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[BNW] Community Deity Game #36 - Japan

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by beetle, Jan 12, 2019.

  1. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    CDG 36 – Oda Nobunaga

    Please see the CDG Series Discussion Thread to express yourself if you have remarks and ideas. Some maps in this series use mods. This map uses the DLC map packs, so you will need “Explorers Map Pack”, “Scrambled Nations”, and “Scrambled Continents”, as well as the earlier (and more common) DLC such as “Wonders of the Ancient World”.

    Please be encouraged to share your experience playing this map, but if you post in the first page of this thread, please use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about your neighbors, nearby natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc.

    Before you download and start playing the map, please take a moment to speculate on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA and UU? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

    The suggested VC for this map is Domination.

    Spoiler for starting screen shot :
    civ5ss-cdg36japan-t0.jpeg

    Spoiler for UA and UU :
    Bushido: Units fight as though they were at full strength even when damaged.
    +1 Culture from each Fishing Boat and +2 Culture from each Atoll.

    You can train the Samurai which has the same strength and cost as the Longswordsman which it replaces. The Samurai gets the Shock I promotion for free and also has the Great Generals II unique promotion which is retained as the unit is upgraded. Samurai units have the ability to build fishing boats in a single turn (and without being consumed). Unlike the Longswordsman, Samurai do not become obsolete until Rifling, so they skip the Muskeman upgrade.

    You can also train the Zero which has the same strength and cost as the Fighter which it replaces. The Zero gets a substantial combat bonus against other Fighters and (unlike Fighters) does not require an Oil resource. The Bonus vs Fighter promotion is retained when a Zero is upgraded to a Jet Fighter.

    Spoiler for the map type and other settings :
    Map type is Oceana with strategic balance. Raging Barbarians but standard size, standard speed, standard number of civs and CS. I used Rotate Start Position to pick the best spot. AIs were manually selected so that none would be handicapped by the water-oriented map type.

    Achievements — maximum 6 points in each category:
    1. Exploit the UA early: 1 point for each Atoll and Fishing Boat in your cultural borders – but not including the capital – before NC is completed.
    2. Spam the UU early: 1 point for every second Samurai online at the same time.
    3. Samurai Veterans: 1 point for each Samurai descendant that makes it to Level 6 and that are all alive at the same time. For scoring, the units do not need to survive to the end of the game.
    4. Spam the UU late: 1 point for every second Zero online at the same time.
    5. Zero Veterans: 1 point for each Zero or Fighter Jet descendant that makes it to Level 6 and that are all alive at the same time.
    6. Tricks with the UA/UU (one point each, so just two points available in this category):
      1. Attack once when a unit is very weak, and you normally would not take the risk. Please describe in your write-up.
      2. Build a useful Fishing Boat with a Samurai. This could be 3rd/4th/5th ring lux, or to recover from pillaging.
    Spoiler for links to previous threads in CDG series :
    CDG1: Persia, Oct. 31st, 2015, domination, Pangea, hard, map by Consentient
    CDG2: Assyria, Nov. 15th, 2015, science, Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient
    CDG3: Ethiopia, Dec. 2nd, 2015, culture, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by Consentient
    CDG4: Spain, Dec. 17th, 2015, domination, NQ Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient.
    CDG5: Indonesia, Jan. 2nd, 2016, culture, NQ Continents, hard, map by Consentient.
    CDG6: Zulus, Jan. 15th, 2016, domination, Oval, easy, map by Consentient.
    CDG7: Shoshone, Feb. 2nd, 2016, culture, Oval, very easy, map by Enslingkorp.
    CDG8: Austria, Feb. 15th, 2016, science, Pangaea, very easy, map by IronfighterXXX.
    CDG9: Brazil, Feb. 28th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Blatc.
    CDG10: Denmark, March 14th, 2016, domination, Lakes, hard, map by Beetle.
    CDG11: Venice, April 1st, 2016, domination, Archipelago, very easy, map by Wild_Woojsha.
    CDG12: Byzantium, April 15th, 2016, domination, Continents, very hard, map by Beetle.
    CDG13: Inca, April 30th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Shark Diver.
    CDG14: Celts, May 18th, 2015, domination or culture, Oval, hard, map by Consentient.
    CDG15: America, May 30th, 2016, diplomacy, Mesopotamia, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG16: Sweden, June 14th, 2016, domination or diplomacy, HB Continents, medium, map by Consentient.
    CDG17: Germany, July 2nd, 2016, diplomacy, Pangaea, easy, map by Dan Quayle.
    CDG18: France, July 14rd, 2016, diplomacy, HB Continents, hard, map by MaxAttack.
    CDG19: Ottomans, Aug. 5th, 2016, domination, Continents, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG20: Portugal, Aug. 20th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG21: China, Sept. 9th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by @Dan Quayle.
    CDG22: Maya, Oct. 2nd, 2016, domination or science, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by @consentient.
    CDG23: Iroquois, Oct. 15th, 2016, domination or culture, NQ Oval, very hard, map by @consentient.
    CDG24: Babylon, Nov. 11th, 2016, science, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG25: Arabia, Jan. 15th, 2018, domination, Pangea Plus, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG26: Polynesia, Jan. 29th, 2018, culture, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
    CDG27: Poland, Feb. 18th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG28: Huns, March 4th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, hard, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG29: Korea, March 24th, 2018, science, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
    CDG30: Songhai, April 23rd, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG31: Russia, May 10th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG32: England, June 9th, 2018, domination, Continents, medium, map by @raider980.
    CDG33: Aztec, June 24th, 2018, domination, Lakes, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG34: Rome, Nov. 29th, 2018, domination, HB Continents, hard, map by @beetle.
    CDG35: Greece, Dec. 24th, 2018, domination, HB Pangea, very hard, map by @consentient.

