1. We have added a Gift Upgrades feature that allows you to gift an account upgrade to another member, just in time for the holiday season. You can see the gift option when going to the Account Upgrades screen, or on any user profile screen.
    Dismiss Notice

Comprehensive Leader : Pericles, the underrated Greek

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Strategy & Tips' started by AlienSexFilth, May 21, 2009.

  1. AlienSexFilth

    AlienSexFilth Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Athens,Greece
    *ARTICLE STILL UNDER CONSTRUCTION-FEEL FREE THOUGH TO COMMENT*

    When Civ players hear the word "Greece", Alexander pops to mind as a war-monger, backstabber and generally annoying AI. This has led (I believe) for most of us to ignore the Greek (or "Hellenic" if we wish to be more accurate) Civilization and more than that, to ignore one of the best leaders imho in this game : Pericles.

    Who is Pericles you might ask (beside a guy who always wears a helmet)? Well, Pericles is one of the few figures in human history who has connected his name with a Golden Age (The Golden Age of Pericles). He was ranked First Citizen of Athens City-state for most time of his life, achieved the military rank of "Strategos" (which means General) and during his time in Athens he promoted one of the most radical Democracy ever to be seen by mankind. A man of great learning and culture, he supported and financed the building of Parthenon in Acropolis. To be short, he was one of the greatest men ever to live, not only in Hellas but also the world.
    (if you wish to learn more about him, check the following link :http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pericles)

    On to the game now, I think that Pericles is one of the most powerfull leaders, easily in Top10, maybe even Top5. Let's take a closer look..

    Pericles is Creative and Philosophical, having two of the better traits of the game.

    Creative gives +2 :culture: on every City, helping out to quickly pop borders w/o religion or Stonehenge.
    Creative also allows 3 buildings to be built super fast : Library, Theater and Coloseum.
    All 3 buildings give a decent ammount of culture (adding up to +10Culture/turn) and also specialist slots for 2 Scientists and 4Artists, two kind of specialists which help out for bulbing key techs or getting cultural victories.
    Libraries and Theaters are also buildings you need to built en-masse in order to unlock two key National Wonders, Oxford (by unlocking universities) and Globe Theate, the two NW that help most with Science and Culture (but also War under Nationhood)

    Philosophical on the other hand gives +100% Great People points and allows cheap University. The bonus to GP helps you to get the GP you need faster while the University further helps you with :science: and to unlock (once again as with Creative), Oxford.

    By now you should have noticed some things very interresting : Pericles is geared towards a Specialist Economy, arguably one of the strongest types of economies early on which can help you establish a strong early position and -thus- ensure win.
    Combined with Creative, you get cheap Libraries+Theaters to run more specialists even out of Caste System and can unlock quicker than the average civs the Globe Theater for your civlization and Oxford University.
    Actually, Pericles is unique among all leaders as Cre/Phi, allowing quick building for the prerequisite buildings (Library&University) to unlock Oxford, making him able to contest for the fastest Oxford ever build.
    Oxford -again- allows you to run extra science specialists, which further gets synergy with Philosophical trait. Quite interresting I'd say, if not just for the records...

    So far we've seen how Creative and Philosophical blend together in a way VERY few traits do.

    Let's further proceed on getting a closer look to the Hellenic (Greek) Civilization.

    The Greeks get Phalanx as UU and Odeon as UB.
    The Phalanx is an Axeman with a bonus vs his natural counter, the Chariot, which makes him (imho) one of the strongest UU. Ever play against Persia or Egypt multiplayer? The Phalanx can make Immortals/War Chariots cry like little girls(History Channel confirmed).
    It also becomes available only with Bronze Working which is nice, since early UU helps to shape a victory early rather than late. Bronze Working is a key tech either way and everybody seems to target it usually in the first 5 techs they research. Bronze working also unlocks Slavery civic, arguably the best production civic early on and allows chopping for futher production bonuses (wink-wink, nudge-nudge, say-no-more-say-no-more! Now I get it how Greece managed the Parthenon + Oracle gambit! By teching BW first L0L!)

