Competition Mechanics

[Blue Monkey]

This is the thread to discuss the mechanics of running the competition. Please restrict discussion to the hows, not the more detailed whats. For example, discuss how to make nominations not making specific entries. Once consensus on the mechanics is reached then carrying out the actual process will begin

• Should there be a committee to run the contest or do you want moderators to oversee it? IE to make & administer the nomination & the voting threads.
• How to pick categories ( there is a separate thread for suggesting actual categories) - poll, committee, or some other method?
• How to nominate individual entries (a separate thread for actual nominations will be established later on)
• How long should the polls be open?
• Should new award art be created or should we stick with the "cups"?
• Other, similar discussion topics about mechanics & methods for running the polls - not content of the polls themselves

 

[Balthasar]

I like the idea of designing new award Art (didn't even know that was possible)! That could be a little juried contest in itself.

I also suggest that the moderators designate a moderator (or committee of moderators) to oversee this whole project, so that there will be someone to make the inevitable executive decisions necessary to keep this on track.

 

[WildWeazel]

I had posted this in the other thread but I guess it belongs here. If we can identify a (too) large set of possible categories, there could be a multiple-choice poll to let everyone choose their favorite methods of categorization. It wouldn't need to include every individual category, but perhaps something like this for unit animations:

Moderator Action: moved discussion of specific categories to the to the Categories thread.

For clarity of the design & decision process try to keep mechanics of running the polls here & specific category suggestions in the other thread. Knowing where to post may be confusing at first. Ultimately this will help both clarity of discussions & keeping development of the celebration straightforward.

And another poll for static graphics, and so on.

I suppose there should be some mutually exclusive options (partitions) while others (superlatives) would be activated individually if they received plenty of votes.

 

[Plotinus]

For nominations: I suggest that anyone can nominate entries for any category, and that each person can nominate, say, up to two or three entries for each category. The only catch is that you can't nominate anything you've created yourself.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

For nominations: I suggest that anyone can nominate entries for any category, and that each person can nominate, say, up to two or three entries for each category. The only catch is that you can't nominate anything you've created yourself.

I disagree: I think you should have the opportunity to put forward what you feel is your best work into a category.

 

[Kyriakos]

Me too. The nominations by others can be about creators who no longer are part of the community/earth.

 

[Balthasar]

It might be a good idea to consider a tiered nomination process. We (Plotinus or a moderator's panel) would empanel a jury of, say, 10 respected creators in each category to each make 10 ranked nominations (excluding their own) from all of the posted units. The top 20 units from those lists would be culled, and a PM would be sent to everyone who has posted creations in those categories, and they would vote. The top 10 vote-getters from that vote would then be voted on by the general membership. This process would be repeated for each of the Database categories. Superlative and special categories (now being discussed in the other thread) would be chosen by the first tier from nominations in the consensus thread and voted on by the general membership. To allow enough time for all this, we'd have to get underway by the end of July, I'd say.

A process such as this would minimize a messy nomination debate, I think. Nothing would then prevent a creator from posting (in an "I'd like to see nominated.." thread) which of their own (or other's) creations they'd like to have particularly considered by the first panel.

 

[Pounder]

Me too. The nominations by others can be about creators who no longer are part of the community/earth.

I disagree: I think you should have the opportunity to put forward what you feel is your best work into a category.

That is not fair to the people no longer contributing, they have no choice, so why should we have a choice.

 

[Blue Monkey]

Staff Involvement

I also suggest that the moderators designate a moderator (or committee of moderators) to oversee this whole project, so that there will be someone to make the inevitable executive decisions necessary to keep this on track.

We already have a thread in the staff forum set up for general discussion of moderator involvement in this process. Once there is general consensus on the degree of our involvement we'll make the appropriate selections.

In the mean time we'll do our best to keep clear which are official statements / actions as moderators and which are contributions to the discussion as members of the community. anytime that's not clear please ask.


Organizing The Polls

I had posted this in the other thread but I guess it belongs here. If we can identify a (too) large set of possible categories, there could be a multiple-choice poll to let everyone choose their favorite methods of categorization.

