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[BNW] Community Deity Game #41 - The Netherlands

Discussion in 'Civ5 - Strategy & Tips' started by Grendeldef, May 13, 2019.

  1. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    It's been a while since the last so here it goes - something to do between the games and if one isn't into ice hockey then for any given time. The map should be, once again, on the easier side but hopefully achi hunting or voluntary distractions will offer something to counter that.


    Spoiler The Netherlands :


    - Sea Beggar
    - Polder
    - The Dutch East India Company





    Please see the CDG Series Discussion Thread to express yourself if you have remarks and ideas. Some maps in this series use mods. This map uses the DLC map packs, so you will need “Explorers Map Pack”, “Scrambled Nations”, and “Scrambled Continents”, as well as the earlier (and more common) DLC such as “Wonders of the Ancient World”.

    Please share your experience playing this map, but if you post in the first page of this thread, use the SPOILER tag if you attach a picture, make a comment about your neighbors, nearby natural wonders, locations of ancient ruins, terrain features, luxes, resources, etc.

    Before you download and start playing the map, please take a moment to speculate on your initial thoughts and plans for the game. Which version will you be playing? Will you settle in place? Will you try to found a religion? What are your plans for getting the most from the UA, UB, and UU? What Victory Condition will you be aiming for?

    After you play the map, please take the time to post a screen shot relevant to your victory and write about your experience with the map. Could you notice the edits to the map? Did you have any difficulty getting resources? Was this map easier or harder than the typical deity game? What VC did you pursue, and what was your path to victory (or defeat)? What World Wonders did you build? What did you do with religion and how many GP did you faith purchase? How many techs did you steal with spies, and how where you using them towards the end of the game?

    All VCs are enabled.

    The Map & settings of all 3 versions.

    Spoiler Start :


    Map is std size Terra Incognita with additional land, a 9th civ & 20 CSs

    - 13 NWs
    - additional luxes and resources all around the map
    - blocking ice has been removed
    - coastal areas should be more likely 2 than 1 tile wide
    - Raging Barbs
    - one CS has been met on T0 so you'll lose 15 or 30 G but that shouldn't be much of an issue


    Shaka & Alex were sent playing somewhere else.

    Opponents
    Spoiler :

    Ahmad, Askia, Bismarck, Monte,Napoleon, Ramesses, Washington & Wu


    Different versions:

    Lite

    - 2 Scouts
    - Archer
    - Trireme
    - 100G

    Easy

    - 2 Scouts
    - Archer
    - Trireme
    - Worker
    - 200G
    - Liberty opened






    Spoiler Achievements :


    1) Sell or trade different luxes (for other luxes) before Education, capped 12 points

    2pts for each sold
    1pt for each traded



    2) NWs found, Starting continent defined as accessible without Navigation. Capped 12 points.

    1 pt for each NW on the starting continent before T100
    -2 pts for each on the starting continent NWs from T100 onwards

    2 pts for NWs requiring Astronomy before Industrial
    3 pts for each NW found by a GAdm before Industrial
    4 pts for each NW found by a GAdm before teching Navigation
    -1 pt for NWs requiring Astronomy before Modern
    -2 pts for NWs requiring Astronomy in Modern or later



    3) Get a pop gain in a city with a Polder(s) before Modern.

    2 cities - 1 pt
    4 " - 2 pts
    5 " - 3 pts
    6 " ...- 6 pts
    8(+) - 8 pts



    4) Civ/CS met by finding their borders by a Sea Beggar. Meetings at seas are points-neutral. Capped 12 points.

    3 pts for a major civ
    1 pt for a CS
    -1 pt meeting a civ/CS by them finding your land


