Comprehensive List of Change; or "Why should I play RifE?"

[Luckmann]

Why hello there.

I've been a long-time fan of Fall From Heaven 2 in general, and Orbis is particular - especially with the LENA modmodmod (which is since defunct). On the other hand, I always had a strong dislike for FF, which I always felt broke from the general feeling of FfH2 and mostly just added "more, more, MOAR" at an ever-increasing rate. I could go on a tirade about that, but let's not.

With this in mind, I have two questions.

First, is there a comprehensive list of changes between base FfH2 and RifE? Exactly what am I getting into and how confused will I be?

Second, why should I play RifE? What's the sales pitch? Sell it to me. I'm a customer, I've just walked into your used cars lot, and I look like a sucker.

 

[JujZe]

Dragons!!

 

[Meldon]

RifE is a feature-rich modmod, with many new civs and leaders leading to the Emergent Leader mechanic which gives some leaders a single unique trait. It is fully modular now, so that modmodmoders can easily add their own changes to the base RifE platform and other players can easily add/disable them. it's still in the works, with many completely new features as well as reworks of existing features, such as a complete overhaul of the magic system. The only downside is stability, but the team is constantly working on that, and most game crashes can now be solved by just reopening the game and loading the last save.

I'd have more but I just woke up and can't really think right

 

[Valkrionn]

Why hello there.

I've been a long-time fan of Fall From Heaven 2 in general, and Orbis is particular - especially with the LENA modmodmod (which is since defunct). On the other hand, I always had a strong dislike for FF, which I always felt broke from the general feeling of FfH2 and mostly just added "more, more, MOAR" at an ever-increasing rate. I could go on a tirade about that, but let's not.

With this in mind, I have two questions.

First, is there a comprehensive list of changes between base FfH2 and RifE? Exactly what am I getting into and how confused will I be?

Second, why should I play RifE? What's the sales pitch? Sell it to me. I'm a customer, I've just walked into your used cars lot, and I look like a sucker.

First off, I'd like to apologize if I'm too brief in my post; I'm at school, between classes. Have class from 9am to 8:15pm on Mondays and Wednesdays, which explains why I've stopped posting much those days (Wireless at the college filters CFC threads; If I steal a lan cable, it doesn't. Don't ask me why. ).

Second, keep in mind Rise from Erebus originated as a Fall Further modmod, so many of FF's features are in the mod (though many have also been changed, or even removed!).

For our differences over FfH...

• New civilizations!
  • Austrin - Explorers, able complete a unique ritual which allows their recon units to found cities! Their cities automatically become regional capitals, so you are able to effectively create and use a far-flung empire.
  • Archos - A civilization warped by it's proximity to spiders during the Age of Ice, the Archos are able to spawn Spiders and Scorpions, as well as create a wide variety of UUs.
  • Chislev - A civilization reminiscent of Native Americans, with an anti-orc twist. They are fairly bland atm, but will be receiving a large boost with 1.4.
  • Cualli - Your evil lizardmen, here. Will also be receiving a new mechanic.
  • Dural - A civilization of scholars, able to study, but not truly follow, religions.
  • Frozen - A summonable civ focusing on the Ice Sphere. They will be limited to White Hand only.
  • Jotnar - Giant civilization. Massive overhaul planned, rather OP atm.
  • Legion of D'tesh - A powerful Necromancer and his shambling horde of undead. Nuff said.
  • Mazatl -Your noble lizards. Recently updated to allow you to follow religions.
  • Mechanos - Steampunk civilization from Orbis
  • Scions of Patria - Everyone knows these guys.
• Changed civilizations!
  • Amurites - Units able to gain spellspheres on creation, level based on certain UBs. Adept able to upgrade to non-arcane unitlines, it's upgrades able to gain Channeling 2... An entire civilization of potential fire2 mages? Yes, please!
  • Bannor - Focusing on the commander mechanic; All units can promote along a Chain of Command, ultimately becoming a General with the potential for dozens of underlings. In addition, they gain access to the MultipleProduction mechanic, allowing them to produce more than one item in a turn... Assuming you have the hammers for it.
  • Clan of Embers - Goblins have been removed from the civ (and will re-enter as a civ of their own!), as has the Warrens. Instead, they gain the MultipleProduction mechanic, and the Agoge, granting +40% military production. Overall, this pushes them into more of a midgame civ, as opposed to early.
  • Doviello - At peace with Animals, able to spawn various animals in their cities, units cost no upkeep after successful combat and are able to steal weapons, can duel units to pass xp to the victor, and new units gain xp on creation, based on the average amount of xp units of their unitcombat possess.
  • Elohim - Lose Tolerant, gain Pilgrimages.
  • Grigori - Adventurers are spawned separately from GP, with all UBs providing towards it. They gain the Homestead improvement, which grants the Statesman specialist to the city working the tile. This specialist ALSO provides Adventurer points.
  • Khazad - Gain Dwarven Mines, powerful but limited improvements.
  • Malakim - Adapted to life in deserts, gain trade bonuses, unique improvements, and multiple new UUs.
  • Sheaim - Gain a new warrior UU, earlier access to the Planar Gate, and a boost for Hell terrain; Hell increases the planar gate spawn.
  • Sidar - Gain a new Mist mechanic.

