[BNW] Community Deity Game #30 - Songhai

[Grendeldef]

The map is probably very/fairly easy so there're some bonus incentives in form of achievements like we used to have back in the days to gently guide players to a certain direction. Feel free to ignore these but the map is cooked to have fun with wide play - more under the map spoilers. The achis are inline with wide Domination with religious twist but all VCs are enabled as removing those will screw up the AI.
Due to excessive land mass the game will probably be a bit longer than on average.

Spoiler for opening screen shot :

Spoiler The Lite version :

- Civs sharing continent will start with only one Settler
- Civs starting somewhere else will start without Workers
- Player has extra units - Archer, Spearman & 2 Scouts
- some additional money, faith & culture
- easy access to multiple early Workers. The rainbow of nearby workers represent all the civs sharing the continent
- recommended Pantheons
* One with Nature
* Tears of the Gods

Spoiler Optional Achievements :

1) Expansionist.

Found cities before building the NC

5 = 1 pt
6 = 2 pts
7 = 3 pts
8 = 4 pts
9(+) = 6 pts


2) Religious Zealot. Remove Holy City status from others

1 = 1 pt
2 = 2 pts
3 = 4 pts
4 = 6 pts


3) Push back. Kill off major civs

1 = 1 pt
2 = 3 pts
3(+) = 6 pts


4) Take cities with Mandekalu Cavalry before Industrial Era

First city per civ = 1 pt
additional cities 0,5 pt each

max 6 pts


5) Spread your founded religion to CSs

3 = 1 pt
5 = 2 pts
6 = 3 pts
7 = 4 pts
8 = 6 pts

Please see the CDG Series Discussion Thread to express yourself if you have remarks and ideas. Some maps in the series use mods. This map uses the DLC map packs, so you will need “Explorers Map Pack”, “Scrambled Nations”, and “Scrambled Continents”, as well as the earlier (and more common) DLC such as “Wonders of the Ancient World”.

Please provide a screenshot of your victory turn. We also very much encourages pictures and stories related to the achievements and keys point in the game – because it’s fun to read for all of us! Restart or reload as you like, but in your write-up (which does not have to be long) please describe the challenges you faced.

We welcome all comments and questions, but please use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about which civs are in the game, about natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc. In short, if it’s information you can only know by playing the game, don’t spoil it for others by divulging this information in the open. Thank you for your cooperation, and have fun!

Before you download and play the map, please take a moment to speculate here in this thread on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA and UU? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

Spoiler for map type and settings :

Terra Incognita, std 8/16, low sea lvl with some additional continental land and properly habitable islands some of which will require Astronomy to reach.
There're gazillion NWs present so when you'll find the 1st pay attention to how many are left.
AI starting areas will have Iron & Horses somewhere, Coal & Aluminium nodes have been added so everyone has a reasonable access to those. There're also several added lux nodes around the world and those spread out to make monopolies hard to come by.
Hefty number of Ruins have been added so exploration should be more prosperous.
Blocking ice has been removed everywhere and almost all continental tiles have 2 coastal tiles so the usefulness of pre-Astronomy naval units is increased.

*** a bit of a warning ***

While the player's general area has been boosted quite a lot the same is true for all the AIs to a lesser degree (or rather they'll benefit less from it) which could lead to runaway civ(s) on the other continent if they decide start a hugfest so pay attention to the demographics to avoid surprises while starting a genocide with Frigates against Missile Cruisers.

Spoiler Opponents :

Bunch of those Europeans who have invaded Africa over the years - England, France, Germany, The Netherlands, Portugal, Spain & the renegade Carthage

Spoiler for links to previous threads in CDG series :