    There are two save files attached to this post. For the file with lite in its name, the AI civs only have one starting settler (instead of the usual two at Deity).
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: Jan 22, 2019
  2. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    The map is totally unknown entity to me but tha start looks ok for starters and I can't even recall when I last played Japan till the end. I think I even hosted Japan to end one of the previous series but I don't remember how it ended or even if it did.

    I rarely build iron based land unit never more than one fighter per game so the achis are bringing something new but I particularly like #6.

    SiP and go from there towards sailing much faster than usually I think will be starting plan. Other than that it's hard to say as this looks like highly iron dependant game sadly I think I don't have time to start before Monday.
     
  3. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am trying to pull people a little out of their comfort zones with the achievements!

    I think I used Strategic Balance. In any case, I don’t remember lack of Iron to be a particular frustration. I should have mentioned that in OP.

    EDIT: I now mention strategic balance option in OP. Also I added the very helpful but-oh-so-tedious-to-edit links to previous games in this series.
     
    Last edited: Jan 12, 2019
  4. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    That I noticed with enthusiasm and with strategic balance there'll be at least some iron, hopefully enough for both Samurais & Frigates as I assume both will be needed.
     
  5. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    I'll start this since I'm stuck on both the Greece and Aztec games. Plus, I love Japan. I keep reading how the AA is not that great but I don't agree. It seems to help alot. It counts for defense too right? Even if it didn't, it helps greatly with bombers, ships, Gats, mounted units, tanks, and of course the Zero, which I use a lot - fighters with no oil, sweet.

    I'll SiP (think that's the only move here), that desert though, I'm not liking it; given this is Deity I don't hope for DF or Petra, and its flatland desert anyway.
     
  6. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Not really played but started so T20

    Spoiler T20 :

    Only 1 Scout and even that was an overkill - a warrior would've been more useful. Started with Mining but it seems that was a mistake as well as there's no one to sell stuff since I advertised greener pastures to Sully's Worker on my side of the fence and that made him mad. I'm also starting Tradition instead of Liberty so I'm swimming in deep waters with this map.
    Next I need to tech to Optics asap, settle a 2nd city, prolly by the Marble as the adequate places are really lacking in the island and keep Sully at his bay. Hopefully there's better land on other islands otherwise the Samurais will be obsolete apart from the boat building duties.
     
