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[BNW] Community Deity Game #25 - Arabia

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by beetle, Jan 15, 2018.

  1. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    These UUs are just so dominant and so fast! I suggest reading through the DCL Arabia game, or specific guides if you prefer, and getting to Chivalry ASAP!
    Link to DCL thread:
    https://forums.civfanatics.com/threads/the-deity-challenge-line-up-24-arabian-nights.545032/

    Spoiler Click the 'Spoiler' button to see more words :

    I replayed the start a bunch of times to see how quickly I could get to Chivalry (T90). I used my notes in the DCL thread as a general guide, but with a few notable changes:
    *did not research Philosophy, and therefore didn't build NC or Oracle. I think we had a lot more horses nearby in this map which encourages early production going into Chariot Archers. I had 14 ready to upgrade by T90, including 1-2 bought with gold and 1-2 bought with faith
    *built settler instead of buying with gold. I reached 500 gold earlier in the DCL, though I think I prefer just building - it was only 5 turns
    *got 2 caravans (for science) out very quickly. 1st caravan went to Persia, who I knew would be my first target (their 4 horse city); 2nd caravan went to Morocco, as did the 1st caravan after it finished it's initial run. One caravan became a food caravan to a low-pop captured city, while the other was lost when I DoW'd Morocco, just after T90.
    *instead of getting any Honor policies as I did in the DCL, the only policies after Liberty went into Commerce, reaching Mercantilism

    Capital captures and sweep order
    T8x Persia. This became my 'West' army, with 7 Camel Archers. The other 7 Camel Archers former the 'East' army that hit Morocco, Babylon, and the Ottomans; they didn't make it to Egypt in time to attack any cities.
    T97 Morocco - this was the only city of theirs I had to take
    West army razed 2 more Persian cities, then
    T104 Constantinople - this was the only city of theirs I had to take
    T110 Babylon - had to take out 1 expo first
    *Assyria asked me to DoW Egypt as I was moving my West army towards Assur; I agreed to, in 10 turns. Assyria started attacking 1-2 turns early, which worked out perfectly as they moved troops away from Assur and I didn't actually DoW Egypt (yet)
    T120 Assur - only Assyrian city I attacked
    *once they setted down, I bought a Longswordsman almost every turn until the end of the game
    T127 Istanbul - razed 1 expo on the way; attacked 2, but didn't bother taking Bursa. A horseman would have helped speed this up; worth considering using the first 14 horses as 2 armies of 6 Camel Archers and 1 Horseman
    T136 Thebes - Memphis took a little while, then 2 GG citadels and no need to worry about losing units in the final battle

    Religion was Desert Folkore, Tithe, & Holy Warriors
    Near the end of the game, when units from my capital wouldn't have had any impact, I forgot about faith long enough to accidentally product a GP, so I did enhance but it was meaningless.

    Tech: at the end, I was 2 turns from finishing Gunpowder, at which point I would have put all my gold into Musketmen. Did not tech Machinery (1 comp bow from scout upgrade) or Philosophy. I did get Optics.

    Arabia T136 DomV.jpg

     
    vadalaz likes this.
  2. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    That is impressive, what social policies did you use? I assume liberty with GS as finisher.
     
  3. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    Straightforward Liberty, then Commerce to Merc. The Commerce policies didn't have much impact; I think putting the 7th and 8th policies into Honour, with the main purpose being to get 1-2 more GG to citadel, would be a good move. I controlled city growth to make sure I never hit -10 happiness; as you can see in screenshot, I was actually +12 at the end.

    Off-topic: if anyone is interested in a separate thread on DomV strategy with Arabia, let me know and I'll start one. I did a quick trial run at a HoF eligible game and reached Chivalry at T89 - 1 turn faster without replays!. GPP map is great for this, which has me thinking T130 DomV (Deity, standard) may be doable for Arabia.
     
  4. vadalaz

    vadalaz King

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    I think it's a good idea to start a thread about fast DomV, the fast SV one has been very interesting!

