Complete New Game - Opinion thread

[DevilHell]

This new expansion is changing SO MANY mechanics, for good of course, they sound terrific, but I see a lot of patches coming, or at least a lot of time before it is released.

BIG changes:
-NO MORE GOLD ON RIVERS NOR ON COAST
This is a huge economical penalty, it seems economy is now based on trade, which now requires caravels, which I guess requires production, so there will be an unbalance between gold and production.
-Different cultural victory and Polish trait
My opinion on the polish trait is that it will get nerfed, although cultural victory may be quite different now, but it is however really OP in my opinion.
-Trade system
Some Civs will have to get changed, like Arabs for example.
The Civs that get changes will get balanced with the new system and Civs, but some Civs with indirectly related traits to gold or even Civs with unrelated traits to gold or trade will be unbalanced in front of the new civs, in my opinion.

It's just that there are so many changes, it makes CiV a very diplomatic game, which I find great, but some features relevant to heavy diplomatic games miss, so what I try to say is that such changes are going to result in a lot of unbalanced mechanics.

What is your opinion, I would like to know.

 

[ShahJahanII]

This is a huge economical penalty, it seems economy is now based on trade, which now requires caravels, which I guess requires production, so there will be an unbalance between gold and production.

I think you mean caravans here. We don't quite know that these require production, but I believe that there was a source that said rivers themselves could be used as trade routes, so Firaxis hasn't just made them completely useless. I'm sure they will compensate for the loss in direct gold in some other way.

 

[AriochIV]

Culture victory no longer has to do with how many Social Policies you unlock, so I don't see Solidarity as being particularly overpowered.

 

[codepoet]

Agreed - how some of the existing Civ and their perks get changed as a result of all this is particularly interesting to me.
Doesn't seem fitting to speculate on the ripple effects of change we really only know by name and extra brief description... but I am excited!
I also think the Ottoman's perks could (should) be changed. Barbary Pirates were more about collecting proceeds off trade routes (and holding countries ransom) than about capturing ships like the trait currently stresses.

 

[fuzzatron717]

BIG changes:
NO MORE GOLD ON RIVERS

No more gold on rivers!! Is the confirmed if it is it is a very bad choice even with the trade system rivers have better been given a new bonus then like +1 food for grassland and plain tiles because rivers are so important. Imagine the world if it had no rivers whatsoever.

 

[codepoet]

No more gold on rivers!! Is the confirmed if it is it is a very bad choice even with the trade system rivers have better been given a new bonus then like +1 food for grassland and plain tiles because rivers are so important. Imagine the world if it had no rivers whatsoever.

I would take this to mean you still get extra food and building perks that require rivers... but the trade system and gold regarding rivers are being revamped.

 

[Petiscator]

Where did they say they would remove gold from coastal tiles? I recall the non-gold riversides, but I don't remember anything they said about coasts. Can anyone confirm this to me with a link or something? Thanks!

To OP: It indeed looks like a totally different game! So many new stuff, makes the Gold Edition look so... weak

 

[Calouste]

Culture victory no longer has to do with how many Social Policies you unlock, so I don't see Solidarity as being particularly overpowered.

Most likely policies are going to be a bit cheaper as well. We're going to have 9 policy trees plus three ideologies, that probably have more than five tenets each (three levels with multiple choices per level). No use putting all that in the game if you can only use a fraction of it.

 

[Matthew.]

It used to be in Civ V that settling along a sea coast or along a river gave you free gold. We’ve taken that gold out of the game and now you actually have to earn it by creating these trade routes.

From the RPS interview linked up top. A single line, but it sounds like the tile yields (+1 gold on river tiles and gold from ocean tiles) are completely removed.

Of course this just opens up even more questions: Are luxury tile yields still in? Are there any bonuses to settling on river other than growth? Are trading posts removed as well?