    5) Ships converted with Sea Beggars

    6 pts - 10(+)
    4 pts - 8
    3 pts - 7
    2 pts - 6
    1 pt - 4







    Spoiler for links to previous threads in CDG series :
    CDG1: Persia, Oct. 31st, 2015, domination, Pangea, hard, map by Consentient
    CDG2: Assyria, Nov. 15th, 2015, science, Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient
    CDG3: Ethiopia, Dec. 2nd, 2015, culture, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by Consentient
    CDG4: Spain, Dec. 17th, 2015, domination, NQ Pangaea, medium, map by Consentient.
    CDG5: Indonesia, Jan. 2nd, 2016, culture, NQ Continents, hard, map by Consentient.
    CDG6: Zulus, Jan. 15th, 2016, domination, Oval, easy, map by Consentient.
    CDG7: Shoshone, Feb. 2nd, 2016, culture, Oval, very easy, map by Enslingkorp.
    CDG8: Austria, Feb. 15th, 2016, science, Pangaea, very easy, map by IronfighterXXX.
    CDG9: Brazil, Feb. 28th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Blatc.
    CDG10: Denmark, March 14th, 2016, domination, Lakes, hard, map by Beetle.
    CDG11: Venice, April 1st, 2016, domination, Archipelago, very easy, map by Wild_Woojsha.
    CDG12: Byzantium, April 15th, 2016, domination, Continents, very hard, map by Beetle.
    CDG13: Inca, April 30th, 2016, culture, Pangaea, medium, map by Shark Diver.
    CDG14: Celts, May 18th, 2015, domination or culture, Oval, hard, map by Consentient.
    CDG15: America, May 30th, 2016, diplomacy, Mesopotamia, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG16: Sweden, June 14th, 2016, domination or diplomacy, HB Continents, medium, map by Consentient.
    CDG17: Germany, July 2nd, 2016, diplomacy, Pangaea, easy, map by Dan Quayle.
    CDG18: France, July 14rd, 2016, diplomacy, HB Continents, hard, map by MaxAttack.
    CDG19: Ottomans, Aug. 5th, 2016, domination, Continents, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG20: Portugal, Aug. 20th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by Beetle.
    CDG21: China, Sept. 9th, 2016, domination, Pangaea, medium, map by @Dan Quayle.
    CDG22: Maya, Oct. 2nd, 2016, domination or science, NQ Pangaea, hard, map by @consentient.
    CDG23: Iroquois, Oct. 15th, 2016, domination or culture, NQ Oval, very hard, map by @consentient.
    CDG24: Babylon, Nov. 11th, 2016, science, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG25: Arabia, Jan. 15th, 2018, domination, Pangea Plus, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG26: Polynesia, Jan. 29th, 2018, culture, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
    CDG27: Poland, Feb. 18th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG28: Huns, March 4th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, hard, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG29: Korea, March 24th, 2018, science, Small Continents Plus, easy, map by @beetle.
    CDG30: Songhai, April 23rd, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG31: Russia, May 10th, 2018, domination, Terra Incognita, medium, map by @Grendeldef.
    CDG32: England, June 9th, 2018, domination, Continents, medium, map by @raider980.
    CDG33: Aztec, June 24th, 2018, domination, Lakes, medium, map by @beetle.
    CDG34: Rome, Nov. 29th, 2018, domination, HB Continents, hard, map by @beetle.
    CDG35: Greece, Dec. 24th, 2018, domination, HB Pangea, very hard, map by @consentient.
    CDG36: Japan, Jan. 12th, 2018, domination, Oceania, medium, map by @beetle.
     

    Attached Files:

    Last edited: May 13, 2019
  2. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    Finally, got Win 10 on my computer so can give this a try! CDG fizzled out? No love for William? Never had a real game as The Dutch but always thought them interesting. And I see 2 Polders already in the starting screenshot so this should be fun.

    That easy might be a little to easy, even for me. But I'll play it because I'm out of practice for 9 months. I'll have more of a view with the easy one but going off this screenshot I'd move the warrior SW to see what is around those Polder spots, may want to move closer to them. Or could move the settler NE to the hill and leave room for a second city near the Polders.
     
  3. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    Bloody awesome that someone's showing interest on these again and I think I'll join as well. I haven't played since I posted this apart from taking part to that Prince question thread. It got a bit out of hand so I've few dozen Prince to Immortal starts but nothing beyond WC win. Very different type of fun with Pocatello but hardly challenging even though I barely recognize a Settler anymore. Regarding this I can't remember if I started this and if so how far I got so I may even have to start from scratch. I can't even remember if the map was edited by me or outsourced. Good times ahead and I think I got to making an Egypt map before fading out.
     
  4. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    It’s been fun so far but I think I’m about to be in trouble. I can see why The Dutch aren’t ranked very high in tier lists, Polders are awesome but they come too late. I’m trying Liberty because it is more interesting to me, but every time I do I can’t help but think that Tradition is just better in any given circumstance (unless you have a million cities, but I can never manage that in Civ 5).

    Spoiler Through T125 :

    I’m playing easy but it gave me a serious dilemma at the start. With all those units I could see the coast and I debated long and hard whether to move to that sweet spot on the coast or SiP. I decided to SiP and then figured I’d build two more cites on either side of the sweet spot.

