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Companies

Discussion in 'Rhye's and Fall: Europe' started by AbsintheRed, Feb 10, 2013.

  1. steampunk1880

    steampunk1880 Prince

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    Does this mean no more Mediterranean Hanseatic League? If so I think there should be at least one other corp that focuses on food production.
     
  2. ezzlar

    ezzlar Emperor

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    I believe there are no food corps in SoI because of the semi-random appearance and disappearance of the corps. Population increases and starvations in turns would be disturbing to strategy planning.
     
  3. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    I was also thinking that the bonus of the HL should change if we change to the company system. I think a food bonus in the company system won't work well.
     
  4. Spirictum

    Spirictum Immortal

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    In DoC there is the Silk Road which gives food (on a small proportion). Maybe it's not that bad if the company gives a small quantity of food per resorce
     
  5. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    Giving it a second thought, it might be not that bad, but only if the foodbonus isn't too big.
    What I want to avoid is that a city's population decreases a lot when a corp leaves a city. If it is only 1 (maybe 2) pop, it doesn't hurt that much. But any bigger number will really hurt the game IMO.
    IMO, the maximum amount of food a city could get from a corp should be 4. (only if you have a huge amount of resources. The majority of cities should only get 1-2 food)

    I think extra food is much stronger than extra gold/science/production etc. More food means more population. That means you can work an extra tile or hire an extra specialist. The bonus that tile/specialist provides is often better than you would get from other corps. And in the case of specialist, you also get GP points. And you can decide for yourself what bonus you get, instead of a pre-determined bonus from the corp.


    Will the companies still have some maintenance costs? In SoI, the companies have no maintenance. But in DoC, they do. Did someone playd both modcmods and compare this difference?
    I think myself that the maintenance costs should be kept, but reduced severly. Currently, it's not unlikely that you pay about 8:gold: to maintance for each corp in each city. I think that number should be quite low. Something between 0.5-1 :gold: for each corp in each city.

    Also, the bonus you get from the corps should be tweeked. I think that the avarage bonus should be between 1-3 gold/science/production/etc. So it is a nice bonus if you have a corp, but when you don't have it, you won't have such a great disadvantage.
     
  6. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Agreed, my plan was to reduce the food bonus from Hanseatic League
    Make it more mercantile, mainly with commerce bonuses, but still have some small food bonus too

    Btw, we can start planning the exact bonuses for the companies
    Also the active time period, region, what will attract them to a given city/civ, etc
    At least for the 7 already included ones, all of those will stay
     
  7. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Yep

    If there is no company HQ represented ingame, I don't think there is need for any maintenance cost from a logical point of view
    The company is totally independent, not connected to any of the civs
    Thus the maintenance cost shouldn't be payed by the civs either

    From a gameplay perspective, it's only a minor balancing issue
    Maintenance was there to counterbalance the HQ, but with no HQ, there is no need for a big maintenance cost
    Small maintenance can be easily balanced with the bonuses, but I don't see any reason why we should do that
    All in all, I plan to follow the SoI way

    Obviously, the current bonuses are too much
    Also, don't only think of gold/science/production bonuses
    For example for the crusader orders, unique units could be the main advantage of the corps. Maybe faith and/or health related bonuses
     
  8. merijn_v1

    merijn_v1 Black Belt

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    As for the Hanseatic League, all cities had to pay some sort of membership fee. I was thinking that would be represented by the maintenance.
    (This might not be the case for the other corps though)

    I'll create a list in the 3rd post of this thread. The general info of the companies can be seen there.
     
  9. iOnlySignIn

    iOnlySignIn Prince$s

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    Agreed.

    Just to elaborate on this, the SoI/DoC model is such that:

    (0) All companies spread more easily if the city has more Trade Routes

    (1) Spread of a company requires a certain tech

    (2) Some companies start disappearing after a certain date/tech

    (3) Some companies are only active in certain regions

    (4) Companies are attracted by specific resources, buildings, civics, etc.

    Hanseatic League
    (1) Clockmaking
    (2) 1500 (starts disappearing)
    (3) Coastal cities north of Paris
    (4) Salt, Fish, Fur, Timber; Lighthouse, Harbor, Market, Warf, Guild Hall; Guilds, Apprenticeship, Trade Economy, Merchant Republic;

    Teutonic Order
    (1) Civil Service
    (2) Astronomy (stops spreading)
    (3) Any city controlled by a Catholic civ Northeast of and including Genoa, and Italy;
    (4) Salt, Clam, Horse, Iron; Barracks, Stable, Courthouse, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; Feudal Monarchy, Feudal Law, Bureaucracy, Religious Law, Theocracy;

