplomacy either. This is the stage where you are just discovering critical resources and stuff really.
  2. Classical: Some wars might happen on faster speeds and on smaller maps. Otherwise this is the era where diplomacy really starts but there is still enough space that wars don't really happen much.
  3. Medieval: The map is somewhat crowded now. And everyone is scrambling to settle the various resources which inevitably end up in between you and the AI. This is where most of the mid game wars and rivalries really flare up. So it's the first really massively active era.
  4. Renaissance: A direct continuation of Medieval. Literally more of the same.
  5. Industrial: Things have mostly consolidated at this point. Empires are big. Vassals are a thing if you have them enabled. The game is usually decided by this point if you are going for quick victory conditions like Cultural.
  6. Modern: Things rarely get to this point but it's just more of the same. Unless something is seriously done to shake things up it's honestly boring. Which is a shame since this is where you get all the cool toys.
  7. Future: This era is a token. It's like 3-4 techs and 2 units.
Feel free to correct my assessment of these as it is based only on my personal experience and nothing else. And I play only slowly and on huge maps and I am not a very good player either.

Anyway, because I really enjoy this gameplay progression (except for the modern era) I want to replicate it in this mod. I also want to put the most fun bits in the part of the game where most stuff happens. So under those assumptions I would create the following eras as direct equivalents. Note that the names are working versions and that the years are only listed here as a rough outline for you, the reader, to figure out what I intend to unlock in terms of technologies, weapons,civics etc. in each age.
  1. Era 0: 1900 - WW1 start in 1914. This replaces the short ancient era.
    You unlock the same techs as in the base game but re flavored. So instead of "animal husbandry" you have "Industrial Cattle Farming". The lore being that it's the late industrial revolution and you are presiding over transition to modern industrial societies. So in that case unlocking the "pasture" improvement represents a switch from the historical small family farm with some cows into an actual industrial factory farm with thousands of cows fit to feed an industrial civilization.

  2. Era 1: 1914 - 1930. This is the era when you scout the map, spam cities, pop goodie huts etc. It's also the era where you unlock most of the base stuff you'll use to later unlock RA toys.
    At the start of this era you will unlock machineguns, the first turrets (see turrets section), the first production buildings (see the production buildings section) and than by the end of it you will have tanks, fighters and most of the things you need to start WW2 but no RA specific techs.

    I might also include some of my own made up flare and flavor later on to spice this era up. But that's post beta content.

  3. Red Alert 1 era: 1930 - 1950. In my experience most wars and stuff don't really happen before the medieval era. So that's where I'd put all the cool toys.
    Canonically RA1 starts at some point in the mid to late 40's. But a specific date is newer given. The idea with this era is to let the player slowly progress through the in game tech tree as seen by what is unlocked in the missions and when. For example, early techs in this era will unlock unlocking light, medium and heavy tanks and anti tank infantry with rocket launchers. By the middle of it you'll get jet fighters and helicopters. And one of the very last techs in the era unlock the mammoth tank.

  4. Red Alert 2 era: 1960 - 1980.
    RA2 is my favorite of all the games and the one I know best. Like I can and have beaten the game on Brutal under par time in a single sitting several times now, including last Saturday. Canonically the game is set in the 70's. It's also canonically not canonical in the Tiberium universe. But I like it so it's going in.

    In regular CIV this is the era where you transition from old style units to gunpowder units. And it so happens that in the C&C universe this is when really cool things like Tesla troopers and tanks and all the really cool stuff starts appearing. So expect lots of that. For example the Tesla tank is going to be the Russian UU that replaces modern tanks.

    Also, in post-beta this is the era when you will be able to spawn Yuri. To see what I mean by Spawn check out the Mercurials and Infernals from FFH.

  5. First Tiberium War era: 1990 - 2020.
  6. Second Tiberium War era: 2020 - end of game

BUILDINGS:
Spoiler :

Regular Buildings:
I want to keep most of the original CIV4 balance in place in terms of buildings and stuff. That is to say I intend to have the buildings become in such a way so as that the player receives bonuses to :food:,:c5happy:,:hammers:,:c5gold:,:espionage:,:science: and :culture: upgrade buildings at roughly the same rate as in the base game. The way I intend to achieve this is by basically listing how many of which type of upgrade building comes up in which era and than having the mod roughly follow the same guidelines.