    So much sweet, sweet land – and I’m mad because I can’t settle it all (I wish Civ 5 were like Civ 2, I’d have all that land covered by now). At turn 50 I thought I was doing awesome. I had 3 cities and was on track to get a religion. But somehow it all went downhill after that. By T125 I only had 5 cities and just got done with a war after being DOW by China and having to fight them off. And now I feel like I’m behind.

    I’m now at war with Askia because he was annoying me with his city and missionary spam. I bribed his southern neighbor (forgot who it is now) to attack him and paid a pretty penny for it. But he fought off my first attack on his city. I’m debating whether to give up or continue since he may be out of units and he’s losing cities in the south. I fear China is going to attack me again from the east.

    I think I made two serious mistakes:

    1. Not attacking Askia in the very beginning. He had only two cities and I had archers and scouts and warriors. I knew he was going to be a problem but decided it would be too costly. I’ve only once successfully attacked a civ with just archers though.

    2. Taking OWN pantheon and trying to settle the island to the NW to get a religion. I should have just taken the Silver pantheon and saved that island for later, the AI weren’t going to get to it any time soon. I usually ignore religion on Deity because I can never compete with the AI.

    Spoiler Screenshot T125 :
    The Dutch T125.jpg




     
    Last edited: Feb 3, 2020
  5. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    I think I made the map but I'm still not totally sure however I can safely say the achis are by my design - get out & explore. In general it's wasy to agree with Raider about Tradition vs Liberty though I might be past suitable for commenting as I only do Liberty apart from few Honor & Piety for kicks occasionally. Tradition is just boring.

    Spoiler Up to T60 :


    SiP, double Scout - Monument - Shrine - Scout so nothing unusual here though the Shrine was obsolete as I got OwN from a ruin like 2x culture so I settled near Kilimandjaro ~T30 the problem being negative happiness so I couldn't get working it right away.
    T11 DoWed Morocco for Workers which I eventually got 3 of. No peace since he went Piety and I need to later kill the invading Missionaries. Had to pay Askia to attack Morocco instead of me and after sending a Caravan to Gao he's not hugging my borders.

    T60 3rd religion and 6 cities - I went RP mode after seeing all that lovely land which may come to haunt me later but I'll worry about that later. Decent gpt but I think I may hard build all Libs as I'm teching slowly and moreover I don't wanna do 6C NC by 6 pop capital.
    DoF with Egypt who's leading in tech & pop, China isn't too happy and Honor Askia may backstab anytime so I might be ok but after playing only on lower lvls lately I'm not too confident. I just don't have the hammers atm to do much more.

    Found 3 NWs so far and apparently there're 13 of them and hopefully Triremes will get some more. I think there're habitable islands somewhere especially if this is my map. Allied with KIev which will help finishing the Lib tree but the CSs are all on the edges of the known world which makes most of them out of reach for Caravans.

    I still haven't decided what to do with the Liberty finisher. GAd would be cool but I might also need a GE for NC or GS for planting as I might be very much off the tech pace.

     
  6. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    This has been one of the most fun games I can remember. Its an even match, a lot of back and forth fighting. I'm not destroying them, they're not destroying me - usually its one or the other; and the AI are fighting but no one is running away with it. Its T151 and I have still have a chance to win.

    Spoiler Through T151 :
    After T125 I continued to fight Askia for a little while, but then I noticed both China and Egypt massing troops at my eastern borders. I just knew they were going to joint DoW me. So since I wasn't getting anywhere with Askia I peaced out - he gave me a lot; all his gold, two luxes and some horses and iron.

    All my troops started heading east. But what to do? I first asked Ramses if he would like to go to war against China since he was more friendly. He said no. So then I asked Wu if she would join me in a war against Egypt. To my surprise, she said sure let's go. I lost a lot of gpt and a Research Agreement but Egypt has a lot of wonders and I think I can get them, the land is much more favorable to attack than Askia was.

    I still haven't met anyone from the other continent(s). I'm building a Caravel now so hopefully soon.

    Edit. Forgot to mention. I had an epic fail too. A newly built city got conquered by a City State! After our war started, Ramses allied Antananarivo which was right next to my new Pop 1 city with no troops to defend.

    Spoiler Screenshot T151 :
    The Dutch T151.jpg


     
    Last edited: Feb 5, 2020
  7. raider980

    raider980 Prince

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    SV T327. This was an awesome game. One of the most memorable games I’ve had in Civ 5. So much happened and it was very close all game all the way up to the end.