That's all I have time for atm, have to get to my next class. Will reply with more later.

 

[Valkrionn]

Okay, while I wait on Java to start... Let me explain some of the new mechanics.

• Split Barbarian Factions
  • Barbarians - Undergoing a massive change... We will be able to spawn specific groups of units. Any unit, or a random unit of a specific unitclass, with various promotions. Even a commander. It will make for some very interesting barbarians.
  • Animals - Animals have been expanded (toned down from what they were in older versions, however!)
  • Demons - Demons spawn in Hell, at a rate based on the AC.
• Cultural Control
  • Improvements (Specifically: Forts) are able to generate culture for your civilization. This is now done in the DLL, rather than via spell, and the AI understands the mechanic. All forts will have a Fort Commander, for which many civs have UUs.
• Commander/Minion mechanics
  • Rather than add themselves to units, Great Commanders are now able to command them. They have a set Command Range and Command Limit, and their minions gain special promotions based on those of the commander. In addition, when a minion wins combat they pass a portion of their xp to the commander.
  • Commanders once again spawn from combat.
• Ethical Alignments
  • We have added an entirely new alignment axis, Lawful/Neutral/Chaotic. This adds new depth to leaders and religions.
• City Spells
  • Exactly what it sounds like; Your cities are now able to cast spells. As of now, the mechanic is primarily used by World Spells and the Sidar, but it will be expanded upon.
• Modular Python
  • This particular mechanic doesn't really effect the player, but it allows for FAR more complex modules; Those that would not have worked together before, are now fully compatible. This has created a very active modding community.
• Game Launcher
  • Developed in conjunction with Modular Python, this launcher allows you to configure active modules, maps, INI settings, and how you load (Main Menu, save, last autosave, etc).
• Website
  • We have a blog, where we announce new mechanics and plans.
  • We have a wiki, where players are free to contribute and assist in developing a useful informational tool.

I also left out a civilization (modular, so it doesn't show in the wiki category yet):

• Mekaran Order (by Jheral) - An order of transhumanist rebel Amurites, who have joined with a faction of Calabim.

 

[Iskar Jarak]

Scions of Patria - Everyone knows these guys.

unfortunately there are significant differences for these guys in every modmod that has them.

 

[Valkrionn]

This is true... But the version in RifE is the original.

Both Orbis and WM made their own changes to them.

 

[Sjru]

Uh, those features should be listed on "Download and changelog".
I've also had the same trouble when I first downloaded Rife, I didn't know what it was or what it had, I just downloaded it and prayed that it was good.

 

[Valkrionn]

They will be, eventually, in a much expanded format.

 

[KrugSmash]

Having played Orbis exclusively before Ahwaric went MIA, I've found that I actually prefer RifE in many aspects. I miss a lot of the little details that orbis had, but overall I'm very happy. And I'm very glad not to have to deal with a spy system.