For example, the ancient era in CIV4 gives you 4x:culture: (temple, monument, library, monastery) ,2x:food: (granary, lighthouse),1x:c5happy: (temple), 2x:science:(library, monastery).
So analogously Era 0 is going to contain similar buildings although not identical completely. See buildings details section when it is published.

The goal ultimately is not to make direct copies but just to keep things roughly balanced so as to make sure you don't end up with stupid things like me forgetting to put any culture buildings in the early era.

Production Buildings:
In order to keep with the flavor of Command and Conquer I intend to add production buildings that are required in a city before it can produce certain unit types. The mechanic here is exactly the same as how in the base game you need monasteries to produce missionaries. And it is going to replicate the C&C base building mechanic as well as act as a gatekeeping mechanic to stop the player and AI from spamming too many units. I got the idea from the vanilla Drydock.

Each of these buildings will each be required to unlock a certain category of units and come with a bonus to :hammers:. However they will each come with a penalty as well by adding :yuck:. The idea here is to make them a tradeoff so that you don't want to just spam build them in every city as soon as they unlock. Instead you will have to specialize cities and think carefully where you put what. Do you really want to have every city able to produce tanks? Probably not.

The buildings planned and the era they are unlocked in are roughly as follows:
Barracks - Unlocked automatically at the start of the game and acts like the regular CIV barracks. The only difference is that it's also required for late game (RA2 and later) advanced infantry units.
War Factory - Unlocked in the late WW1 era with early tanks. Adds :hammers: when building units and 2 x :yuck:. Required to build all vehicles.
Airfield - Unlocked in the late WW1 era at the same time when you get aircraft. It acts as the regular CIV airfield. Required to build all aircraft other than the airship.
Arsenal - Unlocked at the middle of the WW1 era with your first artillery unit. Adds :hammers: when building units and 2 x :yuck:. Required to build artillery units and superheavy units like the Mammoth Tank. This is going to be the Battle Lab equivalent.
Naval Shipyard - Unlocked at the middle of the WW1 era with first heavy warships. Acts like the vanilla Drydock which already adds :hammers: and :yuck:. Required to build all naval units other than early transports which are your galley equivalents.

CIVICS:
Civics are currently a work in progress. My current intent is to have the 5 standard categories plus a sixth representing military policy. Discussion is ongoing for potentially another category to be added but if this is agreed upon it will happen after step 6 for reasons of time and my current lack of modding skill.
Spoiler Government :

  1. ???
    default civic - no effect
    There has to be some sort of default for the game to fall back on even if several others are available from the start. Unless

  2. Absolutism / Dictatorship
    Vanilla monarchy civic but with high instead of medium upkeep.
    Available from the start.

  3. Representation
    Same as vanilla. I like this civic and I do not think it needs to change.
    Available from the start.

  4. Right now I am thinking this should be some sort of civic to represent imperialism as a government form.
    Mechanics vise the FFH city states civic (less maintenance at the cost of a :culture: penalty) seems appropriate.

  5. Universal Suffrage
    Same as vanilla I guess. I don't really like the vanilla civic but have no ideas what else to do here.

Spoiler Labor :

  1. Transitional Workforce
    Lore: Represents the period in any nations history where the workforce is transitioning from a preindustrial model to a fully industrial one, such as was the case in 19th century England, 1920's Russia or the modern developing world.
    Mechanics: default civic - no effect

  2. ???

  3. ???
    Lore: This civic represent the mass mobilization of the population of a country for large scale industrial projects such as was seen in the rapid forced industrialization of the Soviet Union where peasants were made to move to the city and work on industrial projects often at a great temporary cost to everyone involved.
    Mechanics:
    1. Slavery equivalent but with reduced :hammers: yield.
    2. Penalty to :food: production.
  4. Public works
    Same as vanilla serfdom. I think it fits both lore vise and as a mechanic that needs to be retained.

