commerce/gold Question


May 24, 2007
is it true that only the tile/palace commerce can be transformed to science
on the commerce slider?
if so were does the commerce go from trade routes does it go strait to your gold suplies
i hope somebody can explain this to me

plus what is the exact differance between commerce and gold
for example if I put in a city a merchant I see the 3 commerce be ad strait to my gold/commerce suplies

thanks for any help on the subject
commerce is transformed into gold/beakers/culture/spypoints depending on your % gold/research/culture/espionage bars.

gold is gold/money
beakers are science
I believe the merchant specialist actually produces gold not commerce

Same as the scientist specialist produces beakers not commerce.

The icon for gold and commerce look similar.
but can I change the commerce from the trade routes into beakers as well
I thought that only the tile/palace commerce could do that
the commerce slider applies to all commerce coming in to all of your cities. trade routes and tiles you're working. that's why it annoys me to have to turn up the culture slider for WW at times that only some cities are whining, because other cities would be fine without wasting that part of their commerce on something they don't need.

gold that goes directly to your gold supply is shown as gold coins on your city screen. examples i can think of all come from buildings, and are shown on the building list on the left of the city screen. holy shrine income, corporate HQ income, and the 2g per state religion building if you have the spiral minaret. that's why shrines are a great help at keeping your slider high, they're a guarantee that you have gold coming in even at times when your slider is at 100% or something that adds up to 0% gold/100% everything else combined. that sort of income is multiplied by buildings in the city, which is why wall street in your shrine/corporate headquarters city is so powerful. when you hover over the gold part of the commerce slider, that'll show up as "from buildings".

oh and the gold per turn you get from selling resources to other civs is also straight gold, not affected by the slider or by any buildings.
thanks"KMADcandy" Iam at work right now and I really had to know
it was in me head all day
I knew this before but I forgot it
how about a merchant is that strait gold too
since a week or two I play on monarch and more knowhow is needed
merchants are straight gold, and that money is multiplied by markets/banks and stuff too :) i'm trying to take a picture of a juicy wall street city to show you, probably more detail than you need but i'm in a typing mood, so this is "to be continued" *giggle*
merchants are straight gold, and that money is multiplied by markets/banks and stuff too :) i'm trying to take a picture of a juicy wall street city to show you, probably more detail than you need but i'm in a typing mood, so this is "to be continued" *giggle*

a bank multiplies gold ?
i thought commerce
ok this is my best attempt at a basic explanation of commerce/gold, using examples, and trying not to be too overwhelming like some guides i remember seeing back somewhere. please don't be offended if it's too basic, i'm not assuming you're dumb. i just err on the side of detail since i prefer that folks don't assume i know something, i like them to spell it out ;).

anyway, spoilered since it's long and has screenshots, to save those with slow speeds.
Spoiler :
here's my wall street / shrine / double corporate headquarters capital:

my base commerce is 94, but if you bother counting it up, only 49 of that is from tiles. then the other sources get added in: 8 is from the palace which isn't showing up. 36 from trade routes. my slider is at 0% gold in this shot so none of that base commerce matters at all, it's adding 0 gold to the total before the multipliers. but it shows the answer to your second question "where does the commerce go from trade routes does it go straight to your gold supplies". note that altho this is my capital, i'm not in bureaucracy so i'm not getting the +50% multiplier to that 49 which doesn't matter anyway.

i'm running 7 merchant specialists (the max wall street/market/grocer allows me), so that's 21 pure gold not commerce. and i get 448 :eek: from buildings. that's the nice shrine and very powerful corporations, and i got some random event that added 1g to my market permanently (i didn't complain about that).

because i have a bank/market/grocer and wall street, i get 200% multiplier there. no other city can get more than 100%, since you can only have one wall street. so, the total is (0 from commerce slider + 21 from specs + 448 from buildings) + (0+21+448 times 2) = 1407. i've seen much better cities, but this is the one i have in my current game so it's what i used.