This is one of the main reasons I asked Balthasar to keep the OP of the categories thread updated with all the suggestions. At the appropriate time we'll have formal decisions making for each aspect of the process - keeping the whole thing based in the community rather than arbitrary decisions by staff.

I suppose there should be some mutually exclusive options (partitions) while others (superlatives) would be activated individually if they received plenty of votes.

We'll try to set up the poll(s) on the mechanics to include all options.


Making Nominations

For nominations: I suggest that anyone can nominate entries for any category, and that each person can nominate, say, up to two or three entries for each category. The only catch is that you can't nominate anything you've created yourself.

I disagree: I think you should have the opportunity to put forward what you feel is your best work into a category.

Me too. The nominations by others can be about creators who no longer are part of the community/earth.

My personal preferences - it's okay to:

• nominate your own work - once per category
• nominate the work of any one else - presently active or not
• make multiple nominations within categories for the work of others

 

[Blue Monkey]

Responding to cross-post:

That is not fair to the people no longer contributing, they have no choice, so why should we have a choice.

This is a good reason to allow multiple nominations. We have a mutual responsibility to past contributors. At the same time there's no reason to slight anyone's sense of their own best work. Among other things it may bring something to light that has slipped our minds or was not appropriate for past polls.

 

[Blue Monkey]

So many suggestions for various categories suggest the following -

Should we take an initial poll with questions like = "Can the same thing be nominated in more than one category?", "Should there be lifetime / Decade of achievement / hall of fame awards?", etc.

Not suggesting we do this immediately - just think about it as a way to then focus the individual category suggestions.

 

[Blue Monkey]

We (Plotinus or a moderator's panel) would empanel a jury of, say, 10 respected creators in each category ...

Deciding on that could be messy. Like the tiered idea on general principles despite that - maybe not the specific mechanism.

To allow enough time for all this, we'd have to get underway by the end of July, I'd say.

Agreed.

 

[Balthasar]

Deciding on that could be messy. Like the tiered idea on general principles despite that - maybe not the specific mechanism.

Yeah, the numbers are less important than the idea of tiering it. I'm not privy to 'moderator world', but, really? Choosing a jury would be messy? Yikes.

 

[Rob (R8XFT)]

That is not fair to the people no longer contributing, they have no choice, so why should we have a choice.

It was their choice to stop contributing as it was mine (and others') choice to produce stuff year after year for Civ III.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think that there should be some economy with the categories; the fewer there are the better in my view. Else it can become a photographic contest (the person who will win will be known from before it even begins).

So i am not sure if more than a few categories for units are needed. After all the decade of achievement/ unit/pcx/x of the decade can compensate for the loss of the ultra-specialized categories.

I agree with Blue Monkey's idea about a mixed way of choosing which work gets in; some can be self-nominated (perhaps we can have the rule that the person who nominates something of his own must have won at least 1 contest in the years the contests were active?) some can be nominated by others.

Remember also that each poll has only 25 options (iirc) and even though they can theoretically be split into groups, again i suggest we keep things tidy and economical. 25 choices are already more than we ever had (i do not think any yearly contest had more than 15 up to now).

Moderator Action: category suggestions moved to the categories thread. Please do separate posts to help all of us keep the different discussions clear and easy to follow.


I also think that although more than one entries by a person per contest could be allowed, it is perhaps advisable to limit things to only 1 per person, for at least two reasons:

-If someone has more than one entries obviously in the best case for him he will have all votes towards him be granted to the one of the two. In all other cases the vote will be directed to both, and this might not only limit his ability to win but also prevent it utterly.

-At some categories some people dominate. It will be in bad taste though in my view to see hordes of entries by one and then islands of entries for most of the others.