  5. Service Economy
    Vanilla Cast System.
    I like this civic in the base game and think it represent sour current western economy based off specialist services rather than manufacturing well.

Spoiler Legal :

  1. ???
    default civic - no effect

  2. ???

  3. ???

  4. Police State
    +25%:espionage:in all cities
    +1:c5happy: from Security Bureau, Prison etc.

    I think this one fits in the legal category better than the government type category because it represents how the country runs its internal politics.

  5. Free Speech
    Same as vanilla.

Spoiler Economy :

  1. Decentralization
    default civic - no effect

  2. Free Market
    Same as vanilla.

  3. Protectionism
    Vanilla mercantilism

  4. Central Planning
    Same as vanilla.

  5. Environmentalism
    Same as vanilla

  6. War economy
    A version of the Crusade civic from FFH. In case people are unfamiliar with FFH the Crusade civic in FFH is unique to the Bannor civilization that has the following features:
    • Can only be adopted if you are at war.
    • You have to switch out of it if you want to make peace. It literally locks you out of diplomacy with enemies entirely via mechanic until you switch out.
    • You can't build any units or buildings other than military ones.

      In exchange you get several bonuses to war including:

    • Bonus to the number of upkeep free units.
    • +25% to military unit production.
    • Bonus :c5happy: in all cities (to compensate for the loss of being able to build buildings)
    • -75% War Weariness.
My intent is to produce something similar but not identical to this.​

Spoiler Military :

  1. ???
    default civic - no effect

  2. Conscription
    Can conscript units from the Infantry line.

  3. Professional
    Bonus XP - basically the bonus from vassalage has been moved here.

  4. Fanaticism
    -50% war weariness
    Can train certain unique units.

  5. ??? I am not sure what to do here. Part of me wants it to be some sort of civic to represent the late game use of robots, cyborgs and cloned units. I already indent to have the cloning vats be a wonder that reduces war weariness so it would fit.

Spoiler Religion / Ideology :

  1. Nationhood
    Lore: The nation has no specific ideology beyond a general feeling of national identity and mind nationalism as was the default before WW1 turned everything up to 11.
    Mechanics: default civic - no effect

  2. Propaganda
    Lore: The government nominally allows differing opinion but uses propaganda to push its views on the population relentlessly. See modern western nations as an example of this.
    Mechanics: Vanilla Organized Religion

  3. ??? - I am thinking something like censorship but I need a harsher word.
    Lore: The government does NOT allow differing views and opinions and will step on you if you have them.
    Mechanics: Vanilla Theocracy.

  4. ???
    I do not like vanilla Pacifism as I don't think it would really fit in this context. But I need a civic to fill the slot here to keep things symmetrical.
    I was thinking maybe something to represent personality cults and generic Nationalism where there is no official state ideology other than the state it self. Or something similar. But I don't know. It seems cool but also superfluous.
    Suggest things to me is what I am saying.

  5. Pluralism
    Lore: The government actually allows differing opinions and stuff rather than just pretending that it does.
    Mechanics: Vanilla free religion.
 
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<Nexus>

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First! :D

The thread looks really nice and well organized :goodjob:
Haven't read it all, so I'll comment later but I wanted to say that besides music (and other sound related modding*) I also offer my help in regards of 2D graphics, like buttons and video editing.

*I think it would be really cool and authentic, if tech quotes were unit burps from the games. :crazyeye: Though I'm not sure, if everything could be covered :think:
 

PPQ_Purple

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First! :D

The thread looks really nice and well organized :goodjob:
Haven't read it all, so I'll comment later but I wanted to say that besides music (and other sound related modding*) I also offer my help in regards of 2D graphics, like buttons and video editing.

*I think it would be really cool and authentic, if tech quotes were unit burps from the games. :crazyeye: Though I'm not sure, if everything could be covered :think:
I already have a word document going for those. :)
Great minds think alike it would seem.