  7. penguin74

    penguin74 Chieftain

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    Played about 30 turns before having to restart.

    Spoiler :
    warrior got trapped behind suleiman's borders and scout was basically useless. Barbs were EVERYWHERE. It was like raging barbarians was kicked up to 11 (spinal tap reference). Couldn't work any tiles or get a worker so just gave up.


    Will give it another go tonight
     
  8. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    I restarted too.

    Spoiler ~T150 map and civs named :
    I restarted after exploring a bit and realizing that SiP was not the right move. So I moved north one hex to get the two fish in range.

    I then settled a city near the marble so I could get both marble and incense. This was real close to Suleiman though and he didn't like that. Settled another city on the silver down south. Early war with him but couldn't take his capital.

    I wish I would have gone Tradition instead of Liberty because I only have 4 cities. There's not as much land (with luxes) close by as I thought.

    And I have to load an auto save because Askia just DoW me with frigates and privateers. I'm going to loaded one turn back and make defensive pacts with a few others. I'll still lose my 4th city but maybe the others will keep him from getting more. (Wow, 4 others are willing, question is do I want them all).
     
  9. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Yes, you want them all. I cannot think of any downside to having as many DP as possible to your current situation!
     
  10. penguin74

    penguin74 Chieftain

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    Turn 353 SV. Got INCREDIBLY lucky.
    Spoiler :
    Settled in place. Knew the map,so didn't build a scout. Managed to grab the spot by the marble before Suleiman got there, settled 2 other cities off continent. One on the island just to the east, the other SE of the capital by the 2 pearls/2 fish/atoll. Was behind in tech all game, never managed to take the lead at any point. Only built 1 samurai, the rest of my iron went to Frigates, figuring I'd need to take capitals with my navy anyway.

    Had just started to move towards Suleiman's capital when Harold showed up from behind and attacked. Rushed the navy back to save Tokyo but just barely. I always forget how tough his ability can be to deal with. Changed plans and the navy went to Copenhagen, but only managed to get 2 of his other cities on the island where the capital is before having to peace out as I didn't have an army to defend it. .

    Somehow hit ideology first and went order figuring the AI usually favors that. Unfortunately except for Askia they all went freedom so my happiness tanked the rest of the game. Theodora and Suleiman attacked a little later, so my navy was stretched thin defending with alot of my ships still over by Harold. When I hit battleships I took copenhagen, but could never get any more capitals.

    A couple of timely GS got me the techs I needed to start the space race. However, I was still behind. By the end, Maria, Dido and Suleiman all had 5 parts, I had 2, but they all needed the tech on the bottom half, which I already had. The 3rd row order policy got me the last GS I needed, plus I waited on Oxford, so that got me the last techs. 2 GE's got me to within 1 turn when Suleiman launched. I wanted to cry as I hadn't saved in about 50 turns, so I had to reload to an autosave 5 turns earlier.I couldnt shave 1 turn off the build, so did the only thing i could think of and attacked. I guess it distracted him enough, as this time he didn't launch on the same turn and I launched the next.


    Happy not to have to play this again. Interesting and different experience.
     
  11. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    GG! Despite the water, I do not think this was an easy map.
    LOL, your write-up makes me want to play the map again!
    My first play I ended up with WL vote on T388.
    I reloaded, threw the vote, and kept grinding on towards a DOM VC, but someone launched one T409. I kept grinding, won by DOM on T461.
    But as I wrote, your write-up makes me think I should either (1) start from scratch, or (2) see what an honest SV might look like.
    P.S., I set autosave to 20. Ten turns back is never enough, and I forget to save sometimes.
     
  12. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Attached is my t124 screenshot, when I just built just finished building NC (admittedly late, but I had to wait for Optics). SIP, four-city Tradition.