    Spoiler Victory :
    The Aztecs had four spaceship parts before I had even built one. But apparently all the wars Monty was in drained his science budget because I was able to catch up and launch before he even built his 5th part. Haha, I didn't even know Germany was in the game until I came across the Aztec city of Berlin.

    Spoiler Montezuma’s Revenge :
    Guess he was too busy nuking America. Yes, there used to be a city in that big circle of radiation. Nuked.jpg


    The map was great. Very interesting land shapes and some nice large islands. It had enough room to expand and not be hemmed in by the AI like typical maps.

    The only wonder I build was Neuschwanstein. I conquered plenty of others from Egypt though. I had the most wonders in the game at the end; thanks Rameses.

    I had a weak religion and even lost it in my capital toward the end. Funnily, the most dominant religion belonged to Askia, who got wiped out by Morocco fairly early. I stole a few techs but not many because it was taking way too many turns. Mostly used spies to keep my CS allies since my enemy America kept trying to take the ones right in the middle of my empire.

    The Netherlands is an awesome civ, not sure why they don’t rate higher. The happiness I could get with the UA was ridiculous. It allowed me to go wide without worrying about happiness. I ended up with 13 cities, all but three were self founded; that doesn’t usually happen.

    And I was pumping out Sea Beggars so fast I didn’t really need to worry if they died. They were one of the big reasons I was able to fend off a late mid-game attack from Washington. My Beggars were fighting off his Battleships. Oh, and Polders. Even though they come a little late, they make up for it by being so awesome. My late build cities were able to catch up in pop quite quickly.

    Spoiler Victory T327 :
    Dutch victory.jpg
     
  8. rgduck

    rgduck Chieftain

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    Well, the current lockdown seems like a good time to come back to this game. Here are my thoughts before starting:

    I like to let the achievements guide my play in these CDG games. For the luxury, Polder, and NW achievements, Liberty feels like the obvious opener. I want a bunch of cities and I want to use the Liberty finisher on an early GAdm. Mid-game, I'll want early Sea Beggars for the Civ/CS meeting and naval warfare achievements. I like how all of this works together thematically and historically. This looks like it'll be a fun map!

    I'll be playing the normal version. The starting location is strong, so SIP unless my warrior finds something even better on the first turn. No religion unless it falls in my lap, but I'll build a Shrine and hope for either the Silver/Gold or quarries pantheon. I'll have to do at least a modest amount of conquest for the Sea Beggar capture achievement, but I don't want to go for domination. Maybe I'll just pick on a couple of city-states and otherwise play for a peaceful CV.
     
  9. Grendeldef

    Grendeldef Trancerelic

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    After that 60 turn stint I found an end save from T294 so apparently I've played it through ages ago but I can't find any notes of it so I've been actively trying to forget it for the past month so I can resume what I started. Given the circumstances this is probably an overkill, though.

    The VC was diplo so I assume I got hooked on on the RP elements, again, and took the easy way out in the end.
     
  10. rgduck

    rgduck Chieftain

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    It's going well, but not much like I had planned.

    Spoiler Early game :
    Settled on the silver to the NW. Stole both workers from the Songhai, then made peace. I skipped the shrine but I got Religious Idols from a ruin, so I ended up with the 3rd religion, but two neighbors went Piety, so I don't plan to compete.

    I had planned on a 3-city Liberty CB rush, but there's a lot of space, my neighbors were polite, and the Netherlands happiness bonus makes wide Liberty easier, so I founded 6 cities:

    T106.PNG

    Spoiler To T106 :
    NC was slow, as you'd expect with 6 cities. Also I spent the Liberty finisher on a Great Admiral, so I'm still about 15 turns away from Education. After that, I'll beeline Navigation and go conquering with Frigates and Sea Beggars. I hate to ruin the hug-fest my continent has enjoyed so far, but I need to conquer some polder territory and capture some ships with Sea Beggars for the achievements. Also Ramses has built seven wonders in his coastal capital, so I'd love to make his Great Wall look silly by conquering it.
     
  11. rgduck

    rgduck Chieftain

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    Gah! Literally the turn after I posted this, one of my "friends" moved a bunch of units into sight. The next turn, I got backstab DoW from another. Now I'm fighting both.

    I suspect I'll be okay, but I've cut it awfully close. I've left myself fall behind on military tech and units trying to beeline Sea Beggars. I would definitely lose a city here, except for how fantastic the terrain is for defense:

    This is after fighting off the first wave:
    backstab.PNG
     

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