Also, the content up in the thread is mostly just copy paste from the old thread but reorganized with a few bits added in. But if it is no problem I would like to call everyone to help me fill out the empty civic slots as those are my current priority.
 

<Nexus>

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But if it is no problem I would like to call everyone to help me fill out the empty civic slots as those are my current priority.
Brainstorming mode ON:

Legal:
1. Civil Law
2. Religious Law
3. Common Law
(No idea for the bonuses so far)

Military:
1. Volunteer Army
5. M. A. D.

Ideology:
3. Persecution
4. Religious Traditions: Ideologies are not as important as the nation's inherited religion. Maybe this could be a starting civic instead? I know it's too similar to Nationhood but maybe triggers a good idea in some other heads.
 

PPQ_Purple

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Military:
1. Volunteer Army
5. M. A. D.
Professional is the same as volunteer army.

Ideology:
3. Persecution
That's one potential name for the Theocracy equivalent I have planned. So far the list of potential names for it is:
  1. Censorship
  2. Persecution
But I feel we need something more... raw. How do I put it. Think of words like thoughtcrime. Something along those lines. Something that would evoke images of the secret police knocking at your door in the middle of the night asking if you've heard the good word about our lord and savior the great leader.
4. Religious Traditions: Ideologies are not as important as the nation's inherited religion. Maybe this could be a starting civic instead? I know it's too similar to Nationhood but maybe triggers a good idea in some other heads.
Interesting idea. What would the mechanics of that be?
 

<Nexus>

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Interesting idea. What would the mechanics of that be
Similar to Atheist in AND/CoM?
-1🙂 per ideology
Some :culture: and 🙂 bonus from the church.
I think it should be an early civic, really useful only till ideologies are widespreading.
 

<Nexus>

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pecheneg

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I didn't have any really elegant thoughts about totalitarianism. A simple option.
1. Since the vanilla police/military economy are responsible for mobilization, totalitarianism as such remains mainly the control of the population in peacetime. At the same time, totalitarian regimes successfully competed with democracies in science and temporarily gave high rates of economic growth, but long-term lost to supermarkets and Hollywood action movies of category "B". That is:
2. Totalitarianism gives the same +3 to science per specialist, but instead of "built-in" happiness, it is provided by soldiers.
3. At the same time, units with double suppression are available. For example, something with the parameters of an ordinary infantryman, but strictly defensive and with the same bonus.
4. As a result, since the garrisons are compact, totalitarian regimes have more "free" soldiers than dictatorships.
5. These same "specialists" facilitate expansion by promptly suppressing rebellions in captured cities. + in combination with the "police", they can generally reset the fatigue from the war without supernatural costs.
6. At the same time, more loyal population = extensive production growth due to the development of new tiles and specialists.
7. The price of the question is -25% (?) to population growth and culture.
8. The cost is average. With a high totalitarianism will be fundamentally unprofitable + it is basically about cheap control of the population (intimidation instead of giving).
9. Well, the general meaning of the application is exactly the same as in reality. Do you have constant riots and you can't grow normally because there aren't enough luxury resources and opportunities to build "happy" buildings? Totalitarianism will solve your problems for a while.

At the same time, as technological growth increases, new suppressive units and buildings with greater efficiency may become available. Big Brother has more and more technical capabilities.
 
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<Nexus>

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More ideas for the Legal category:
1. Aristocracy: The nobility has privileges. Default.
2. Masculinism (?) All man are equal and has the privileges.
3. Bureaucracy: The state controls and constantly oversees how it's citizens may use their rights. Privileges depend on paper work and the occasional bribery.
4. Police state: The state has all privileges.
5. Free speech: Equality by the laws.



But I feel we need something more... raw. How do I put it. Think of words like thoughtcrime.
I get it. Basically I would like the word Thoughtcrime, but I feel it's too Orwellian. I mean that's a different universe.
How about Thought Control?
 

PPQ_Purple

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I didn't have any really elegant thoughts about totalitarianism. A simple option.

