Community bridge to create the Ultimate 'One' MOD and Ultimate Civ Game!

[rightfuture]

The 'ONE' MOD

The Ultimate Mod of Mods with the purpose of bridging and combining the best and the best so that we can all have the best CIV game ever.

This is your mod, not just mine. I hope to make the best dream team collective as possible.

After personally and constantly wanting to create the Ultimate Civilization Mod and Ultimate Civilization Game, and finally being inspired by the efforts and conversations of:

Eduhum
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=482333

I've thinking and
Why don't we, all the community, stop and finish all the things that each one is doing and we organize ourselves to collect all the work and coolness each mod has such as maps, civs, techs, etcetcetcetc..... we can and make the
official fanmade third expansion for civilization 4?

I am dead serious

(conversation thread worth following)

and

TheKingOfSpace
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=484339

I can't speak for anyone else, but for me, C2C is Gaming Enlightenment. C2C is making me question the purpose of games other than CivIV. Why bother with them now, when they will never be as good as CivIV with C2C? Civilization V can never be what C2C is. How can I possibly be excited about Europa Universalis IV now? And to think that C2C is NOT EVEN COMPLETE? To think that the Prehistoric Era is NOT EVEN FINISHED??? I fear that if multi-maps are ever made a possibility, that I will fuse to my PC chair due to not moving from it. And should I die fused to my chair, it will be worth it. There will be no reason to move, as C2C is that good ALREADY. To think of what it has the potential to be..... it has the potential to be THE Video Game. The Ultimate and Absolute, never to be rivaled by anything, EVER. How could ANYTHING compare to a game that literally spans the whole of human existence?

That is all.

(conversation thread worth following)
and

jtanner28
A New Dawn: Resurected!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=471396

Hey everyone!

I just wanted to let everyone know that I have asked Afforess for access to the SVN so that I can try to finish AND 2.0. He said that I could take over management of AND. It's a huge responsibility and I'll try not to mess it up. I'm in the process of getting approval from the forum moderators to be able to edit the OP of the main threads for the mod.

I'll be going through the bug report thread and trying to compile a list of current issues that need attention. Any help on the current issues would be appreciated. I may also need help with SDK, XML, and/or Python issues. There's a lot to do.

I updated the SVN this morning to rev 571 with flitz's Coinage fix. The only file I edited was CvPlayer.cpp. This was mostly just to make sure I have proper access to the SVN. More code changes will come soon.

My other plan is to write a new installer for AND in NSIS. InstallJammer is apparently no longer available.

I'd really like to see AND in a finalized state. It's one of the greatest mods ever hosted there on CFC and I feel honored to be allowed to work on it. Almost like taking a crayon to the Mona Lisa...

Eventually I'd like to incorporate some of the newer AI improvements that are being developed by Karadoc in K-Mod and AIAndy and Koshling in C2C.

Hopefully together we can pull AND back from it's near-death experience and finish the vision of Afforess.

Thanks!

It is possible that AND2.0 can become the core project. Possibly with a K-Mod Merge and a C2C lite core Merge. (it is even feasible to combine the projects for the sake of the community)

and
Mattygerst
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=463918
Hello All RoM Players - Please Read

Hello Everyone...

Recently I have created (and had created with the help of karadoc) an efficient, symptom-free mod with the goal of expanding on it to include the best aspects of ROM.

The mod currently has its base with K-Mod. There is NO BETTER mod than K-Mod in terms of efficiency, AI gameplay, and gamespeed.

I have included BAT graphics as well as Mastery Victory (while fixing all of the bugs) from here at ROM:AND.

My next step is to move forward with updating the tech tree, leaders, civs, units, corps, resources from ROM:AND to this new mod I have created.

If anyone would like to help with ideas, please do so. I will be posting my mod on the forums within the next couple days.