 

[Greizer85]

Removing gold from coasts? What are you smoking, Holmes? I can understand river gold removal, as rivers will still add to growth via better farms. But coasts? If anything, they needed to ADD +1 gold so it'd actually be worth it to settle on the coast. Those trade routes better kick some major butt in order to make up for this... I hope they test this thoroughly and know what they're doing.

 

[kingchris20]

Where did they say they would remove gold from coastal tiles? I recall the non-gold riversides, but I don't remember anything they said about coasts. Can anyone confirm this to me with a link or something? Thanks!

To OP: It indeed looks like a totally different game! So many new stuff, makes the Gold Edition look so... weak

"It used to be in Civ V that settling along a sea coast or along a river gave you free gold. We’ve taken that gold out of the game and now you actually have to earn it by creating these trade routes." - Ed Beach --- http://www.rockpapershotgun.com/2013/03/15/civilization-v-brave-new-world-preview/

Although this states that it is removing the "free" +1 gold from "water" tiles.....It doesn't implicate that buildings/wonders can't make gold from water tiles available....

 

[Calouste]

Removing gold from coasts? What are you smoking, Holmes? I can understand river gold removal, as rivers will still add to growth via better farms. But coasts? If anything, they needed to ADD +1 gold so it'd actually be worth it to settle on the coast. Those trade routes better kick some major butt in order to make up for this... I hope they test this thoroughly and know what they're doing.

Allegedly, you start out with one land trade route and one sea trade route, and of course you need to settle on the coast to be able to use the latter.

 

[Avatan]

Allegedly, you start out with one land trade route and one sea trade route, and of course you need to settle on the coast to be able to use the latter.

Yep, this could be the seaside start boost we have all been craving for!

 

[Ikael]

I somehow feel vindicated to see all these changes and what is, in essence, an almost new game altogether.

Civ V vainilla is a horrible game, and G&K, albeit substantially better, suffers from very deep structural flaws related to its basic game design and conception.

The fact that they have had to trow into a pyre a lot of its fundamental tennets and gameplay concepts in order to improve it (cultural victory, economic system, diplomacy altogether, etc) speaks louder than any rant of mine or harsh review, really.

But I celebrate the fact that they are able to embark in such a daring process of creative destruction. The less this expansion resembles the mess that was the original Civ V and the more it scraps its many ******ed design decisions and ideas, the better.

I cannot wait to see a civilization V being born anew gloriously over the ashes of its inferior previous self. Bring it on, Ed Beach!

 

[Gucumatz]

I get the removal of gold from rivers - but I feel even with a trading ship the extra gold for sea tiles is a very much needed feature. Sea tiles will still be less desirable

 

[mitsho]

I feel the gold from river starts has just been moved back, so to speak. When before it was free, you now have to do something (related to trade routes) to get the bonus.

Sounds fine to me. But as always, we lack info on it

 

[Eagle Pursuit]

I just hope the trade route rewards are better than sea/river gold because sea/river gold was hardly disrupted and very reliable, but it sounds like trade route revenue has higher risk involved plus you have to invest in guarding the routes.

 

[Deggial]

There might be a problem nevertheless:

In order to use rivers and costs for trading, you will have to find your trading partners (with coastal cities founded) or found your own second city for a national trade route. (Delayed city sprawl for NC might not be possible any more. Early wonders will have to be delayed, too, as the liberty-settler migth come too late now.)

No second city, no money due to trade. But there are still buildings to pay for and barbarians to fight. How to maintain your infrastructure and your early army without the "easy gold" from river tiles?

 

[kaspergm]

I'm a bit surprised if they remove the gold from normal ocean tiles. As others have said, settling on coast is already a pretty dubious bonus, and while coastal starts can be acceptable because they will normally be compensated by lots of Fish and luxes, regular coastal cities will seem even less attractive. I'm looking forward to see how this plays out, perhaps there have been made other changes to make coastal cities more attractive.

 

[Louis XXIV]

Does anyone read Ed Beach's comment a bit more narrowly? I read it as removing the gold from underneath cities when settled on a river.