    The Odeon on the other hand is an interresting building.. It's a Coloseum replacement with +2:happyness ,+3 :culture:/turn and 2 :artist: specialist slots.
    It's no Rathaus,nor Ikhanda,neither Forum and not a Stock Exchange but... it's DIRT CHEAP for a Creative leader!
    It provides one of the BEST early on Happyness bonuses (when happyness is an issue pre-monarchy) of +2 and is very cheap to get. Coupled with CRE, cheap libraries and (later on) cheap Theaters, you are looking at a very nice ammount of early :culture: in all your cities which will help with quick cultural defense and skipping the ugly walls (who needs bricks in line when you can show off better than your neighbour?)! What is important though is that Odeon is available with Construction, another Classical age Tech, which also unlocks the key to every war in Civ : SIEGE!
    From intressting I think we reached the point where "intriguing" is the word best fitting. Good eh?

    Let's give a quick look to the techs now :
    Greece starts with Hunting and Fishing, two of the better starting techs -if not the best- since you get to start with a scout for quick -ehm- scouting (duh!) of your surrounding to check where you could get special resources and nice places to settle (Bronze and Dyes pop to mind, to unlock your UU and get +1happyness from a cheap theater..) and can also build a fishing boat which is arguably the best opening move for a capital if it is a port with fishfood.. which is not very unlikely.
    Now, the UU is only 2 techs away (mining&BW) and the UB is only 5(AH/Writing/Mathematics/Masonry -pre-requisite for-Construction). Quite early and nice to have a great advantage over your neighbours in Classical age!

    Both UB&UU are only 7 (!!!) techs away from your starting techs. The most expensive one is Mathematics. So, if we go Mining->BW->Writing->ALPHABET instead and have 2 science specialists, we will have a GS to bulb Maths by the time we get Alphabet done, which in turn we can trade arround to get Masonry and have a headstart on very early catapults..

    So, let's review so far : Pericles has the tools for a strong economy with specialists (scientists and artists) early on, is 7 techs away from a dominant UU of his age with no counter AND catapults and also gets as a bonus a cheap building that helps building culture and dealing with happyness issues, further giving +2happyness with two ticks of the culture slider up (something that will not harass your teching rate much), further helping with early vertical growth...
    So Pericles is 7 techs away from becoming a dominant leader of the Classical age.
    Mathematics though can be bulbed by a Great Scientist (which you can get very quick due to cheap libraries and being Philosophical) if you have teched Alphabet before and Mathematics is also the most expensive tech to research! Getting Alphabet early is always a strong move, so you can trade and help with the backfill! The synergy makes me shiver.

    In short, Pericles is geared and built as one of the greatest Classical age leaders with an edge on power teching with specialists & lightbulbing techs, a great UU with no counter which can tie up very nice with catapults to lay destruction to your foes and get what you need. Cream on top is the UB which with 20% on the culture slider you can get a scary +4 happyness boost to deal with WW, slavery hate or just vertical growth, according to the situation..

    You might say now that this is a one-trick-pony. Think again..
    Cheap Theaters allow for a very quick Globe Theater. GT gets unlocked by Nationalism, a very strong tech which allows drafting via Nationhood.
    The problem to Drafting? Happyness, which you have countered allready with both the UB and the cheap Theater.
    How to get to Nationalism quickly? Beeline to Liberalism, which is always a strong move and very easy to do with a Philosophical leader. Pericles happens to is one..
    On the path to Liberalism you will also be able to bulb Education to get a cheap Universities (thanks Philo again) and have a very quick start on Oxford to further help you with Teching.