Right now my goal is this:
Take what I have (a bug-free version of KMod, Bat graphics, Mastery Victory, GEM map) and add a CONDENSED version that includes the BEST from ROM:AND for:

-Civs & Leaders
-Units
-Buildings
-Techs
-Wonders
-Resources
-Corporations

Does anyone else have any other thoughts? My idea is to get the best of ROM basics and move forward for now.

Thoughts, ideas, and discussion are welcome...

(to be filled in)

I think that most of these mod ideas and people are thinking most of the same things, and we would get a lot farther if we combined our efforts.
We stand on very common ground. We all want to play a better Civ IV mod if not a better Civ Game. Some of us are happy, but improvement is our goal.
(I don't think most of us were to avoid a Civ 6 if we could dream it up and make it the way we want it, tomorrow)
In basic I believe we can be on the same page. We can surely work out most of our differences.
I think it could be great to try to combine efforts to meet all of our goals.
We all want the same thing, a better version and a continued version of the same type of game.
When it all comes down to it, we are pointed in pretty much the same direction.
Better, improved, stable, complete, more ideas, less clutter, better AI. Fast games and long games.
I think we can work together to find these things. We certainly will find it better together.

The One mod is to be done in the spirit that all of the great mods were started and with the collective best of your dreams.

I suggest we start a project to bridge the best of the best, and to create a Dream Team to create what we all really want, an unlimited version of our best ideas so that we have a chance to play the best mod and the best Civilization game ever! This is meant to be a real mod and not some pipe dream that frustrates people, because it has this or doesn't have that. We intend to start with the best parts of everything
1. The best parts of everything that already exist. So that we can agree.
2. The best modders possible: To create a Dream Team to create better and faster.
3. The best philosophy possible: So that people are free to create and so that all ideas are heard. Debate is there to come up with better solutions. Progress will be on the best solution we can agree on. Ideas for the future will be free to explore anything.
4. The Best Community possible: Hoping to combine the communities of all the great mods so that all ideas can be heard and debated so that we can collectively come up with the best game and the best Civ Mod ever!

Here is my current plan. I am open to almost anything. Help me do 1 better and improve it. This is just a basic outline for starters (any better idea is always welcome):

1. Start with C2C because for many people it already is. It is not meant to replace this mod or any other, but to make them better by freeing their philosophy and taking their best parts.
It has
BUG
REVOLUTIONS (OPTIONAL)
DALE'S COMBAT MOD
REVDCM
RISE OF MANKIND
AND (RAND) - RISE OF MANKIND - A NEW DAWN
already in it and is taking it several generations past.

2. Keep C2C and this mod bridged. That means ideas and help following both ways so that both improve and share code. It is in our best interests to bridge and stay open to as many good mods as possible. Development on C2C will continue to improve this mod and vice versa (I Hope)

3. Try to merge together the best major mods out there, and improve them. Make all the rough and disagreeable parts experimental or optional. And make a lite version of the core accessible to older pc's.

Suggested mods currently are:
C2C: Cavemen2Cosmos
AND 2.0: easy to keep them on the same page
ROM: There is a huge community who want these ideas reconsidered and progress continue, this project continues this idea.
The K-MOD: often considered to be the perfect streamlined improvement to Civ IV. (Probably the 1st consideration for a merge)
Legends of Revolutions: Another great extension that seeks to create a expansion pack of community trimmed mod components and does a great job.
and probably at least
Navigable Rivers (which the C2C team is considering merging in at some point with rivers differently)

Merging the first 2 together (C2C and K-MOD) is probably a good first step.

4. Try to build a team. I am here to keep it on course as a leader or step aside to the greats. The goal is to have the best people, to have a Dream Team, and I hope that we are supported by the leaders/creators/modders of the the great mods as friends, and once they see our united purpose, the leaders of our joint project to the benefit of all mods. This way we can explore new ideas and tackle problems together, like C2C did with Multi-Map development, and can share in a United Community Project to create the best of the best.

5. Create a basic version, a Lite Core, that is a complete game,
-that plays on old machines,
-quickly and without any annoying features and
- that can be bridged and maintained with the unlimited larger main project easily. This mod will be tilted more as a complete AND2.0 / K-MOD streamlined mod with no possible annoying features or experimental/controversial parts.