    I'd wager sub-120 is doable as Arabia. Manpanzee used to clear island maps in 30 turns on Deity with Galleasses, surely a Camel rush can go about as fast? Of course, you have a lot more units to chew through with land conquest, while Galleasses just swim to a capital (at 5 movement pts with Exploration and GLH) and take it without much resistance. On the other hand, you get a head start with chariots and an upgrade is only 135 gold vs 400 to rush-buy a Galleass, plus some of the land maps are very small, especially Lakes and GP.
     
  5. claudiupb

    claudiupb King

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    If you want fast DomV then there is no way that the Huns can be beaten, unless you want to do it only for Arabia.
     
  6. KingVercingetorix

    KingVercingetorix Chieftain

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    Domination Victory Turn 271 (Slow but comfortable)

    Spoiler :

    After a little time off playing the game I saw this thread and wanted to get involved. Before my winning attempt at this map I did fail my first go. My first attempt was an Honour play through. It went reasonably well. I was able to take Persia's capital with Chariots and Byzantium's and Assyria's with Camels by turn 150 ish. I did however lose too many units in those wars. I felt weak militarily and decided I'd play a Liberty play through. Hoping to make good use of the Liberty finisher by bulbing a fairly fast Chivalry with a GS. Map knowledge also meant I knew some decent spots for settling locations.

    I settled the Gems on turn two. The extra economy in the early game is very nice. Also that boost to happiness early on is great. Getting a natural Golden Age before Representation is always welcome. I settled three expos in this game as there were some good spots and enough space to do so comfortably. My early game went well. I got some great ruins (Culture/Bronze Working) and was able to steal four workers. Three from Persia and one from Morocco. Getting BW early boosted my economy really well and meant I could buy a Library in an expo. I did make an error in my early game buy making peace with Persia. By doing this he was able to forward settle me and make my job harder when war broke out properly.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_24_01_37_22_863.png
    Over 1000 gold in the bank and eight Chariots to upgrade. My first attempt at a Chivalry rush was with Mongolia and I managed turn 105. Here I was able to shave off seven turns. Turn 84 four city NC for extra bulb potential. I did complete Liberty rather quickly in this game and I was wondering if an academy would have been better than bulbing. Assyria had already completely wiped out Egypt in this game early on!

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_24_02_51_06_436.png
    One capital down, six to go. Me allowing Persia to settle Susa slowed me down a little bit. Pasargadae had Petra and horses so I didn't raze it. I also took Ecbatana and razed it. Got some extra XP for my Camels. Morocco's religion helping with happiness. Mosques and Cathedrals also boosted my culture!

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_25_01_45_03_807.png
    Defender of The Faith did help Morocco out a little bit though. He put up a good fight and didn't allow for a Blitzkrieg like Persia. Turn 133 and two capitals down and five to go.

    At this point I felt my army wasn't big enough to take on Babylon. I made the mistake of building too much infrastructure and not enough units. I decided I would wait until Dynamite to take on Babylon while making money and keeping the other civs happy.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_25_16_00_22_640.png
    Over 6k saved up and loads of units needing upgrading. 8 Camels, 7 Cannons, and 4 Pikeman. After Morocco being wiped out Babylon was able to spread their religion to my eastern cities. He had Holy Warriors so I was able to faith purchase a couple of Cannons. I took a detour to Navigation before researching Dynamite as I was planning a naval assault on Byzantium (it failed but more on that later). Babylon had nearly double my score at this point and was looking very powerful. Artillery and Cavalry are just unstoppable at this point in the game however.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_26_17_06_04_245.png
    Closed the gap score wise. I bet he regrets saying " Your army is so weak, it is surprising that your empire hasn't succumb to a barbarian invasion". Getting through his cities was very time consuming. Especially Akkad. Those south western hills were slow going. Three capitals down four to go.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_26_23_00_12_556.png
    Awkward capital to get to. I had to swim most of my Artillery and Cavalry to the borders of Nicaea. I was able to fit some in the small area west and south west of Tarsus. My navy? It got absolutely decimated by Byzantium's air force. Just a few GWBs and Privateers destroyed my seven Frigate navy with ease. Four capitals down three to go.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_27_17_13_35_483.png
    By far the easiest capital yet. The Ottoman's just didn't offer any resistance. I had declared war on turn 248 and the city was mine on 251. Also another civ completely wiped out. Five capitals down and just Assur and Thebes left. The final war against Assyria had already commenced at this point. Despite their tech lead I was winning the war. Tarsus has been liberated and a few Assyrian cities have been puppeted/razed.