here's the same city at 100% gold on the commerce slider:

i make 1689 in that city. not a dramatic difference, because 94 isn't really that much compared to the 469 from other sources.

this city is a far more usual case. this city's only source of "pure gold" is running one priest specialist. he gives 1 hammer, 1 gold, 3 science under rep.

at 0% gold:

not so hot

at 100% gold:

that's a huge difference, because there, the slider is my only source of gold (no offense to the priest, he's doing his best). the formula changed from (1 + 0) + (1+0 times 1) to (1 + 71) + (1+71 times 1).

ps my maintenance is HIDEOUS because i have too many resources for my corporations. i keep meaning to fix that...

yup, markets/banks/grocers/wall street add 25%/50%/25%/100% to the gold the city is making, from all sources. so if the city is making no gold, the bank isn't doing anything, and the market is just increasing happiness, the grocer is just increasing health. same thing for libraries and other science buildings.

i suppose the logical conclusion there is that if you're planning to specialize a city to be GreedVille, and to run merchant specialists there but not scientists because your research will come from other places, then you might not need a library there. you might want one at some point, if you plan to run your slider high on science and the city has good "base commerce" before the merchants get to work. or if you need library/uni culture, or more unis for oxford, whatever. but because of course you don't have unlimited production so you have to prioritize things, that lets you prioritize your builds. also the fact that you can't run the merchants you want without those buildings unless you're using caste system. if you're cruel and oppressive like me you tend to use slavery instead ... don't tell nobody. *giggle*
there are two guides in the war academy with titles about specializing your cities, but they talk mostly about where to put your city, not about what happens in the city. that whole list of articles is a great resource, it can be overwhelming tho.

a spiffy thing in BtS i didn't realize until game number 6 or so :crazyeye:: on the info screen, you can see exactly how much commerce you're making with each civ through trade routes. kinda fun. helpful when deciding whether to go merc or not, and can give you a sense of how your total commerce might change if you declare war on somebody, if it's whoever you're getting the worst trade routes with or the best ones, etc. but your other trade routes will adjust once those borders close, so that amount wouldn't be instantly gone. oh you didn't ask about trade routes in general, just about whether they run through the slider. i need to stop typing and hit submit!

ShannonCT's exactly right. if your capital isn't getting much commerce (say it's working food tiles and running specialists instead), then all you'd be getting from bureaucracy really is the 50% hammer bonus. sometimes i move my capital for that reason. in some games i have to move it because another spot is prettier, which is important for morale.

note that i'm an oddball and i'm no expert, i was just in a typing/grabbing examples mood and i think i understand the answers to your questions. i sure hope somebody jumps in to correct me if i'm wrong, so that i don't mislead you and so i can learn myself!
One further point: on the demographics info screen, ignore the import/export ratios and their rankings. "Exports" there means the total commerce all other civs are getting from trading with you, "Imports" the commerce you get from all others, and the ranking is based on imports divided by exports. So a civ with imports 8 and exports 4 gets a ratio of 2 and is ranked higher than one with imports 4 and exports 8 (ratio 0.5), but the second is getting more commerce and ought surely to rank higher. Also, since commerce gained by other civs costs you nothing, of what importance is it ?
Acknowledgements to Robi D's "The inner workings of the Demog screen explained".
Also, since commerce gained by other civs costs you nothing, of what importance is it ?

it's situational, but sometimes it costs you big time, since it speeds them tremendously to have your trade routes. even tho losing trade routes with them slows down your tech rate, the game's not a race as far as the calendar until you approach 2050. what matters on tech speed is how fast you are relative to them. so if merc slows them down more than it does you, you win overall, even tho you lose some commerce. okay, your score at the end is higher if you win early so if you want a high score, then the calendar date does matter *giggle*.

i have city visibility for all my opponents atm, and cristo so i can swap civics easily. i did a test to check going out of merc, to lower my corp costs. the effect was insane! because my best cities are so much bigger than theirs (i'm the only one with most late game health techs, and i adore big cities) and my cities have more base commerce (i'm not locked into automated worker logic like they are), they benefit more from the trade routes they get from me than i do from the trade routes i'd get from them.