6. Compile a single wishlist of an ideal future Civ game to be a design document and roadmap outline. This can be anything, the Dream Team and Community can debate it down to the most plausible workable outline to start with. (We can start it now, here, in this thread; feel free to lay out what you think).

Start with imaging your best ideal Civ game and future ideas.

It will include the best of what we all want.
-Existing features from Mods.
-Mods we would love to see included.
-Features from other games. Sim City, Age of Empires, even the good ones from Civ V or What could be Civ 6, etc. (I will make a list here, just let me know what your inspirations are.) This is your chance to dream and create a wishlist!
- Ideas from game design documents and forums. With ideas the sky is the limit, My job is to help them find reason. Anything is worth considering at first, don't limit yourself. We will find a way to keep the less popular ones in check and viable as options so that the gameplay is not limited.

7. Once the Dream Team is together, and we have a working core from existing mods and a outline for a plan, we will be in a position to see what to do next.
Everyone who wants to help will have a role, and the entire community will have a voice. We can take this anywhere so let's try to take it in the direction we all can agree with.

I do believe that any obstacle can be overcome or at least parked until we can work it out. Debate, ideas, and participation should be open, but the best of the best of the best ideas and people should rise to the top so that we can get to reality and make the best Civ IV mod and game ever. It may never be perfect, be we can try.
It's up to you to step up and help make it a reality faster, better stronger, harder.

So I think this is a good start. If you have a better idea (trust me this is just a thrown together start) improve me and join. I'm here to help make sure the best ideas are heard and the best people involved correctly.
For the love of Civ please help me make this dream reality. I want to play and help create the best game possible! I hope you do to. Please let me know what you think and join in!
New Year, New effort, Let's see what we can continue and improve, as well as what we can dream up.
The One Mod - Mod of Mods.
This is just my opinion, to inspire a bridge, and freeform ideas, merges, unity and more, (not to one up, replace, or make C2C obsolete)
To improve, inspire, re-imagine and unify all ideas about Civ, C2C, Future Mods, and what can be done.

 

[Hydromancerx]

While I follow the idea that "more is more" I also see the value in diversity and competition. Having the 'ONE' MOD as you call it seems like it would lead to stagnation and "too many cooks in the kitchen" syndrome.

As it is now different mod do what they want to do and even take features from other mods they like. C2C has taken from a lot of mods but there are some things that just don't fit within C2C such as fantasy or how they do their culture system. Its not that they are bad or anything. In fact the opposite. Some features fit one mod but not another, depending upon the theme and modder making the mod.

If someone wants to take stuff from C2C to make their own "One" mod, then more power to them. I do not think we need to conform to each others mods. Because really whatever cool thing one mod makes, perhaps other mods could use it too. Which leads them to making stuff that the other group would not have thought of.

This is also why modmods are great because different people can express their own idea about a project without messing with the core game. In fact that's what C2C started out as 3 different modmods for RoM/AND. but even before that RoM and AND were made of different existing mods. Its a never ending cycle of people building upon others ideas. Just like AND did not change because C2C existed, C2C would not have to change because the ONE mod exists.

One other thing rightfuture. You always talk about the Civ4 "dream team". Its been here all along. Every person who has contributed to the CFC forum and has posted their work has added something. I never directly worked with Zappara but I can see his work on RoM in C2C. So in a way he is on the C2C team. As a modder you just have to assemble it all.

 

[Thunderbrd]

I agree with Hydro on most points. We ARE the one mod. We ARE the dream team here! If we didn't feel we were we would all be seeking that place where the best have coalesced to join in with them. To me, if other modders on the rest of the site wish to take part in the most aggressive attempt to combine all modding ideals, this is the place for them to pick up their modding toolbag and get to work The very thing that makes C2C what it is has been the very ideal of which they speak.

