Communitu_79

[tu_79]

In other words, tiny islands are traps.

I think your current problem has more to do with the diplomatic dogpiling rather than a problem with the locations per se.
If all players were human, they would not take all your island cities, since they have to care for the balance of power. After you lose one or two islands, the civ that took them should be a juicy target for the other players too. Facing the loser of a war it's an easy way to take some loot, but leaving the winner alone can be problematic in the long run.

In lower difficulties these tiny islands are very useful, you can use it to position and heal your navy. But in higher difficulties where you are playing against the odds, you need some terrain features to take advantage of. The only thing that creates such thing is the mine field, but it comes too late.
The other option is to reduce ship strength versus city walls, having to use a few embarked melee or plane units to take the city in a reasonable time. The navy will still be needed to protect the embarked units from the enemy navy, but the ai will need to bring many other units to take the spot.

About the map generation, I guess we could remove all of the one tile Islands (Islands surrounded by three rings of just water) but that would feel a bit unrealistic.

 

[azum4roll]

In my current game, no one even went for small islands until late game except Arabia who happened to be near some. I took all the Arabian ones in 2 hits each, using Ironclads (50 version) with the insane city bonuses. Even Mecca with all defensive buildings, Tradition bonuses, 2 garrisons (ship+land unit) with a terrain like Martaban on Island 1 only took 3 or 4 turns to capture.

I think the promotions are too much.

 

[Stalker0]

In other words, tiny islands are traps.
The other option is to reduce ship strength versus city walls, having to use a few embarked melee or plane units to take the city in a reasonable time. The navy will still be needed to protect the embarked units from the enemy navy, but the ai will need to bring many other units to take the spot.

I think you are underestimating how dominant late game AI navies are. When they have 15+ ironclads plus a variety of cruisers and even land forces (the AI has learned how to combine land assault with its naval bombardment), it doesn't matter if the melee ships do a bit less damage, or if the city promotions are reduced a bit (blitz is actually a superior city take promotion than vanguard anyway), a city that is put on a vulnerable spot on an island will not stand, and therefore is not a viable spot for settlement.

Again, I am not look for a complete change (aka removal of all 1 tile islands), it more could there be an adjustment to create a few more viable islands on the given map.

The "ideal" shape (which no idea if it can be coded in terms of likeliness). Is a crescent shape (see the pic), but with the opposite side filled in with land. So this landmass, but with the southeast or northwest water filled with land. This gives you a small island, but with defensibility.

Spoiler :

 

[tu_79]

Well, you can hardcode such islands, but they would look forced. Or you can toy with scattering values to see if they can produce more of these shapes, but honestly that's a lot of work. In comparison, removing 1 tile islands sounds easier.

Hmm. Maybe finding a few 1 tile islands and surrounding it with 6 to 10 land tiles could work, 1 mountain, 2 hills and the rest flat land.

 

[youngsteve]

Can I ask a question about what override assigned starting plots does in relation to the map if on or not. From what I can gather it seems to pick random terrain for civs if on, which is default, but what happens if turned off. It says it reverts back to Vox Populi defaults & certain map options are not available. Does this mean the maps are the same but options to change things are missing when setting up game. If so, I can live with that.

I think the maps are lovely & very well balanced with resources, but the randomness of what terrain you might start with is troubling. Playing England in a desert location is original & might be seen as a challenge by some, but I just want to play normally but at the same time use you wonderful map script.

Sorry must add that I am playing the Vox Populi mod if that makes any difference.

 

[tu_79]

@azum4roll, @vyyt has suggested that we increase the ocean rift width by 1 tile on Terra settings and I agree. Could we do this? I don't know if you plan on some other changes.

 

[azum4roll]

@azum4roll, @vyyt has suggested that we increase the ocean rift width by 1 tile on Terra settings and I agree. Could we do this? I don't know if you plan on some other changes.

What's the rationale on this change, as opposed to just picking Wide rift if you want?

 

[azum4roll]

Can I ask a question about what override assigned starting plots does in relation to the map if on or not. From what I can gather it seems to pick random terrain for civs if on, which is default, but what happens if turned off. It says it reverts back to Vox Populi defaults & certain map options are not available. Does this mean the maps are the same but options to change things are missing when setting up game. If so, I can live with that.

I think the maps are lovely & very well balanced with resources, but the randomness of what terrain you might start with is troubling. Playing England in a desert location is original & might be seen as a challenge by some, but I just want to play normally but at the same time use you wonderful map script.

Sorry must add that I am playing the Vox Populi mod if that makes any difference.

With VP being fully compatible to the map, this setting doesn't do that much.