gilgamesh's capital with me in merc, so he's limited to trade routes with other people:

gilgamesh's capital with me in FM, so that he has access to my juicy cities to trade with:

in this one city, the trade route portion of his base commerce before multipliers doubled. multiply that effect across all of his cities. i don't know whether they all doubled, i didn't want to check them all, he has a bunch, but we can assume that at least some of his other cities benefited at least a bit. with his slider set exactly the same in both cases (since i haven't hit enter), the amount of gold he gets per turn has increased by an order of magnitude. he's now making per turn as much as he has total in his treasury!

the turns til his next tech dropped by 3 instantly, someone else's dropped from 15 to 10. and of course they'll adjust their sliders when i hit enter, to increase science since they're comfortable making far less gold/turn than that.

meanwhile the gain to me was basically the extra trade route i got from free market. in my best cities half or more of the trade routes were still with my other best cities and not with theirs :crazyeye:. that's partly due to the map. it's hemispheres and i'd say 90% of my cities are coastal and whole bunches of them count as "overseas" to each other. then again, all of their cities are overseas as well.

it's situational. in this game my cities are lovely compared to theirs because of the health tech advantage and because nobody's ever declared war on me so i've had all the time in the world to make them pretty. that's not always gonna happen. i'm running rep and a lot of specialists thanks to sid's sushi, so the majority of my science isn't coming from commerce anyway, and the free specialist is really spiffy. even in this game merc wouldn't always have been a win for me. when i got astronomy, wowsa did my commerce benefit huge from their trade routes. back then it was 100% a win to let them in, even with the benefit to them as a factor. but in this case, at this point in the game, i see this as evidence that giving them access to my cities for trade routes is a cost to me because it speeds them up FAR more than it speeds me up.

i used to bring this up on the boards when folks talked about merc and some folks never would believe me. now with espionage, if you get visibility into their cities, you'll be able to see it for yourself. try it out when your cities are nice. save it first, since being in FM or SP might be a win for you ;). but in some situations seeing the impact as it happens might make you think twice about letting them in.
@KMAC Candy:

How do you have 2 corporate headquarters in the same city? I thought you were limited to one corporation per city.
Ghandi33 said:
How do you have 2 corporate headquarters in the same city? I thought you were limited to one corporation per city

You can have any corporations which do not compete for resources in the same city. It's therefore possible to have multiple corporations in a city (up to four), as long as they don't clash.

You can only have one out of Sid's Sushi, Cereal Mills and Standard Ethanol in a city, as they all clash for rice.

Mining Inc clashes with Civilized Jewellers, Creative Constructions and Aluminium Co (though none of these three clash with each other).
Interesting! I always thought that I benefited more from trade than the AI, since my infrastructure is superior. But apparently this was wishful thinking! My own greed for more gold may be my worst enemy....
MrCynical is right. and in fact what i did this game was use what i'd read in the article you linked in your sig! it's been a huge help, i actually have it bookmarked even tho it's so easy to find without one, that's how confused i was at first about corporations *giggle*. thank you so much for putting that together :)!

this is my first game spamming one to the AIs out of my wall street city (mining inc is for my own use and it's in another city because of the clashing). boy do they spam it :crazyeye:. one guy didn't know corporation when i first gave it to him. but he could still make execs. that seemed odd but i checked, there's no requirement for making them other than having the corp in that city. which is spiffy!

Interesting! I always thought that I benefited more from trade than the AI, since my infrastructure is superior. But apparently this was wishful thinking! My own greed for more gold may be my worst enemy....

sometimes you do. but i ran a game long ago, when i was sick and on drugs so my brain wasn't working well enough to really play, where i gave myself spies in every enemy city early on and watched what they did and how they did it. even the barbs, they were the most amusing. i learned a ton from that silly game, it was really quite fun in a bizarre way. and the impact when i switched into merc there was really eye-opening.
Top Bottom