 

[Arkatakor]

I have to say I really agree with Hydromancerx. Although he is the lead developer of C2C, he has stated that ROM+AND would always have a special place in his gaming heart. Having different mods encourages diversity and different mods are for different people.

For example people who want a smaller, bite sized game, would probably opt for AND. Others who want the "full deal" would opt for C2C.

I for one have never tried C2C as I heard its changing all the time, but should time permit in the future and I am able to afford a better gaming rig, I would love to try it out as it sounds pretty epic.

 

[rightfuture]

The point is not to have too many cooks,
but to take the best of them,
and best of all ideas,
and to try to improve upon them.

@Hydromancerx - I have many times said that C2C already qualifies as a Dream Team, I also have said C2C has already been pointed in the right direction, and has been moving past the more is more paradigm, by exploring
1. New ideas,
2. Constant and continuous improvement,
3. Stability, speed, accessibility to old and new computers with easy to update lite-core and full versions modularity/organization,
4. Addressing major concerns like size, grouping technologies, and improving the awkward undeveloped parts,
5. Expanding limits.

@Thunderbrd
I am proposing to take C2C to the next level and engaging the broader Civfanatics Community while not leaving C2C behind, moving past it, or trying to replace C2C (or any other mod).
I am trying to bridge the best of these worlds. Letting ideas/development go both ways. To combine the best of new and old.
1. a reimaging of the ideal Civ mod. From scatch and from existing mods.
2. taking the best people, the best ideas, the best new start, and the best foundations and coming to a better extrapolation that encompass the best of C2C, K-MOD, BUG, REVDCM, ROM's, and AND's Goals/parts with all concerns taken into consideration.

@Arkatakor
Rock-2-Rockets or AND or K-MOD might satisfy people or fulfill these needs and I'm not here to take away or re-interpret these things, just tie them together, bridge them, and unite them in goal/purpose/community so we can move into the future together.
I am looking for epic co-ordination and unlimited consensus building or at least agreement of best possible merging of ideas, teams, communities as possible.
Trying to be positive and realistic here, and try to float the idea of limiting our possibilities and imagination, not trying to impose my will.
I'm trying to build a better bridge, and gameplay for the possibility of coming together for such a project.
I am willing to change any of these ideas, and am just sharing my opinions for everyone's, the ideal of a better realistic and plausible UNITED CIV MOD, that becomes a BETTER merge of the best ideas and people.

At the least this is to have an ongoing discussion of the possibilities and imaginings for it.
In the middle it could inspire some new merging/imaging/inspiration.
At the most it could inspire a ONE MOD, the MOD of MOD's which could carry the tradition of ROM and a simultaneously lite/core like K-MOD/AND to the limits beyond C2C teamed with C2C.

Just an idea/pursuit attempt.
Do we really want to close our minds to possibilities?
Do we really want to shoot people new ideas down?
Do we really want to fracture ourselves into divided communites which die off or leave niches unexplored?
Do we really want to discourage or limit our exploration?
What if we can make the ideal CIV mod to the extent of potentially exceeding the ideas of CIV IV/V/IV etc?
What if we can unite communities, projects, the best ideas, and the streamline, optionally expanded, best modular hopes, ambitions, project attempts, realities, and dreams to the limits of our imagination and possibilities?
What If?
For those who have read what I've said before, I've addressed many of these concerns.
It is for the sake of new ideas, better ideas, the best ideas, unity, cooperation, considering an ideal mod, etc.
Why limit me, yourself or anyone else? Why not?
What is your idea of improving Civ or creating a better game?

 

[Raven Destroyer]

the Idea of ONE mod is deadly for Any modding community i've seen a lot of modding Community's on several different Genre's of games and one thing i've learned the less mod's that are being produced the less new and innovative ideas get's thought of and implemented the Viewport system of C2C and the planned multimap System are two things that amazed me when i found C2C (idk if shenryyr still reads the forums but thank you for let's playing this mod)
while combining the Best of the Best is in theory the best option it is best for the community that the best of the best work on their own projects Communication between them is usually enough to spark new ideas and a modder that feels he/she had been running in a wall for to long get's dulled and that is never good

 

[Hydromancerx]

@Raven Destroyer

For the game Neverwinters Night there was a community mod called CEP (Community Expansion Pack). It worked out well for awhile. I think they even got to a CEP2. But yeah you need a very dedicated team to do who knows what they are going. Unlike NWN this was a "hak" and not a "mod" so a person using a "Hak" could make their own modules using the "hak", while in Civ4 hak and mod are one in the same.