CDG1: Persia, Oct. 31st, 2015, domination, Pangea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG2: Assyria, Nov. 15th, 2015, science, Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient
CDG3: Ethiopia, Dec. 2nd, 2015, culture, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by Consentient
CDG4: Spain, Dec. 17th, 2015, domination, NQ Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG5: Indonesia, Jan. 2nd, 2016, culture, NQ Continents, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG6: Zulus, Jan. 15th, 2016, domination, Oval, easy, map by Consentient.
CDG7: Shoshone, Feb. 2nd, 2016, culture, Oval, very easy, map by Enslingkorp.
CDG8: Austria, Feb. 15th, 2016, science, Pangaea, very easy, map by IronfighterXXX.
CDG9: Brazil, Feb. 28th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Blatc.
CDG10: Denmark, March 14th, 2016, domination, Lakes, hard, map by Beetle.
CDG11: Venice, April 1st, 2016, domination, Archipelago, very easy, map by Wild_Woojsha.
CDG12: Byzantium, April 15th, 2016, domination, Continents, very hard, map by Beetle.
CDG13: Inca, April 30th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Shark Diver.
CDG14: Celts, May 18th, 2015, domination or culture, Oval, hard, map by Consentient.
CDG15: America, May 30th, 2016, diplomacy, Mesopotamia, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG16: Sweden, June 14th, 2016, domination or diplomacy, HB Continents, medium, map by Consentient.
CDG17: Germany, July 2nd, 2016, diplomacy, Pangaea, easy, map by Dan Quayle.
CDG18: France, July 14rd, 2016, diplomacy, HB Continents, hard, map by MaxAttack.
CDG19: Ottomans, Aug. 5th, 2016, domination, Continents, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG20: Portugal, Aug. 20th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by Beetle.
CDG21: China, Sept. 9th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by @Dan Quayle.
CDG22: Maya, Oct. 2nd, 2016, domination or science, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by @consentient.
CDG23: Iroquois, Oct. 15th, 2016, domination or culture, NQ Oval, very hard, map by @consentient.
CDG24: Babylon, Nov. 11th, 2016, science, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG25: Arabia, Jan. 15th, 2018, domination, Pangea Plus, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG26: Polynesia, Jan. 29th, 2018, culture, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
CDG27: Poland, Feb. 18th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
CDG28: Huns, March 4h, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, hard, map by @Grendeldef.

 

[raider980]

Now that's what I'm talking about for lite! I might be able to get past T150 with this one.

 

[Grendeldef]

Goodie.

I also made an addition in the OP regarding the Lite version to avoid accidental world wars..

 

[beetle]

Nice! Thanks @Grendeldef. Looks like a map that I will have to play multiple times, so I very much appreciate that! My first attempt will be to make Liberty work, and pick up as many as of the achievement point that I can.

T0 Warrior to Diamond hill, but unless I see a NW or coast, settler will be moving SE to get the mountain in ring 1 or 2. That means not settling until T2, so wish me luck!

EDIT: Hill due south looks odd to me. Anyone else think so?

 

[Grendeldef]

It's a lol-map based on the 30ish turns I played last night but I had few map ruins to help scouting and there're a number of perks that weren't in the original roll but surely suitable as an entry lvl Liberty map or something to have fun with like some Spain maps are. I wish had more time yesterday but I finished the 8x1 Attila map first but hopefully later today I'll start fulfilling the achis.

Spoiler :

I settled one tile NW (I think) - the riverside hill anyway and DoWed William ~t15 for a worker. Other than that it was just spotting NWs and picking up ruins with obviously starting with Liberty and depending on how it goes I might go deep into Piety later as I'll try to do some achis as well.

 

[raider980]

I'll move warrior to Gems too. With 2f3g I don't think that's Gems Hill though? So we can probably move through it. And the southern hill does look strange, maybe Tundra; or just the lighting. With only one lux in sight I'm a little worried. I think I'll end up settling on the Gems regardless.

 

[beetle]

With 2f3g I don't think that's Gems Hill though?

Good catch! But that is because it is jungle on the hill, so no, you cannot move through it. Also, the bright blue trail is not river (like I though) but is showing movement range instead. I did SIP because I am not willing to give up the river for a mountain.

 

[Grendeldef]

Yup, it's Gems on a jungle hill and I decided to go the other way.