Lastly i would like to say that i am thrilled with this contest idea. Even if i end up not winning anything it will be interesting to see the parade of the best gfx that this community has produced I have some to nominate by others as well, the unit contest in particular would be utter hell, unless more tentacle-oriented creatures manage to dominate

 

[Blue Monkey]

Remember also that each poll has only 25 options (iirc) and even though they can theoretically be split into groups, again i suggest we keep things tidy and economical. 25 choices are already more than we ever had (i do not think any yearly contest had more than 15 up to now).

AFAIK this is correct. If we do an effective job of designing the polls with multiple categories we shouldn't reach that limit. Multiple categories should also let the more prolific creators be well represented without the need to compete against themselves in a single poll.

 

[Kyriakos]

I think it has to be decided just what the scope of this contest is.

Will it last for one month? Will it last for many months? (advisable if there are many categories) And if so, when will it start?

I am not, in principle, against multiple categories, but then we need a contest that spans at least three months, possibly August, September and October (where the main event can be). Otherwise we will be filled with polls and this will stagnate the forum.
I think that we even could have some polls even earlier, if the nominations finish.

But either way i vote that we have a logical and smart number of categories, not 10 here and 1 there.

Also i am not sure what the decade achievement idea is entirely about; i gather we won't be vaguely voting for a person, but for particular creations. If so again i bring back my idea that those who are nominated have to have won at least a number of contests, OR at least one yearly contest. I think the latter is less fair since there will be fewer people, but we should begin discussing these issues sometime soon.

 

[Takhisis]

It was their choice to stop contributing as it was mine (and others') choice to produce stuff year after year for Civ III.

But this doesn't affect the quality of their work. It's already been done.
Some of use leave for extended periods (I did, for abotu two years) and not because we just choose to, you know.
A couple guys are even dead, but their work isn't. Come on, Rob!

 

[Blue Monkey]

I think it has to be decided just what the scope of this contest is.

Will it last for one month? Will it last for many months? (advisable if there are many categories) And if so, when will it start?

I am not, in principle, against multiple categories, but then we need a contest that spans at least three months, possibly August, September and October (where the main event can be).

How did you decide on 3 months? It would help the rest of us to know your reasoning.

Otherwise we will be filled with polls and this will stagnate the forum.
I think that we even could have some polls even earlier, if the nominations finish.

But either way i vote that we have a logical and smart number of categories, not 10 here and 1 there.

Polls can be kept in this subforum with one general announcement thread stickied in the main forum.

If so again i bring back my idea that those who are nominated have to have won at least a number of contests, OR at least one yearly contest. I think the latter is less fair since there will be fewer people, but we should begin discussing these issues sometime soon.

How should we handle the many worthy creations that lost out to another entry? Those that for various reasons were never entered? Those within categories that have not had monthly polls?

 

[Kyriakos]

How did you decide on 3 months? It would help the rest of us to know your reasoning.

"Three" is a usual number to break things in, it is elegant and simple. Also it would help create, in my view, a prolonged festive atmosphere in the forums, and will disable any possibility that there co-exist many polls at the same time which on its part would definitely limit participation or at least discussion in their threads.

Polls can be kept in this subforum with one general announcement thread stickied in the main forum.

They could, on my part i would prefer if they are in the main forum, easier for everyone to follow and all will see them even if they do not visit the forum often.

How should we handle the many worthy creations that lost out to another entry? Those that for various reasons were never entered? Those within categories that have not had monthly polls?

My proposition is not that only entries which have won something would be entered, but that only entries of people who won something would be nominated by themselves (in regards to the general polls) and that, more crucially, in the decade achievement only entries of people who have won either a set amount of times, or a yearly should be entered. Of course we can make exceptions for creations/creators who were around solely or mainly before the last 5 years that (i think) the contests have been running.

My reasoning for this is that the decade achievement awards should be contested by people who by some standard (which can be discussed) deserve them, and not by comets of the community. It is the same logic followed in RL awards given for some lifelong achievement.

Edit: But i think i will probably take a back seat to all this. Already i fear that i might have sounded too elitist/isolationist even though i did not mean that at all. I hope that at least i provided some ideas to think about, and am looking forward to the shaping of the various mechanisms of this festivity