List of differences from default VP if you turn this on:

• Fertility score calculation, yield based with terrain adjustments instead of hard coded for each terrain. Food is valued less and trees/mountains/marsh are valued more, overall.
  
• Number of natural wonders depends on WorldSizes.sql instead of hardcoded.
• City States can spawn on 2-tile islands, as opposed to at least 4.
• Specific handling for City State distribution in Terra maps.
• Small islands (<5% size of largest island) has a random chance of spawning an extra stone, coal, oil, aluminum or uranium. Not spawning if island already has stone.
  
• Different methods to determine whether jungle or forest should be added to a tree luxury tile. Temperature, humidity and nearby terrain are considered, instead of latitude.
• Different frequency of strategic and bonus resources, to account for the more hilly and scattered Communitu_79a map.
• Fish placement depends on nearby fertility and distance to other fish, instead of randomly scattered. Expect more fish near the poles and small islands.
  
• Changes AI bias according to terra/continents option and largest area size. I'm not sure if this even works in VP.

 

[youngsteve]

With VP being fully compatible to the map, this setting doesn't do that much.

List of differences from default VP if you turn this on:

• Fertility score calculation, yield based with terrain adjustments instead of hard coded for each terrain. Food is valued less and trees/mountains/marsh are valued more, overall.
  
• Number of natural wonders depends on WorldSizes.sql instead of hardcoded.
• City States can spawn on 2-tile islands, as opposed to at least 4.
• Specific handling for City State distribution in Terra maps.
• Small islands (<5% size of largest island) has a random chance of spawning an extra stone, coal, oil, aluminum or uranium. Not spawning if island already has stone.
  
• Different methods to determine whether jungle or forest should be added to a tree luxury tile. Temperature, humidity and nearby terrain are considered, instead of latitude.
• Different frequency of strategic and bonus resources, to account for the more hilly and scattered Communitu_79a map.
• Fish placement depends on nearby fertility and distance to other fish, instead of randomly scattered. Expect more fish near the poles and small islands.
  
• Changes AI bias according to terra/continents option and largest area size. I'm not sure if this even works in VP.

Thanks for the explanation. Certainly put up with that, if it means civs have the correct terrain around them.

 

[tu_79]

What's the rationale on this change, as opposed to just picking Wide rift if you want?

Expectations. When picking Terra setting one would expect to not be able to do anything with the new continent until Renaissance, but given the chance a trirreme can explore the other half and reveal most of the city states, which can be a great advantage for the player who did that (the human?)
Terra maps are already larger, so one more ocean tile cannot hurt, can it?

 

[azum4roll]

Expectations. When picking Terra setting one would expect to not be able to do anything with the new continent until Renaissance, but given the chance a trirreme can explore the other half and reveal most of the city states, which can be a great advantage for the player who did that (the human?)
Terra maps are already larger, so one more ocean tile cannot hurt, can it?

It has to be really wide for a Trireme with double Navigation promotions to not cross it.

 

[tu_79]

It has to be really wide for a Trireme with double Navigation promotions to not cross it.

Three tiles is enough when your units can't see what's on the other side.

 

[azum4roll]

Three tiles is enough when your units can't see what's on the other side.

Navigation increases sight range too (to 5 max with Great Lighthouse).

 

[tu_79]

Navigation increases sight range too (to 5 max with Great Lighthouse).

Ough!

 

[doublex55]

I would prefer a differentiation between continental islands and oceanic islands.

Continenetal Islands: Accessible from mainland continents by coastal water. Larger islands (4+) can appear 1-2 tiles away from mainland. Tiny islands (1-3) can appear 1 tile away from mainland or a larger island.

Oceanic Island Chains: Seperated from mainland continents by ocean. Minimum 10 tiles TOTAL, with one main island being at least 6 tiles. Tiny islands can appear 1 tile away from main island.

I dont know if this is impossible to code but it would be nice.

 

[doublex55]

Seperate question, is there anyway to make less tundra spawn? same question for ice. Thanks!

 

[tu_79]

Seperate question, is there anyway to make less tundra spawn? same question for ice. Thanks!

Higher temperature option does not work?

 

[doublex55]

does that add extra desert and stuff tho? i dont want that.

 

[azum4roll]

Seperate question, is there anyway to make less tundra spawn? same question for ice. Thanks!

For tundra and snow, change line 135 (tundraTemperature) and 136 (snowTemperature) to lower values.

For ice, go to line 4817 and 4818 and lower either odds or oddsMultiplier (or both).

 

[Stalker0]

Ough!

I would say though that if you manage a great ligthhouse and a tier 3 trireme before caravels than you deserve to explore. At that point, your just as likely to get a great admiral and could explore the oceans anyway.

So i think sight 4 should be the focus, sight 5 you get to enjoy a nice reward.