    So, Pericles is a Classical age leader with strong economic traits, key cheap buildnings (UB being one of them), very good UU, good tech synergy and good way to get vertical growth if a peacefull approach is decided in the early game OR fight the War Weariness if you find yourself boxed in or in need to destroy an early civ. You can establish a winning position during the Classical age which you can further lock up during the renessaince (rifle drafting), having most of the key buidlings cheap for you, most important techs easy to bulb with a philo leader and also the key to help early vertical growth and fight slavery and WW.

    Soon, a public game will follow to display why Pericles is (imho) one of the best leaders in the game and hopefully get a bit more love from the Civ community.

    The game will be on Monarch difficulty (my level atm), Epic speed(I am a marathon player myself but don't want to abuse early Phalanx on that speed) and a Terra standard map (the one I find most enjoyable).
    Stay tuned, I hope I won't fail it miserably and become a lol-pointer in the community (albeit, with style) :p
     
  2. nanomage

    nanomage Longbowman

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2008
    Messages:
    710
    Location:
    msk, rf
    Yes, i agree that Pericles is a strong leader to play with, and especially strong with SE.
    I do not think he is "underrated" - i rate him very high.
    But, great part of what you have written (about civ of course, not in actual history) applies to alex as well. They share Phi trait and Odeon UU, alex having a stronger Phalanx. Crucial library asap in high-food city is chopped anyway, and, although discount on odeons and theatres is great, they are cheap even without it.
     
  3. Windsor

    Windsor Flawless

    Joined:
    Feb 14, 2008
    Messages:
    1,386
    Location:
    Norway
    Construction requires masonry so the UB is 5 techs away, not 4 :)
     
  4. AlienSexFilth

    AlienSexFilth Warlord

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2008
    Messages:
    126
    Location:
    Athens,Greece
    Woops! missed that as well... used to tech Alphabet first so usually I net it with a trade and never notice... good point though, will put it up..
    ...and fixed
     
  5. champ82

    champ82 Immortal Ruler

    Joined:
    Nov 30, 2007
    Messages:
    517
    Location:
    South Korea
    Pericles is great. First emperor win, only emperor win on normal time speed.

    He's the bulb king and culture king.

    I luckily had marble near me, I can't state how much that helped.

    Won that one with a CE though.
     
  6. gfm

    gfm Refuses to Talk!!!

    Joined:
    Mar 6, 2008
    Messages:
    120
    Location:
    Paris Area
    I have to agree, Pericles is both strong and versatile. Even though I usually depend more often on cottages for :research: than specialists, the Creative/Philosophical trait combination allow very early Great Scientists, which can be used for either bulbing, settling or academies.

    Although I never tried, he looks very strong for a Cultural Victory.
     
  7. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    955
    Pericles is one of my favorite leaders too, although I strongly disagree with some of your fundamental points ^^.
     
  8. oyzar

    oyzar Have quit civ/forums

    Joined:
    Oct 7, 2006
    Messages:
    6,923
    Location:
    Norway
    Who have said pericles is underrated? He is one of the few leaders to be frequently featured in deity games, certainly not because he is weak...
     
  9. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    You are underestimating Pericles, he's not in the top 10 or top 5, but probably in the top 2. ;)
     
  10. Hereditary Rule

    Hereditary Rule Warlord

    Joined:
    Dec 13, 2007
    Messages:
    294
    One of my favs - not underrated at all. If anything, Alexander is underrated on these boards as AGG is widely viewed as a very weak trait.
     
  11. Crusher1

    Crusher1 King

    Joined:
    Feb 9, 2009
    Messages:
    955
    Well Pericles gets away with 2 of the worst starting combos possible because of CRE, while Alex can have an especially difficult, long, slow, and problematic opening ;)
     
  12. jm_dracolich

    jm_dracolich Chieftain

    Joined:
    Apr 4, 2006
    Messages:
    45
    I agree that Pericles is one of the best leaders i the game. Probably my top favorite actually. :)

    I find it amusing though when you say that you can have so much culture that you don't need walls, since Pericles built the Long Walls in Athens during the Peloponnesian Wars. :lol: I think it's a great point, and I usually don't end up building any walls with him either; I just find it historically ironic.
     