    Assur fell on turn 263. Four tuns after taking Assur I had discovered Rocketry and my Rocket Artillery army were ready for the final assault on Memphis and Thebes.

    CivilizationV_DX11_2018_01_28_01_37_03_639.png
    VICTORY! Istanbul was easy but Thebes so just so simple. Rocket Artillery packs so much firepower. Being able to move and shoot makes it simply fantastic.

    This game highlights how entry level and amateur Deity players can win a domination victory. I took two capitals with my UU and turtled until game changing Artillery. Getting through the mass of cities is where some players will really find it challenging. I'd say it's a 60/40 split between ease and struggle. There were times where Babylon/Assyria were spamming units and really slowing me down. Hitting key techs first such as Radar and Rocketry is the important part. Great War Infantry against Infantry isn't a big deal with decent air support in the name of Bombers.

    Social Policies
    Full Liberty
    Full Commerce
    Consulates
    Mobilisation-Elite Forces-Total War-Fortified Borders-Nationalism-Clausewitz's Legacy-Universal Healthcare-Militarism

    Wonders I Built
    Oracle
    Machu Picchu
    Forbidden Palace
    Big Ben
    Prora
    Neuschwanstein

    The Mercantilism, Big Ben, and Mobilisation combo worked wonders. Being able to spam Bombers (loads of oil) so cheaply provided me with the winning edge. Forbidden Palace, Prora, and Protectionism helped keep happiness up. I seldom went into negative happiness in this game. Puppeting all those Assyrian cities towards the end is what brought it down. Clausewitz's Legacy would have negated any unhappiness penalty during war when it did drop.

    Thanks for the map Beetle. I found it very enjoyable while also rather challenging. This was my first time playing as Arabia and they're very impressive. I was also happy to be below turn 272. Blatc managed a 136 so I was just under twice as slow. Looking forward for CDG #26. Have you decided a civ to use already or can we cast a vote?
     
  7. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am still trying to get late-game DV off this map. Really, I should probably start from scratch. Settle the gems, and run Liberty.
    I have a Polynesia map ready to share. I could get a CV off it, so it must be on the easier side of things. Sure, please say what you are looking for! See OP for the list of civs already played in this series, as well as the link to the nominal discussion thread for the CDG.
     
  8. KingVercingetorix

    KingVercingetorix Chieftain

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    A Polynesia culture game sounds great. I've never played a full game as Polynesia so it will be exciting to see how their UA and UI helps achieve victory. Do you still remember how you achieved victory? It is always fun reading write ups.

    For a future CDG I was thinking Korea could be interesting. I've always wanted to try a wide science victory with them.
     
  9. Blatc

    Blatc Prince

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    beetle, I'd be happy if you, or someone else kind enough to roll maps for the community, chose to offer a civ that was previously used in the CDG. If it's a fun, interesting, and/or challenging map, the fact some of us may have played a game with that civ say 12 months ago doesn't really matter to me. I appreciate your efforts; Polynesia culture sounds fun.
     
  10. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Polynesia game is posted.

    Replies to two posts above in the CDG Series Discussion Thread. Which, I will confess, is pretty arbitrary on my part.
     
    Last edited: Jan 29, 2018
  11. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    I came, I saw & I screwed it up, quickly.

    Actually, the first 7 turns were fine but it's been downhill since. Settled by the river, got an upgrade from the 1st, pop from the 2nd ruin and a worker from Darius so things were looking fine but next ruins gave just maps - sure I was lost in general but I didn't think I was that bad. By T50 I managed to barely settle my 2nd near Cotton, the early expansion with Liberty without a culture ruin is just slooow. No CSs in sight so I checked the settings but didn't see anything related so I let it pass without recruiting a 2nd brain cell to wonder why. After 3rd city on the seaside, 4th up North by more salt and 5th around T70 to block Babylon's ICSing. T62 Desert Folklore which seemed more than odd in respect to Moroccoan start the he went Piety and chose hammers from fishing boats - weird are the ways of an AI.
    Luckily Nebby DoWed Ahmed and I managed to snatch Marrakech from with a Horseman, ChaArc & Scout. Meanwhile my miniscule ChArc Army was getting pot shots against Darius while dodging Pikemen - an unhealthy hobby if it fails but I managed to get one city from him which I sold to Nebby and this accompanied by Caravan Nebby offered DoF which I gladly took - I needed that as a bank.