T83 and just finished Liberty

Spoiler :

T14 DoW with William for workers but I only managed to steal 3 as he got also attacked by Dido so he didn't have any. I also made peace relatively soon as I needed a target for Caravan. Dido offered DoF in late 30s which took but she has been unwilling to DoW Spain which went Piety so I need to screw her up quickly. Bism was displeased my 5th city and I doubt the next 3 made him any happier but discount horses and a Caravan made him neutral and a lux + 9gpt was then enough to attack William who is now my friend. I hope Will keeps him busy until I get Pikes at some point.

5 turns until the last Library is finished so I'm building Oracle meanwhile and soon the KSM city will be outproducing the capital whick is only 7 pop.
OwN and 4th religion as Tithe and Pagodas so that's as long as Isabella doesn't start Missionary spamming.
Most WWs are being built far away and Nappy took a capital T82 so he might be a threat later on. On my continent I'm doing decently as long as Germans stay on their side of the border.

No serious happiness issues so far but I've traded luxes instead of selling and dumped cash to Singapore to keep it allied.

GE for NC in five turns, then tech to CS around T100 and start building an army hopefully to attack Spain with XB as don't want a nearby Holy City any longer than I have to.
The downside of going properly wide was that there really wasn't enough hammers to build army capable of taking a capital so I went peacefully.

 

[Grendeldef]

No major upsets @151 but few interesting things so far.

Spoiler :

Had to DoW Spain right after NC without comtemporary units because the Missio spam started too bad my lazy CS allies didn't participate at all so the war was going nowhere for 30 turn after which I had pillaged all her horses and life became tolerable and took Madrid T151 for a point.

Meanwhile Germany wiped Will off the map but after offered DoF which I took out of fear and for his cash pile. He's also leading demographics in every relevant category. Dido is also still my friend but has been broke for most of the time like William was. Took 3 luxes to get her to DoW Isa but I hope it was worth just stop the religious conversion but it was a bit too late.

Nappy is the tech lead and has Lisbon and Lizzy apparently started disliking me on T2 but I've barely met them at this point. Also few CS are still hiding somewhere. WC started few turns ago.

T120 Education but no money to buy any Unis and JE was taken before me so I opened Ratio instead of finishing Piety.
I was supposed to build Boro but with eyes crossed accidentally built GMoD instead which is still better than missing HS and GLH by two turns. Others like LToP went before I even tried. Now the question whether to go for Industrial or to postpone it for points.

Some observations

- no proper expansion on my continent by AI even though tons of room and luxes available
- relentless war between Will & Dido - over 100 turns till his death
- deadly barbs as they had time enough to build troops - I've lost 3 Triremes and few other troops while trying to get the island ruin
- AI just doesn't improve tiles like it should
- withouth Pagodas and healthy ftp my game would've been quite a lot harder so far

 

[raider980]

I'm really liking this game so far. On T162. I'm playing the lite version of course.

Spoiler :

I stole two of the initial four workers, figured what the heck. Germany's and Spain's because they tend to be pains in the butt anyway. Settled one tile NW on the hill because figured I may need the range if anyone came a knocking, they haven't yet.

When I saw all that sweet sweet land I went Liberty. Dido asked me to DoW William very early, when I still had archers. I almost did it but didn't really have an army and wanted to concentrate on expanding. However, Civ 5 way overpunishes expansion (worst thing about the game) so I couldn't manage it as fast as I had hoped.

Settled my second city very early, like T20somthing. And had 4 cities up to get my earliest NC ever maybe; T80. Then settled my next 4 cities fairly quickly. I was going to try and attack William with XB but I had other things to do. I even settled a late city on the island by GBR.

One of the funniest things ever happened: Dido tried to send a settler past my cities to get to my sweet land to the east but there were only two routes she could get there - each only 1 or 2 hexes wide. So I parked a unit in the southern one and she'd then turn north. I'd move my southern unit out of the way and she'd come back so I'd block it again and she'd turn around. Back and forth she went. This went on for like 100 turns.

On T162 now and just met the rest of the world.

 

[Grendeldef]

Gz for passing the T150 mark with flying colours but after seeing that pic a question immediately pops itself - where are the units? Also, the answer will probably give some light to what to me seems like insufficient exploring. Though I have to find a save if possible from that era to have some reference point.
I got myself yesterday to ~T185 and the WF is going on and I'm having way too many interesting distractions to be effective on anything but the map is forgiving if nothing else.