  13. fed1943

    fed1943 Emperor

    Joined:
    Nov 28, 2005
    Messages:
    1,185
    Location:
    Lisbon
    Pericles is very strong and the strongest for a cultural victory.
     
  14. Ghpstage

    Ghpstage Deity

    Joined:
    Jan 15, 2009
    Messages:
    2,944
    Location:
    Bristol, England
    Pericles is a great leader, I personally find his traits most useful for rexxing.

    Haha quite true, he's also probably best for the most GP before 1AD award.

    The Odeon has a hidden bonus too, its one of only 2 :culture: producing buildings you can capture, the other being a Terrace. This is because buildings that don't produce culture (in this case Colloseum) have a chance to survie city capture (and be changed into your UB!), wheras :culture: producing buildings like monuments and libraries can't!
    I'm unsure if you can capture colloseums from the Greeks due to the same rule...:confused:

    This is very handy for warmongering, as in some of your captured cities the borders will reinforce very quickly, especially as you can get artists right after capture without Caste System:eek:
    It is more much noticeable with Alex though.

    The UU... is only really useful in MP, in SP I've never seen the bonus amount to anything noteworthy.
     
  15. Gliese 581

    Gliese 581 Your average civ junkie

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2007
    Messages:
    2,503
    Location:
    Sweden
    CIV, denying hubris since 2007.
     
  16. rfcfanatic

    rfcfanatic Mercantilist

    Joined:
    May 20, 2012
    Messages:
    728
    Location:
    In isolation
    Philosophical leader and Slavery - that's the biggest joke in civ 4. What use of these scientist specialists while they all get whipped away?
     
  17. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,145
    Location:
    Minnesota
    Wait so one of the strongest leaders in the game is under rated? Since when did Aggressive become more over rated than Creative? Creative is one of the 3 traits tied for 3rd in terms of power.
     
  18. ben-jammin

    ben-jammin Emperor

    Joined:
    Jan 12, 2011
    Messages:
    1,436
    I think the synergy it has with philosophical bumps it up quite a bit. There is no leader that can have his first GS as early as Pericles.
     
  19. The Oz-Man

    The Oz-Man Enter: The VAIKE!

    Joined:
    Jun 1, 2007
    Messages:
    929
    Location:
    Dayton, Ohio
    I'd say since 2009 when this thread was first posted. ;)
     
  20. Zx Zero Zx

    Zx Zero Zx Deity

    Joined:
    Apr 23, 2009
    Messages:
    2,145
    Location:
    Minnesota
    ............................................________........................
    ....................................,.-‘”...................``~.,..................
    .............................,.-”...................................“-.,............
    .........................,/...............................................”:,........
    .....................,?......................................................\,.....
    .................../...........................................................,}....
    ................./......................................................,:`^`..}....
    .............../...................................................,:”........./.....
    ..............?.....__.........................................:`.........../.....
    ............./__.(.....“~-,_..............................,:`........../........
    .........../(_....”~,_........“~,_....................,:`........_/...........
    ..........{.._$;_......”=,_.......“-,_.......,.-~-,},.~”;/....}...........
    ...........((.....*~_.......”=-._......“;,,./`..../”............../............
    ...,,,___.\`~,......“~.,....................`.....}............../.............
    ............(....`=-,,.......`........................(......;_,,-”...............
    ............/.`~,......`-...............................\....../\...................
    .............\`~.*-,.....................................|,./.....\,__...........
    ,,_..........}.>-._\...................................|..............`=~-,....
    .....`=~-,_\_......`\,.................................\........................
    ...................`=~-,,.\,...............................\.......................
    ................................`:,,...........................`\..............__..
    .....................................`=-,...................,%`>--==``.......
    ........................................_\..........._,-%.......`\...............
    ...................................,<`.._|_,-&``................`\..............


    Necro trolled.
     

Share This Page