Communism Rework

[ShakaHulu]

I’ve put in god knows how many hours in Civ 6. Not going to check my steam account, it would probably depress me if I saw. In all that time though, probably 100 games, I don’t think I ever seriously used Communism.

So in my last game I specifically set out to make a Communist empire. And after using communism for a bit, I can safely say I was correct in never previously using it. It is just utterly underwhelming.

First, balance wise it’s just blown out of the water by Democracy and New Deal. It’s so not even close it’s not even worth pointing out the numerous ways it falls short. And maybe the fact that it’s poorly balanced would be forgivable if it at least mimicked real life communism, or provided some sort of niche gameplay.

Fascism has a beautiful niche, military. That niche also happens to be historically accurate. Perfect. Communism provides a science bonus? Really? And ~10 extra production in your biggest cities?

Communism needs to fill niche, exactly like fascism does. Historically, communism should be a govt that underdeveloped nations utilize, while more developed nations turn to democracy. New Deal sort of accomplishes that by making Democracy’s major bonuses dependent on development, but I would still take Democracy for the trade route bonuses (which blow communism’s out of the water) even if my empire was underdeveloped.

To be somewhat historically accurate communism should affect amenities. All communist cities should be content. Not unhappy, not happy, content. That mimics real life communism. Since you are no longer using luxury resources, communism should provide a +2 bonus to gold and +2 bonus to production for all improved luxury and bonus resources. Improving luxury and bonus resources are usually the very first thing you do with a new city, so it would be a nice bonus to cities that aren’t well developed.

I’m not an expert on balance, but I do know communism needs a rework. It needs to be more historically accurate, and it should fill a niche. Getting rid of amenities for communist cities and turning those resources into bonus production and gold yields seems like a good start to me.

Edit: Oh! And bring back the communist bonus to Spies! Now THAT would be historically accurate, and again, it would fill a niche. Communism should have improved spies! Lower the base production and mission time for all spies from any govt by 25%, then make Machivellianism a communist only policy card.

With those changes Communism begins to fill a niche - the niche of underdog playing spoiler to the more well developed democracies.

 

[Alexander's Hetaroi]

The Science bonus that Communism has is probably a reflection on the Soviet Union, the prime example of a communist society, being the first to successfully launch an artificial satellite into space. So I don't think the science bonuses are totally out of character.

Plus the Collectivism card that comes with the government kind of gives you what you want with extra food and production from domestic trade routes.

 

[Vargas1]

Huh. Fascism is the one I rarely use (since if I'm going domination, by that point I'm strong enough that I don't really need the bonuses). Communism is my typical go-to for a science victory - +10% (on top of Geneva, Kilwa, maybe Taruga, etc.) can be a pretty massive boost right when you want it.

 

[Chefofrats]

As somebody who grew up under communism, I can't stand the Civilization series idea of giving communism more production and more science as government bonuses. It is a ridiculous, ahistorical idea, recalling not the reality of communist regimes but their image created by propaganda. Yes, communist states built a lot of factories, but they were inefficient and made stuff nobody needed rather than stuff that actually mattered. I still remember learning about our impressive railroad carriage production while there was no toilet paper for weeks at a time at the shops. If anything, communism should give a penalty to production.

 

[Menocchio]

As somebody who grew up under communism, I can't stand the Civilization series idea of giving communism more production and more science as government bonuses. It is a ridiculous, ahistorical idea, recalling not the reality of communist regimes but their image created by propaganda. Yes, communist states built a lot of factories, but they were inefficient and made stuff nobody needed rather than stuff that actually mattered. I still remember learning about our impressive railroad carriage production while there was no toilet paper for weeks at a time at the shops. If anything, communism should give a penalty to production.

You could make the argument that production in Civilisation games typically leans more towards heavy industry, which would be fine and accurate for modelling the industrial output of states like the Soviet Union. The real strange aspect of Communism in Civilisation 6 is the Collectivisation policy card, which... increases food yields. And this, despite the Civilopedia itself noting that Soviet agricultural production was far lower after collectivisation than before.

Though, I suppose there is some extremely dark comedy in Communism being the ideal government type for the Khmer after their rebalance.

 

[Laurana Kanan]

Moderator Action: Moved to Ideas and Suggestions. ~ LK

 

[Galvatron]

The Science bonus that Communism has is probably a reflection on the Soviet Union, the prime example of a communist society, being the first to successfully launch an artificial satellite into space. So I don't think the science bonuses are totally out of character...

That's it but you're underselling them hard.

The second world was winning the not just the space race hard. They were also way ahead of the west in terms of general aeronautics at the start of the cold war. The scientific achievement of the second world countries is shocking when you consider their pathetic budget. Even Cuba today punches way above their weight in the field of medicine.

As somebody who grew up under communism, I can't stand the Civilization series idea of giving communism more production and more science as government bonuses. It is a ridiculous, ahistorical idea, recalling not the reality of communist regimes but their image created by propaganda. Yes, communist states built a lot of factories, but they were inefficient and made stuff nobody needed rather than stuff that actually mattered. I still remember learning about our impressive railroad carriage production while there was no toilet paper for weeks at a time at the shops. If anything, communism should give a penalty to production.

You're confusing consumer products with production. The production that you get from communism goes to infrastructure, which as you mentioned: produces no toilet paper, products no one wants, cars made out of leather, etc.. thats the reason why the new deal isn't available to communism.

I think it's appropriate that liberal democracy produces happier citizens, more growth, and wealth.

 

[Aurelesk]

You're confusing consumer products with production. The production that you get from communism goes to infrastructure, which as you mentioned: produces no toilet paper, products no one wants, cars made out of leather, etc.. thats the reason why the new deal isn't available to communism.

I couldn't say it better. The Monopolies and Corporations game mode made this clearer: consumer Products is a capitalist thing, the very something the communist ideology was fighting against.

In the balance department, maybe Communism, Democracy and Facism should have their policy slots changed. The main advantage of Democracy comes from its card distribution: 3 Economic, 2 Wildcard. This is insane. One way to balance is to change those slots:

Communism: 2 (-1) Military, 3 Economic, 1 Diplomatic and 2 (+1) Wildcard.
Democracy: 1 Military, 2 (-1) Economic, 3 (+1) Diplomatic and 2 Wildcard.
Facism: 3 (-1) Military, 1 (=) Economic, 2 (+1) Diplomatic and 2 (=) Wildcard.

I wonder how powerful Communism would be if, instead of having "+0.6 Production per Citizen in cities with Governors", you will have some city betterment abilities like "+1 Movement and +1 Charge toward Builder and Military Engineer." or "+50% Production toward Districts and their buildings in cities with Governors."

 

[Galvatron]

I couldn't say it better....

Well, you could. Economics explained on YouTube is where I heard that explained in detail. He explains in detail the economy of the Soviets and why it went wrong. It's definitely worth listening to, if you don't mind me shilling for Keynesian economics.