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Compete in King Livel (pasted from general)

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by PAnz3r, Jan 3, 2011.

  1. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    Well, i bought the buggy one , CiV , but it's really broken up and so i decided to return to the mighty Civ IV, well i still have the same problema form the last time i played it, i usually win ( using no space race victory and no cultural victory left only domination and point victory) at prince level, now i switch to king level because i feel it a bit hard.....sincerily i never win at this level , i remain at the bottom of the point valutation for all the games and usually in a worst technology disadvantage that cause sometimes my total defeat on the battlefield....

    well my first problem its the "space" , when i start a game the Ais are too fast at colonizing the continents where im on it and they take the best place leaving only harsh location to me...when i try to counter this colonization spree i usually set five or six citys as fast as i can only to have my economy ( and technology research as well) complety broken up, causing my last position in Tech...

    the only games where i had some chanche to win where when i started on isolated chunk of heart where i can plan and bulit up my civ with the right timing...

    well, i need some tips to compete...nothing more

    i usually choose a random map type ( more time continents) , Huge , King , Marathon.

    Thx
     
  2. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Monarch: more workers.
    Specialize your cities.
    Aim for Currency early!
    Post a game online (screenshots/save) while playing short sets (~25 turns max).
     
  3. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    another user say that the problem is in the map size...and that i must choose a standard map instead a huge one....it's possible?

    btw i follow your counsil
     
  4. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Larger maps make any mistakes you do will snowball more as there is more land to lose. Also giving advice on huge maps is difficult, looking over the whole situation is time consuming and loading htem requires a pretty decent computer that not everyone has.
     
  5. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    good to see you made it over here, Panz3r :)
     
  6. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    sorry, what is the mining of "make snowball"

    i want to have tips for compete better in kings level guys, i know that someone win at deity level and i want to know how :D


    @lymond: thx mate :)
     
  7. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    ^^^^ "make" is a verb tied to "you", meaning "mistakes you make in the game". "Snowball" by itself in this context (meaning), refers to a situation becoming increasingly worse over time. Also known as the "Snowball Effect". (Imagine the a little snowball that starts rolling down a snowing mountain, gathering up more snow as it rolls along until it becomes a giant snowball - like in a cartoon or something) In other words, the mistakes your are making on huge maps are going to be felt even harder as the game progresses. GHP's reference to land is basically the same thing I mentioned over on the other thread.

    As we've mentioned, posting up a game and screenshots will get you a lot more feedback. I recommend posting a game at the start and getting advice at 20 turn intervals. However, you can also just post up a game you've played for say 50 turns or so. A lot of major mistakes are made in the first 50 turns leading to a "snowball effect" :)
     
  8. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    i understand...snowball like tom and jerry toons x)

    what kind of screen i must post? maps? graph or woot?
     
  9. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Initially, just the starting screenshot and maybe the leader if you are starting a new shadow game. If you are posting a later game, then some of the following screenshots in order of importance are nice but not all are really needed if you upload the save:

    1) overhead of empire
    2) Cap city screen and maybe some of your more productive cities, like a GP farm or Unit Pump
    3) Tech Screen
    4) Diplo Screen
    5) Demographics

    1 and 2 are usually good enough, but Tech is nice to have too. Another option on a play through is to provide screenshots as you progress. If you check some of the forum games like Kossin's Let's Play Hatty you can see how that is done. Of course, that is a bit more work, although the actually taking of the shots is easy. (Also, Kos's playthroughs are very educational as he is a very good player)
     
  10. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    ok, this evening i started a new game, and i provide these screen every 20 turn here.
     
  11. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    i've started a game : monarch \ medium and small \ huge \ Cesar Augustus

    this is the dawn of man



    good spot to found Rome, grain and abboundant sea resources, i start to build a warrior and research hunting

    achived hunting i go for archery, and finished the warrior i choose a work boat to boost 1 water tile.

    situation at turn 20 , finded a map in a barb village and exploring the country

     
  12. kossin

    kossin Deity

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    Are you certain you want warrior first?
     
  13. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

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    Press cntrl + r to turn resource bubbles on making them clear to people looking at the screenshots.

    Wet corn with 3 Clams and 2 Fish with Fishing as a starting tech? Thats a game winner right there! The only excuse not to Settle In Place (SIP) is that its too much food :lol:

    Move Warrior 1S to see if theres anything worth moving for, which isn't likely. If not SIP and build a workboat for a fish resource while working a plains hill tile.
    The long term goal for this city is to run lots of specialists to produce Great People.

    Hunting was pointless and early Archery is a bit overly paranoid, I would have gone for BW so my first Worker can get some production going.
     