    I took a worker from the neighbor, made peace, then took another worker soon after, then took one of his Settlers from a barb camp. I am at war again with him, since I hit a upgrade ruin with a CB. But he just built the Great Wall, so I do not really expect to get anywhere until Frigates come online. As @Grendeldef points out, there is a real tension between using Iron for Samurai or Frigates. Japan kind of sucks that way. I can’t say I much thought about that before! Three points for Achievement 1.
    Spoiler for screen shot :
    civ5ss-cdg36japan-t124.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  13. penguin74

    penguin74 Chieftain

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    I only ever built 1 samurai. Kept him all game to repair fishing boats. Rest of the iron was needed for frigates.
     
  14. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Spoiler T206 :
    Finally! The two thousand year war is coming to an end. I took Istanbul T206. I don't often use Citadels but I needed one this time - a good one to render the Great Wall useless. Went on to take Edirne and Ankara a few turns later. Istanbul has some nice wonders so that will help. But I'm still pretty far behind tech-wise.

    I got lucky earlier when Askia attacked me. I did go back and make all 4 defensive pacts and that saved me. He didn't even take my city. He went after my CS ally instead but couldn't even take that because Maria came to the rescue with her fleet and destroyed him.

    Been a fun game so far. I consider it a success since I've taken Suleiman out. I don't think there's any way for a Dom Victory. Maybe turtle to a SV if I'm lucky.

    Spoiler Screenshot :
    Japan takes Istanbul.jpg


     
  15. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Attached is my T232 screenshot when I unlocked Rifling. Eight Samurai, so 4 points for achievement 2.

    I realized that I did not have Pearls locked up at all, so I planted a fifth city right after NC which only leaves one loose. I am friendly with the neighbor for the time being, as I am going to wait on Battleships to get rolling.

    I was second to Ideologies and opened Autocracy. I will try to win by DOM VC after all. I might have to flip to Order, but if I do, that will be after Prora and after as many level-4-out-of-the-gate units as I can manage. I have narrowly won IG and WF (they came up out of order), so that is a nice change of pace for me too. I am pretty teching like I would for SV, and I expect to get Hubble.
    Spoiler for screenshot :
    civ5ss-cdg36japan-t232.jpeg
     
    Last edited: Jan 24, 2019
  16. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Funny, all our cities are in different places. I did restart to change my capital location though so it was originally a SiP. I wish I would have gotten that spot next to the mountain two islands to the east. I didn't see it in time; I actually let a Ottoman settler through because I didn't want to fight at that exact moment, now I wish I would've killed it.
     
  17. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    I am really jealous of where you got Tokyo and Osaka! Please tell me that you played the lite version! Also, I did not mean for SIP to be so much of a dirty trick to put two fish in the fourth ring. In highlight, I wish I had moved the starting settler.
     
    Last edited: Jan 25, 2019
  18. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Yep, lite version. He actually built Ankara on that one tile island before I built Osaka. There were barbs swarming all over near where I built it; they must've prevented him from getting the good location on the mainland. And I built settlers much earlier than I normally do because of that desert and I wanted to get some good spots.
     
  19. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Woo hoo! Finally won a legit CDG (lite version of course); and not with the suggested victory condition, but still that's an accomplishment for me. T372 Science Victory.

    Spoiler T372 Victory :
    Once I had taken over The Ottoman Empire and pushed him off my island, I knew I wouldn't be able to get a Dom Victory, Carthage, Portugal and Byzantium were way too strong. So I decided to turtle on my island home and try for a science victory. I barely beat Dido to the last spaceship part. It was a fun game. Twice I thought I was for sure dead. I was friends with Maria and Theodora the whole game which helped immensely.

    Spoiler Japan Victory :
    Japan CDG victory.jpg



     
  20. beetle

    beetle Deity

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    Congrats! The settings (Deity difficulty, but minus the Settler) for this lite map are definitely harder than Immortal, so Good Game!
     

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