Also I got curious how fast a sci VC could be achieved here if that was the focus. Not the best map for that but at least decent.

So @Blatc, wanna rejoin the CDG party and give it a go?

Shameless advertising ftw and that sort of things...

 

[Grendeldef]

Nope, not appropriate save but I did have this SS from few turns later which I thought was partly funny but mainly a sad indication of the lack of intelligence of AI. My units are far away sieging Spain but the difference in explored area is quite significant.

Spoiler :

Another thing that caught my eye on a larger screen was the surprise when I noticed that you haven't bought KSM nor GBR tiles - why on earth not especially when you're rolling in cash?. That's especially weird if you have OwN pantheon but either way KSM should be on the shopping list right after settling as the game is exceptionally good avoiding NWs with its natural border expansion.

 

[raider980]

where are the units? Also, the answer will probably give some light to what to me seems like insufficient exploring

Well, I was going to attack with CB but then I didn't get them in time. Then I was going to attack with XB but had other things to do and everyone was being friendly. So I was then going to attack with Artillery because of the missionary/GP spam from you know who. I'm not going for Domination but I did want to attack at some point.

Spoiler :

But then just as I got Artillery, Bismark and William joint DoW me. I was able to fight them off. I was going to try and take Cologne but then Bismark got GWB. Luckily he made peace even though he could've torn me up. Now its T244 and Liz and Isabella just joint DoW me. I should be able to handle them.

As for exploring, yeah I always forget about getting the Caravel tech and so the far away continent stays unexplored. At T244 I have met everyone but the continent is still unexplored.

Also yeah, I forgot about KSM but didn't buy GBR because there were better tiles to work, my city was only 1 or 2.

And all those things are reasons why I'm not good at Deity. The player can get away with playing loose at Immortal but not Deity.

 

[Grendeldef]

I prolly sounded more combative than I meant to but I was referring to units in broader sense than just as an attacking army - Scouts running around the world, military units controlling the barb spawn points, naval units exploring, securing trade routes and so forth. Especially with a map like this there's quite a lot to do other than making war. The difference in happiness between the two SSs is ~6 just due to finding the NWs.

Also you can start a war just to kill off the Missionaries as the AI doesn't necessarily come knocking at your doorsteps - few horse units to pillage Caravans & stop Missio spam is well worth the investment and if they come defensive war is much easier XP gathering.

MIssing KSM is unfortunate but it happens. Missing GBR as you said is more of a discretionary call but if you have OwN buying at least one GBR is worthy. If you were hard building first Monument and Granary later it'd give much better yield for ~20 turns. After finishing Granary run the 2 Wheat tiles and 3rd & 4th pop back to GBR. Hardly a game changer either way.

 

[beetle]

I went too wide (10 cites before NC) my first play, and felt very behind in Science (partially due to negative gpt) and very unhappy, late to Ideology, and a very poor religion. (I was messing around with CS-oriented religious buffs. I never have been able to make those work.)

I reloaded to give up a couple expos, make more conventional choices for religion, and I had a much better game. Science still seemed slower than I expected, and I was fourth to Ideologies, but I never felt really threatened by the AIs, but never did I feel ready to war against any of them effectively. I had Holy Warriors, and purchased at least a half dozen of the UU, but only used them for garrison, since they were not unlocked early enough.

Dido killed off William on T63, so that was pretty aggressive. I had nothing to do with it. On T85, I gave her 3gpt to DOW Bismarck, so that let me off the hook for the early game. I used Liberty finisher for GE and NC on turn T103. That is a little faster than I can get NC done most games playing Tradition, so I was pretty happy with that.

The discussion has been mostly about the mid game, so I have attached T167 screen shot, my closest save file to the T160 mark.


Bismarck played a solid science game and beat me to Porcelain Tower by a wide margin, and then later he got SOH, CN Tower, and GFW. He had five SS parts at the end, but I do not think he was very close to the last tech he needed. I ran Freedom for a long while, but switched to Order after it passed as WI. I hard built all the parts, planting the GE from Spaceship Pioneers as I had already built Hubble in my KSM city, but the GS was quite nice.