    After it was teching for CS and then Chivalry. Liberty finisher was a GE which was used for 6C NC on T102 as I forgot to research Philosophy beforehands so I had to make a 4 turn detour. I also tried bribe peeps to start wars but Assyria was the only one willing check if the grass was indeed greener on the other side and by time I met Egypt he had already taken few cities. The wars against Persia or Theo weren't going anywhere. Around T100 my brave rowboat also found few CSs but the quests were not helpful.
    Religion I passed in hope of getting Morrocoan religion eventually for Pagodas the core problem being my pantheon - I could either have it giving faith or cities with a religion but no means of getting faith; well life sucks occasionally.

    T106 Assyria was 1st to Rennaissance, T108 Chivalry but instead of a proper army I had 8 ChArcs to upgrade and 4 prebuild to 1-turn-short & few Pikes. First target T114 had to be Assyria but with a GW & Cover II Musketmen made it painful as none of CAs had even 3rd promotion. Another hickup came when I captured 1st city from him but couldn't raze it so I sold it to Nebby, too who was finally busy testing his new weapons against the Ottomans to my eternal gratefulness. Two satellites had to go before I took Assyr T127 by which time Egypt had also lost its capital so the war continued.
    T138 DoWed Theo with my epic handkerchief of doom on her border - 4CAs, Horseman & Pikeman but it was quite enough as I only killed half a dozen troops before taking Constantinople T148. Meanwhile I also reached Thebes T140 and after liberating 3 Egyptian cities Ramesses wanted to be my bff which should give me a trading partner for the rest of the if he manages to get cash somewhere.

    Against all odds Darius also offered DoF which I took. DoWed Nebby T146 and T148 proposed embargo on Babs which was the only proposition to please more than two nations. Prolly nothing will come out of WC as I'm taking a break in hope of figuring out how to take Istanbul on later date - it doesn't seem to in optimal position against large navy while having only two Triremes of my own. Darius should be too much of a problem but there's still some 15 turns of DoF and plowing through Babylonia will surely take longer than that.

    ----- edit.------

    Classic case of one-more-turn but luckily the end game was decently quick and ended in T173 Dom.

    ---- edit #2 -----

    After liberating a Moroccoan city and taking Akkad twice to minimize the unhappines effect Babylon fell T158 with relative ease as by this time I had half dozen CAs with logistics & range. After that few more cities to get access to Ottoman border and sea. The latter part failed slightly as I only managed to buy 3 Frigates to sail the open seas. The Privateer I bought got harbour bound by the Babylonian border expansion and I didn't bother bringing a GG back to bomb me a sea route so I was stuck with melee units for capping.
    The war against the Ottomans was actually easy as I had enough cannonfodders to spare. Konya, the gatekeeper city, was hardest with only 2 tiles open for shooting. After capping I gave the city to Ahmed to keep the path onwards clear without having to kill too many sea units - the obvious downside being inability to GG bomb my way to the 2nd to last city. Promoted CA targeting the city while the rest mainly offering easy targets Istanbul fell T173.

    I DoWed Darius the same turn as the Ottomans but I cleared two expansion cities first to cap the capitals on the same turn. Darius offered no real obstacle and no one even denounced me after breaking our DoF which was odd.

    On hindsight I could've build more units in the beginning but I wasn't too optimistic about getting any more cities so instead I did some empire building. I had Aqueducts, Workshops, Guilds etc and due to lack of stuff to build I even got LToP on the last turn.
    The lack of playing lately makes everything much more reactionary than I'd like to as planning some 20 turns ahead seems enough. In the later game it really showed in lack of roads by the Ottoman border - prebuilding roads on hills near Konya would've made the trip from Babylon to Istanbul several turns faster. Another similar thing happened with Assyria but the AI was exceptionally bad in this game which eased the way even with crappy play.

