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Community Ideas: VP Leader-Specific Diplomacy

Discussion in 'Community Patch Project' started by Recursive, Dec 26, 2019.

  1. Yaviel

    Yaviel Chieftain

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    America (Washington)
    Approach Change: (Thief) Strong war bias against weaker civs with more land or oil.
    Rationale: (Deceitful) Bribes other civs to go to war against each other and then joins the winning side.
     
    Teholb likes this.
  2. pineappledan

    pineappledan Deity

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  3. Guynemer

    Guynemer King

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    pretty sure that was patched out several months ago
     
  4. theMisterRud

    theMisterRud Chieftain

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    Technically, Liz would love to have you spy on her after White Tower is build, easy spy farming means easy Gold/Science :D
     
    Hinin, Omen of Peace, vyyt and 2 others like this.
  5. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    I've updated the second post in this thread with a list of all civilizations and their unique bonuses, which should aid in this process.

    Will start considering these ideas shortly. Thank you to everyone who contributed ideas (and feel free to continue doing so!)
     
  6. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    I really love that idea @HeathcliffWarriors and have some ideas. I am not as familiar with civ5 AI subtilities as you are, so I have some questions :
    - How does the AI diplomacy calculate proximity ? Is it an objective mesurement (like, 5 tiles from its borders) or a subjective one (evolving according to its approach and its relations to other civs) ?

    - You described the approaches as tendencies, but how much can an heavy bias really impact AI strategical decisions (for example, declaring war) ? I'm asking this simply because in the following suggestions I make, sometimes I wonder if giving a "war"/"hostile" bias would be too much, and so a "guarded" or "deceptive" approach would be more benefitial gameplay-wise (since we want civs to use their traits in more advantageous ways without creating wars everywhere).

    - UI-wise, is it possible to make the active approach changes visible in the diplomacy windows (like a "Blood for the Fifth Sun !" for Monty when his war bias is activated against you), even though it is not a direct +/- modifier like warmongering penalty ? If that's possible, it could be an additionnal diplomacy element the AI could choose to hide from you, and it could be showed with different colors that those used by +/- modifiers (for example : orange for negative bias, blue for positive ones).

    - Is there a heavy diplomatic penalty specifically attributed to the capture of a capital city (other than with the owner of the city of course), or is the importance of this kind of cities yield-wise the most important reason why capturing them has such a diplomatic impact ?

    - Can the AI know the different types of units you have and their number (for example, your number of naval units) ?


    To me, Montezuma should look for opportunities to trigger golden ages through wars whenever possible (and not only during the pre-renaissance eras), because his kit (and, I assume, the beliefs of his religion and his policies) is made to give benefits during GAs. Because of this, he should be looking for good war targets throughout all the game, and so I have an idea.

    Aztecs (Montezuma) Approach Change: + 1x WAR/HOSTILE bias pre-Renaissance Era towards all civs ; + 1x WAR/HOSTILE bias post-Medieval Era towards civs without defensive pact or vassal.
    Special Trait (Ximicacan): As the most aggressive leader in the game, Montezuma gains an additional +1x WAR/HOSTILE bias unconditionally, but also ignores most warmongering by other civs (diplomatically, that is; he still gets anti-warmonger fervor).

    Because of his bias against civs without a defensive pact, Montezuma wouldn't throw himself into wars with coalitions post-Medieval Era (the Aztec Empire was defeated by a coalition of Mesoamerican cities with the Spanish after all), but would attack isolated civs, augmenting his chances to win the war and so trigger GAs.

    I don't think it corresponds well to the civ kit. Since it is geared toward siege and offensive warfare, with not this ?

    Ottomans (Kostantiniyye'nin Fethi) : + 1x WAR/HOSTILE bias towards civs with their capital city at the proximity of his borders.

    Because of this, Suleiman would be more dedicated to warfare against civs he can easily "decapitate" by capturing their capitals, which he can do more easily than most civs.

    I have a slightly different version, but I like the idea.
    England (Two power standard) : "+1x DECEPTIVE/GUARDED bias towards civs with equivalent or superior number of naval units (0.75 or more of her amount)".
    This way, Liz would try to undermine the efforts of other naval powers without going into an all-out war with them. However, I don't think she should be more friendly towards potential continental powers, since in civ 5 she isn't guaranted to spawn on an island that would help her against this kind of menace.

    I like the second idea the most (although I think it would be too dangerous because of defensive pacts creating unfavorable situations for GW), but I wonder how we could implement it, since the only effect "continents" have in civ 5 are visual (slight color differences on terrain), and "landmass effects" are very map dependant. If the continent differences can be used for something else than these visual changes, that would be nice.
    So it could bring something like this :
    America (Monroe Doctrine) : "+1x DECEPTIVE/GUARDED bias towards civs of the same continent as the American capital city and civs allied with CS of that continent."

    That would have two effects :
    - having a negative approach to adjacent civs, Washington would be more akin to use his UA to steal tiles from them, but he wouldn't be an automatic warmonger
    - Washington would try to undermine other civs efforts to ally CS in his "sphere of influence"
     
    Last edited: Jan 4, 2020
  7. Hinin

    Hinin King

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    Did my first publication in several months just managed to make this thread die ? :sad:
     
    Last edited: Feb 6, 2020
  8. Kim Dong Un

    Kim Dong Un The One & Unly Supporter

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    Heathcliff had to take a bit of a breather, and I believe the recent diplo changes (stemming from the past couple versions) have been prioritized and taken the focus. The main diplo must first be refined before delving into further intricacies such as those presented within this thread.
     
  9. Recursive

    Recursive Emperor

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    I'll get to this soon, I've had to set VP work aside for the past few weeks or so due to personal problems, but I'll be back starting next version.
     
    vyyt likes this.

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