If anyone cares you can see some animals I made in the NWN CEP. Back when I modded that game.

 

[rightfuture]

the Idea of ONE mod is deadly for Any modding community i've seen a lot of modding Community's on several different Genre's of games and one thing i've learned the less mod's that are being produced the less new and innovative ideas get's thought of and implemented the Viewport system of C2C and the planned multimap System are two things that amazed me when i found C2C (idk if shenryyr still reads the forums but thank you for let's playing this mod)
while combining the Best of the Best is in theory the best option it is best for the community that the best of the best work on their own projects Communication between them is usually enough to spark new ideas and a modder that feels he/she had been running in a wall for to long get's dulled and that is never good

The problem of ONE mod you are referring to is the concept of deferring to the least path of resistance to keep everyone as happy as possible. The idea of C2C and the idea I'm referring to is to focus on the best of what people have to offer, not some mob attempt to go in a hundred different directions with a hundred different ideas. We are aiming at the best collective and individual attempt in unity, the best next level. Built with the best of today and tomorrow. What already is and what can be. To look at what we can do. And to explore and discover what more can be done. This is an attempt to pursue that vision. To move past our limits, our limitations, and help each other get there.

@Raven Destroyer

For the game Neverwinters Night there was a community mod called CEP (Community Expansion Pack). It worked out well for awhile. I think they even got to a CEP2. But yeah you need a very dedicated team to do who knows what they are going. Unlike NWN this was a "hak" and not a "mod" so a person using a "Hak" could make their own modules using the "hak", while in Civ4 hak and mod are one in the same.

If anyone cares you can see some animals I made in the NWN CEP. Back when I modded that game.

I care and you do awesome work Hydromancerx. I like Neverwinter Nights and Spore also, and have even played D&D(actual roleplaying) in the last few months ongoing(online campaign).
Communities can and do accomplish such things, and they can complete it. It is about sustaining momentum and will. It is about creating the will to see it through. I for one want C2C, AND, the K-MOD, to succeed wonderfully, and I want this community project to build that bridge between them, so we can have that best mod exploration together as a team. It is a good place to shift attention to, when the opportunity presents itself.

This is an attempt to unite everyone behind the goal of getting to the best and seeing what we all can do to improve on it.
Whether or not C2C should be that one mod, the idea is valid and it is hard to argue that C2C is not successfully starting to rise above that aim for mediocrity and catering to all ideas. They successfully make progress at coming up with new ideas, while making them work, and coming back to make them better at being efficient. That takes time.

In my opinion, Visionary Leadership is why ROM, and AND worked so well, and why C2C follows and improves on that tradition. C2C is certainly becoming more successful because it organizes that leadership behind multiple strong leaders and still listens/involves it's community. New modders are fostered and encouraged, and teamwork, and delegation are starting to accomplish more things. It can get even better, even surprisingly so.

The goal is to make the best game possible,
and with Multi-Maps and bringing in new people, more is possible that what the negative people imply. I have much success in seeing and making these things happen. I study it, I have a degree in Business Administration, and I have found quite exceptional success working alone and in notable groups. I also study group dynamics, population modeling, non-linear math, group psychology, politics, viral marketing, and visionary accomplishment. I understand how to minimize groupthink and limit authoritarian 1 person king-of-the-hill domination, both the worst extremes of destructive tyranny. But let us not fall to the tyranny of apathy, of lack of vision, or of negativity.
I am a natural problem solver, a programmer and an engineer. I study how to make games interesting ,fun, successful, and possible. I have evidence I have gravitated towards this type of visionary simulation game my whole aware life. I see what it can be if people believe that they can pursue it. I know that we can do far more than we think is easy or possible, creative organization can solve so many problems. I believe we can work together to reach this goal. It all comes down to positive cooperation, creative organization, and expanding vision. I support making this happen, do you?