1. Since the vanilla police/military economy are responsible for mobilization, totalitarianism as such remains mainly the control of the population in peacetime. At the same time, totalitarian regimes successfully competed with democracies in science and temporarily gave high rates of economic growth, but long-term lost to supermarkets and Hollywood action movies of category "B".
It seems to me like you are assuming causality or even relation between the two. This is something that I categorically disagree on. The idea that democracy must always win out and totalitarianism must always loose because liberal democracy is somehow magically better flies both in the face of history and is frankly just propaganda based on effect ergo cause logic.

The long term victory of america vs the Soviet Union which is what you seem to be referencing has nothing to do with their political system and everything to do with the fact that one of the two saw WW2 as a period of unprecedented economic growth with minimal casualties while the other bore the brunt of its economic and human cost. So whilst one could sustain a massive arms race the other simply couldn't. And in the immediate postwar environment it was america and the west that continually pushed for that arms race for that reason.

2. Totalitarianism gives the same +3 to science per specialist, but instead of "built-in" happiness, it is provided by soldiers.
3. At the same time, units with double suppression are available. For example, something with the parameters of an ordinary infantryman, but strictly defensive and with the same bonus.
4. As a result, since the garrisons are compact, totalitarian regimes have more "free" soldiers than dictatorships.
5. These same "specialists" facilitate expansion by promptly suppressing rebellions in captured cities. + in combination with the "police", they can generally reset the fatigue from the war without supernatural costs.
6. At the same time, more loyal population = extensive production growth due to the development of new tiles and specialists.
7. The price of the question is -25% (?) to population growth and culture.
8. The cost is average. With a high totalitarianism will be fundamentally unprofitable + it is basically about cheap control of the population (intimidation instead of giving).
9. Well, the general meaning of the application is exactly the same as in reality. Do you have constant riots and you can't grow normally because there aren't enough luxury resources and opportunities to build "happy" buildings? Totalitarianism will solve your problems for a while.

At the same time, as technological growth increases, new suppressive units and buildings with greater efficiency may become available. Big Brother has more and more technical capabilities.
These are not bad ideas but I just don't think they are a fit for what I am trying to do.
My issue with this is that it is frankly just too complex. I have played a number of mods in recent years that try to be simulationist and I generally don't enjoy them. I much prefer the relative simplicity of vanilla or base FFH where every choice has a specific and relatively simple to understand purpose and place. Where as mods like RFC or Caveman to Cosmos just drive me up a wall.

I am overall very much a proponent of the less is more school of game design when it comes to this.
 

<Nexus>

Traveler of the Multiverse
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In a constant brainstorm...
It seems to me like you are assuming causality or even relation between the two. This is something that I categorically disagree on. The idea that democracy must always win out and totalitarianism must always loose because liberal democracy is somehow magically better flies both in the face of history and is frankly just propaganda based on effect ergo cause logic.

The long term victory of america vs the Soviet Union which is what you seem to be referencing has nothing to do with their political system and everything to do with the fact that one of the two saw WW2 as a period of unprecedented economic growth with minimal casualties while the other bore the brunt of its economic and human cost. So whilst one could sustain a massive arms race the other simply couldn't. And in the immediate postwar environment it was america and the west that continually pushed for that arms race for that reason.
+1

"There is no advanced industrial democracy in the world more politically divided, or politically dysfunctional, than the United States today." - Ian Bremmer

“A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largess [gifts] from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury, with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy.” - British historian Alexander Tyler

These could even work as some tech quote 🙂

In fact, autocracy and democracy are both dangerous and harmful.
 

PPQ_Purple

Purple Cube
Joined
Oct 11, 2008
Messages
5,075
The universal truth of all forms of government is that economics trumps everything else. The most enlightened and freedom loving regime in the world will get overthrown if its people have a big enough dip in their living standards and yet a government literally built on human sacrifice will keep going with the full consent of its people as long as it can keep them convinced that ripping the hearts of their still living neighbors is what it takes to ensure the next harvest is bountiful.

ideology, philosophy and even morality are the pastime of rich and bored.
 
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