  14. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    situation at turn 60

    i got the working boat that net up un fish tile after i go for an archer , i discovered archery and now point on sailing ( the right island had on it some stone and others goodies)

    a lion kill my exploring warrior, rome reach 3 pop

    i plann to obtain the archer and after go for a settler
     
  15. PAnz3r

    PAnz3r Chieftain

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    TURN 69 ( lol )

    this is the situation



    bulding the first settler

    now i save cause i must go out :d
     
  16. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    Panz - just a few notes here:

    1) I recommend getting opening advice from the start before making a move. In this case you would not make mistakes like building a warrior first or teching Hunting and Archery. Hunting is not always bad, but I rarely if ever tech Archery below Deity level. You can always pick it up later in a trade. (The exception being if I want to get HAs only or Keshiks, but then again you really don't know that until you see the map)

    2) I'm sorry you didn't take our advice about Huge maps.

    3) Seafood/coastal starts can be tricky, especially if you don't start with the Fishing tech. Also, you need to evaluate your land resources. Is X land resource > than Y seafood resource, the worker first. If that is not the case, then you might go with a WB if you have Fishing, or partial build a worker and switch to a workboat when Fishing arrives. Also, it may be important to evaluate whether that worker will have something to do after improving X land resource. Fish is a very strong food resource. So is wet corn. Since you start with Fishing, I'm inclined to go with a workboat first and working the plains hill to get it out fast - you won't grow but overall it's a better play. Plus, it looks like you have a lot of unworkable tiles until BW comes in, so the worker can be delayed a bit while you tech BW next. You can chop out another WB later.

    4) Generally, worker first is the best play unless you have the current situation you have of Fish seafood and unimprovable land until BW. Rare exceptions are non-coastal start that are heavily forested and you don't start with Mining.

    Side note on screenshots. I recommend either lowering the resolution a tad or putting the shots in Spoilers so they don't throw of the page...thanks

    Lastly, include the save.
     
  17. lymond

    lymond Rise Up! (Phoenix Style!) Hall of Fame Staff

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    my post came in after your second report. I recommend getting advice before playing each turnset. You may get some differing advice at times, but you can gather it and try playing with what you feel comfortable with it. We can then evaluate what you've done when you post the next report and offer advice on how to proceed.

    Post a save with each report

    edit: hmmm....unless my eyes deceive me, you have not yet built a worker. That's not good at all. You do realize it is the most important unit in the game, right?
     
  18. michmbk

    michmbk Emperor

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    Whoa - hunting & archery first??

    Two concepts to beat into your head - they're not always 100% right, but remembering these two things will help your first 20 turns get off to a better start:

    1. Irrigated corn is the best tile for a capital, and should be improved as soon as possible.

    2. Worker first.

    Again, can be situational - pigs are good too, and sometimes getting seafood online first makes more sense, but those two rules would help here. I would have started AG/BW here, and built a worker followed by a workboat or two & a warrior or two to escort the settler. I'd be willing to bet by turn 69 I wouldn't have teched hunting. With what you've explored, defense is barely necessary as 1 unit will fogbust west, and then you're only defending the north.

    I'd be ok with workboat first using the plains hill as well - that would at least speed along the worker.

    Post a 4000 BC save, and others will show you how to expand much faster. I'd love to play that start - what a great GP farm.

    EDIT: This is a huge map too - the problem you'll find is that the mistakes you've made in the early game are magnified later on - this is leaving more land for the AI to settle.

    You're size 4 and only working one improved tile to get that settler out. You should be working 4 improved tiles (probably corn, two fish and a clam or mine). Send that archer north to scout the land too.
     
  19. barbertje

    barbertje Prince

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    It's a shame you went for archery, while you don't really need it, because barb defense should be easy on this peninsula.
    Bronze working is really fast because:
    - your leader is imperialistic, so you get a 50% hammer bonus while building settlers, this
    bonus does not work for settlers built with seafood, but does work for chopping and whipping
    (pressing the hurry production button, below the draft button) and you need BW for that.
    - you have no bare hills, so no mines until you get BW

    Sailing is a nice tech to have here too, because your first cities will probably take a lot of work to connect by road, and it looks like a good map for the great lighthouse, but I think it can wait. You need writing for trade routes to your neighbours anyway.

    I would open this by teching Bronzeworking, while building
    - a workboat (using as much hammers as possible)
    - another workboat
    - a warrior
    - a worker when city is size 4, then whip
    - workboat #3 then another warrior
    - start settler when city is size 4 again, you can hurry the settler with chopping
    You might also whip the settler, if the city is working unimproved tiles at this point. It's
    a bit too much work for me to figure out improvement speed and chopping speed on Marathon
    to tell if this is good.

    A start with building a worker while teching Agriculture and then Bronzeworking is better
    on normal/epic speed and smaller maps. After farming the corn there are only a few idle turns
    before the worker can start chopping and mining, but with your settings it's better to start with
    workboats and grow to get more commerce (because AG takes 31 turns, and BW 52 turns with no extra commerce, and a worker takes only 30 turns to build.)
     
  20. Benginal

    Benginal Emperor

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    I never play big and small or medium and small. Are they known for having more food? This start is kind of ridiculous.
     

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