In most ways C2C is this project.
They are certainly capable of pulling this off, but the goal of making the best Civ is everyone's project. C2C certainly invites people to join. I am part of their Community and I support them in every way.

But my goal is simply to help make the best CIV Game possible.
And to encourage people to talk and be positive about to get here.
and to do that we need to talk about what C2C is and isn't to engage the best modders and the whole Community.

I only suggest we start with C2C because it is going in the right direction.
I certainly do not exclude it from considering any other mod as a good foundation, and I don't think it is wise to ignore what it has to offer.

We could just as easily start with AND , Rocks2Rockets, and/or the K-MOD.
Probably a merge of the 3 is a good and possibly best start for a foundation.

We should also talk about what we could do if we started from scratch. For the sake of the ideas, not making the other things obsolete. We are not here to throw away other efforts, ideas or mods. We are here to improve upon them.

 

[rightfuture]

My proposal is to work towards:
1. The best Dream Goal: Unity behind the idea of having the best vision for a civ mod - Unite and bridge the community behind the idea of pursuing the best of the best together, so that we can see the Ultimate 'ONE' Mod, however that can be. We all have to believe it is possible and work towards that. Simply focus on the goal of having the best, and improving on it together. So that we can play the best game, the best mod, and the best vision possible, together.
2. The best Dream Plan: Start with the best the best so we don't have to start from scratch. So that we involve the best of the other mod communities and modders for a collective vision. We can bridge the ideas of a from scratch vision, and what already exists. I am sure it can be done. Use the best mods, the best ideas, and the best ideal plan, and bring it together. It just takes will and time.
3. The best Dream Team: Have the leadership come from the best of the best modders across all the good mods. Then don't need to abandon their favorite mods, just bridge ideas with them, for the desire of working on something together that pushes the limits of modding and what can be created. You have to want to see that happen.
Anything is possible if we try and make steps towards it. We can get on the same page aiming for the best without succumbing(giving in) to the least common denominator of what makes everyone the most happy. We want the best game with the best of what we can do together.
4. As a team.
None of that is meant to replace, or destroy, or challenge your favorites pursuits or ideas. It is just make the collective pursuit of the best and the improved, come to life and to give the entire community a reason to come together for the purpose of seeing it ultimately happen. To discover what we can do to ambitiously reach the next level in a positive way for everyone. Like AND and ROM showed, and C2C is now showing, we can find a way. Let's see what we can accomplish.
I believe that we all want to play that game, and that is why I ask for your ideas. Mine are just a place to start.

I only start with C2C and the core shared ideas behind CIV, ROM, AND, K-MOD, and C2C/Rocks2ROCKETS because that is the vision rests across.
Merging and streamlining these ideas is what they are each doing. So why not start with them?

We also should discuss the ideal mod, and what CIV could be, or what people wanted in Civ 1,2,3,4,5, and 6. as well as in all of these mods, and what other games like SimCity, SimEarth, Neverwinter Nights, and Spore are.
This helps us work with what has already been done, and what we are free to dream up, and then we can bring those things together as best we can, as a team with common ground CIV, and a common vision, Improvement.
This is my vision, and to some degree the vision generally agreed across many of these mods.
Why not work together to see it happen? Why not figure out the best of what can be?
It is up to you to help breathe life into it by talking it into reality.
The desire to see and play it, and the will to want it to become real, is what can get us there.
We have to start by speaking up and adding our opinion.
We CAN help make the best CIV possible.
We want to explore that best game and we want to know we had a part in seeing it happen.
This is our chance, our moment, because who knows where else we could stand together to create.
We are united in our love for CIV, and we want to see the next one done right!
Support the vision, add your voice, speak up!