    Templar Order
    (1) Classical Knowledge
    (2) Divine Right (stops spreading)
    (3) Any city controlled by a Catholic civ. If the city has Islam, spread is much more likely.
    (4) Wine, Wheat, Horse, Iron; Stable, Manor House, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; Feudal Monarchy, Feudal Law, Religious Law, State Religion;

    Hospitaller Order
    (1) Chivalry
    (2) Printing Press (stops spreading)
    (3) Any Coastal city controlled by a Catholic civ southeast of and including Genoa. If the city has Islam, spread is much more likely.
    (4) Iron, Timber, Incense; Walls, Lighthouse, Catholic Church, Catholic Monastery; State Religion, Theocracy, Merchant Republic;

    The three Knightly Orders compete against each other, i.e. they are less likely/impossible to spread to the same cities.

    Knightly Orders should provide significantly less Yield/Commerce than the Banks/Commercial Leagues, because they have the added benefit of enabling powerful Units.
     
  10. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    So, apart from the already included 7 ones, I'm already settled on the Order of Dragon (against Ottomans), Order of Santiago (against Cordobans), Guild of St. Luke
    Maybe the Karimi too, but they don't have too much place to spread, probably they are better suited in SoI.
    We shouldn't have too many corporations/companies/orders, IMO it wouldn't be fun if every city can easily get at least one, but I'm willing to add a couple more
    Please read the thread before throwing in random suggestions
     
  11. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    best idea i ever heard :D
    also soi's corp system is lovely.

    @jerusalem: if a crusade succes, 1st time u get a GA, and then the pope take controll jerusalem. if he fails then he call another crusade. how about this? ogc french uhv need to be modified, like help the pope to take jerusalem 2 times or 3.
     
  12. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Aviz
    its already have some trace in the game and i would love to see them realizing as an order in portugal and nearby. also portugal, spanish and aragones defensive crusade may spanw them more likely to support reconquista.
     
  13. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    Order of Aviz is too strongly connected to Portugal. I don't see how could it be represented as a corporation which may spread to other places than Portugal, so there would be no real competition there.
    Thus I think we should leave them represented in the Portuguese UU, the Knight of Aviz
     
  14. gilgames

    gilgames Priest-King

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    Well, if do not grip with claws and fingers to RL history it can spread to Spain even aragon and to catholic Cordoba too, imo. still its just a game. also could be extended to south-west mediterran. I know its not that historical but having a unique maceman, not only knights is a good thing imo.
     
  15. Swarbs

    Swarbs Emperor

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    Aren't the Knights of St John (Knights Hospitallers) a unique maceman already?

    If we want another general chivalric order for Iberia, we could consider the Order of Calatrava: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Order_of_Calatrava

    Knights of Santiago could be unique mounted knights, and Knights of Calatrava could be foot soldiers.

    Also will we have equivalent orders for the Islamic factions to give them the opportunity to attract similar unique units? Some that come to mind are the Fedayeen (Assassins with special unit a modified spy), Akıncı (Ottoman versions of Ghazis) and the Christian guard for Islamic Iberian civs.
     
  16. SanJose

    SanJose King

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    What about free promotions or 0,5-1XP per resources for Ordens?
     
  17. AbsintheRed

    AbsintheRed Deity

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    I'm not against adding some corps connected to Islamic civs
    But I would like to avoid corporations which are for one civ only
    If there is no competition between civs, who will build up the best cities for the given corporation (which cities will attract them the most), then I see no point in adding them.

    Possibly
    But unique units for the corporations are already very special and very powerful, usually with extra promotions
    So I'm not convinced that extra xp is also needed
     
  18. SanJose

    SanJose King

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    Sufi:
    Spoiler :
    Date: 12th century - (Arabic Knowledge, Philosophy)
    Area: (Caucasus, the Balkans, Africa, Spain, Asia Minor, Syria, Crimea)
    Religion: Islam
    Resources: Incense*, Coffee*(why it missed for islamic civs:confused:)
    Bonus: 1-2:science: and 1-2:culture: per recources
    Other: Islamic buildings
    Allows the player to build Khanqah (or Ribat, Zawiya for Maghreb, effect like Sufi shrine in SoI) and Mevlana Tomb (new islamic WW, effect like Shahnameh in SoI)

    *Ottomans can recieve from Yemen Project and Eritrea(Medri Bahri) Project
    *Ottomans can recieve from Yemen Project
     
  19. SanJose

    SanJose King

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    Suggestion:
    • Add high piety as required for this units, no piety = no units
    • Add as mersc
    • Convert to basic units when Orden dissolved
    • In SoI, Sengoku, RI many interesting promotions, which doesnt overpowered, but can use as extra promotions for Orden units
     
  20. SanJose

    SanJose King

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    Radhanite look good for early merchant companies
     

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