From T265 to T312 I waged war against Carthage, recalling William but keeping Amsterdam. I won by SV on T325.


In terms of achievements, I got 4 points for Expansionist. I did not keep track of CS conversions, and maybe for the points the CS has to stay converted? Nothing else, I am sad to say.

 

[raider980]

My game got some weird bug around T280 and its crippling so I can't continue. I wasn't going to win anyway and was about to be attacked again but it would've been nice to go down swinging.

Spoiler :

I was way too optimistic about my T244 war with England and Spain. England brought tons of ships and troops to back it up. Probably the best naval invasion I've seen an AI do. They took a city before I was able to get peace.

I re-built for about 10 turns and then the bug hit. England asked me to DoW Bismark with her so I said yes, sure. Get the powerhouses fighting each other. But somehow the DoW broke all my coastal cities city connections so I was instantly at -100 gpt. Even though they all had intact railroads the game didn't think they were connected. It didn't affect the two cities that I had that weren't coastal. No way I can continue with -100 gpt, especially when it shouldn't be happening. I even reloaded from a few turns back but it happens every time a DoW occurs.

Even though I didn't finish, it was a very fun game, thanks Grendeldef!

 

[beetle]

For anyone following this thread, GotM just posted and it is also Deity Songhai.

 

[Grendeldef]

I did not keep track of CS conversions, and maybe for the points the CS has to stay converted? Nothing else, I am sad to say.

Achis are for the end turn unless otherwise stated so in this case you'll get a points for CSs following your religion in the end.

I also ran into a slight issue when I was about to kill William off after resurrecting him before and as a self proclaimed Supreme Overlord of Semantics from the early days of the series oddly yet to be overthrown I declared that it counts for a point as long as he stays dead until the end.

My game got some weird bug around T280 and its crippling so I can't continue. I wasn't going to win anyway and was about to be attacked again but it would've been nice to go down swinging.

Seems rather odd as there seems to be a road of some sort as far as I can see but apparently you also lost 5 of your Caravans which is a serious blow to your gpt. Anyway, can you provide a save from that turn or even better - a save from pre- & post war turn.

My own game is in a stalemate waging 3 wars @T230. I rarely blame AI for settling too far apart but now I'd love to have cities 6 tiles apart instead of 7 so my GWBs are useless nor is there room for ground troops without AA Guns and I decided not to build to RLs to keep the AI in the tech race so the progress towards Bombers is sloooow. Also I don't know if it's a bug, UI issue or fix for an original bug but I can't see which sort of aircrafts are in the cities - only the number of units which is a bit annoying.

 

[beetle]

I also ran into a slight issue when I was about to kill William off...

Wait, did you kill him off or not?

I might reply the last hundred turns just to be more vicious. William I could resurrect then kill. Dido was broken, but it would have delayed my SV to kill her off. Isabella was very far behind me in tech, so she would have been a soft target, but she was the only other Freedom civ and we had game-long DOFs.

Also I don't know if it's a bug, UI issue or fix for an original bug but I can't see which sort of aircrafts are in the cities - only the number of units which is a bit annoying.

Do you have actual LOS on the cities? Sometimes I see a phantom count of aircraft, but I do not trust the number. If I have actual LOS, then clicking the number shows the units.

 

[Grendeldef]

Wait, did you kill him off or not?

Nope, I didn't but Bismarck earlier did and I resurrected so the question really was if I now did kill him for good should the point go me or Bismarck or neither and my judgement is it goes to the one who was the last to kill him

Do you have actual LOS on the cities? Sometimes I see a phantom count of aircraft, but I do not trust the number. If I have actual LOS, then clicking the number shows the units.

The dilemma resolved itself and I assume it's now finally working as intended (I think).

At least if the AI city is within reach of a Fighter hovering the city show properly the list of air units and their hp. The number on top of the city however doesn't give a list units present in the city. Furthermore I'm (finally) unable to see air units in cities beyond LoS which surely is how it's supposed to work.
With some leisure time I'll check if this works with Triplanes as well or even without one just as long as I have LoS to the city. In this case I had a Spy there.