    Due to severe lack of culture only Liberty and 4 points on Honor - fast xp is always nice and a Scout in every city helps to combat the happiness issues. Religion gave me 4 Pagodas & 3 Cathedrals.
    I have no idea what the AI was doing apart from Assyria going Honor & beating Egypt and Babs ICSing early on - they were the leader in pretty much everything. Theo & Suleiman started in crappy positions and despite having all the CSs they didn't get anything going.

    Fun game all in all apart from few bugs but those are hardly a novelty. I don't much care for Pangaea but this time I had issues with the CS locations. Had I known it in advance it might've been different but as long as I have horses with Harun it's fine.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    LOL, thought I would try a Liberty run, settling the Gem...

    Settler got nabbed by a brute T002.
     
  13. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Gratz & thx for the entertainment - right now I'm glad I don't settle on luxes ;)


    I also added few words about the last turns in the previous post.
     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2018
  14. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am not generally a fan of settling on lux, but with this map that also picks up two horse tiles for the cap. Liberty GS for Chivalry is also key.

    I restarted, moving the Warrior, and there was no barb camp in that spot. My game is going much better. I wiped out Darius on turn T95 with Chariot Archers. I did not get Camel Archers until T125, as policies where just too slow. I should have considered building Oracle.

    I will still get to Ideologies, but this looks like it will be my fastest dom run, by quite a large margin. I do not think I have won DV before reaching the Information Age.
     
    Last edited: Feb 7, 2018
  15. penguin74

    penguin74 Chieftain

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    Turn 263 rage quit.

    Spoiler :
    3rd try after 2 poor attempts. Moved to the gems and settled there after initially settling the hill next to the mountain. 4 city liberty. Chariot archers took Persia turns 93, got Chivalry about 115 or so with the great scientist and went for Carthage which fell in about 10 turns. Ashurbanipal tried to hit me while the camels were away, but they move so fast they got back in plenty of time. Unfortunately, no matter how many troops I killed, he always had more and I didn't take his capital til after turn 200. By then I had 8-9 camels left with range and logistics and march on many, so thought I could hit Morocco pretty easily as that capital is in prime position for camels. I was struggling with happiness the whole time and had no idea how to fix it. Happiness buildings were in all cities, had every luxury I could. Had I think 7 C/S allies and had bought faith buildings in every city I could, depending on which religions had spread.
    Problem came after I DOW'd Morocco. The Berber Cavalry were everywhere. The camels could never get in position to hit and run, so after a while I ended up promoting the ones still alive into cavalry for survivability. I had artillery, but they also couldn't get into position without being 1 shot, or at least so wounded I had to pull back. Then the great bombers came and wreaked all sorts of havoc. I had forgotten to get flight so took a beating until getting fighters and anti-aircraft. They never made any headway, but we were sort of in a stalemate where I couldn't advance, likely until landships. When a rogue berber that was near my capital pillaged a road, I was suddenly at about -20 happiness and -93 GPT. I probably could have still recovered and won, but it would have been long, so called it a day and decided to try again. Will prioritize Morocco this time to get to him before he can get those Berbers up. I'll leave Carthage for ships I think.


    Major props to anyone who beat this easily. I'm jealous
     
  16. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    This is interesting read as in general peeps seem to have taken Persia's capital with ChArcs regardless of the path afterwards - I wasn't even close to getting there. For happiness part after I finally found some CSs I gave every Gold I had to 2 Mercantiles and didn't really have any happiness issues after that. Few turns on negative while razing but not serious probs. Allowing Babs retake 2 of their cities for a turn saved me from the worst.
    Giving a useless city for free is always an instant option to avoid happiness issues - even better if trigger happy Attila is in the game as he continues razing the cities ~90% of the time so it won't stay as a physical obstacle for long.
     
  17. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    In my first play (the worst of several tries) I went after Morocco before Persia, since Chariot Archers versus Immortals seemed like a very bad idea. In my subsequent plays, I took him on first. The land is nice and flat, but all the rivers can be used to break his movement. So your units have all the maneuverability they need, and his units stop right where you need them to end up as target practice.
     

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