 

[Shiawase]

Excellent, this is exact topic I was looking for, while downloading another mod (this one) for FfH2. Last tried one was Fall Further, which was just easier to find in this forum, but which I didn't enjoy a lot. Just like much of other ppl I try to find "the best and latest mod which would continue original FfH2 direction". Hopefully, this mod is what I'm looking for, because it's really hard to navigate in this mess of mods, modmods, modmodmods, modmodmodmods etc. Why don't all of modders just form single group and develop single product together? So that as a result there would be single and well-made product. Well, don't mind answering, just rhetorical question.
I'd suggest rewriting current download topic to include answers for OP questions. Also it'd be a good idea to add an image there. I.e. the one used for your off. site.
BTW, I guess there isn't any kind of manual with all new features and mechanics listed altogether, which would give a whole picture? The one for FfH2 in PDF came in really handy, helping to understand new mechanics after playing vanilla civ4. I saw your related wiki - and found it quite inconvenient. Not only there isn't much info, but its format looks more like changelog divided by groups. Ofc, I understand that the project is still young and everything is in the future yet. I'll summarize - first thing this mod lacks (at the stage of deciding download it or not) is something that would give some general picture of it. No, changelog is not the thing needed, there's just too much info.
Anyway, thanks to mod authors for their hard work.

 

[Deon]

Why don't all of modders just form single group and develop single product together? So that as a result there would be single and well-made product. Well, don't mind answering, just rhetorical question.

Actually there ARE three well-made products: Orbis, Wild Mana and Rise from Erebus.

All of them involve a central person who pulls the project behind and a group of people who help. I don't really know if Orbis have any real group though, but WildMana has a separate forum and RiFE has a dedicated group of modders. It just happened that we have 3 leaders. How is that bad?

 

[Shiawase]

Not that bad. Just as I wrote before too much "mod" word in this forum for people new here. So which one of them is better?

 

[inuyashasama]

They each have their own distinct flavors and differences. Give them all a try if you like and decide for yourself. I suspect that each person would pick differently.

I myself have only played Orbis and Rife. Of course the only reason I downloaded Orbis was because at the time Rife had some insane animals destroying Erebus

 

[Valkrionn]

Having played Orbis exclusively before Ahwaric went MIA, I've found that I actually prefer RifE in many aspects. I miss a lot of the little details that orbis had, but overall I'm very happy. And I'm very glad not to have to deal with a spy system.

Glad to hear you enjoy it.

Excellent, this is exact topic I was looking for, while downloading another mod (this one) for FfH2. Last tried one was Fall Further, which was just easier to find in this forum, but which I didn't enjoy a lot. Just like much of other ppl I try to find "the best and latest mod which would continue original FfH2 direction". Hopefully, this mod is what I'm looking for, because it's really hard to navigate in this mess of mods, modmods, modmodmods, modmodmodmods etc. Why don't all of modders just form single group and develop single product together? So that as a result there would be single and well-made product. Well, don't mind answering, just rhetorical question.

We don't all form one collaboration mod because we have different views of how the mod should develop, and how we should approach certain issues. We've worked with Ahwaric (creator of Orbis) fairly closely in the past, but there are still some of his changes we disagree with, and it would be even less likely for a collab with WM to occur.

Ultimately, it comes down to who we are as modders. Some of us have drastically different opinions on how to do things, and trying to get that to work in a single modteam is asking for trouble. As it is, Rise from Erebus has an excellent team, with 7 members; It is actually larger than the teams of most mods, let alone modmods.

Besides, variety is a good thing!

I'd suggest rewriting current download topic to include answers for OP questions. Also it'd be a good idea to add an image there. I.e. the one used for your off. site.
BTW, I guess there isn't any kind of manual with all new features and mechanics listed altogether, which would give a whole picture? The one for FfH2 in PDF came in really handy, helping to understand new mechanics after playing vanilla civ4. I saw your related wiki - and found it quite inconvenient. Not only there isn't much info, but its format looks more like changelog divided by groups. Ofc, I understand that the project is still young and everything is in the future yet. I'll summarize - first thing this mod lacks (at the stage of deciding download it or not) is something that would give some general picture of it. No, changelog is not the thing needed, there's just too much info.
Anyway, thanks to mod authors for their hard work.

Like I said, that will happen eventually. Just comes down to a question of time. When I get around to it it will be a new stickied thread, but I am still a college student. I am taking Physics, Calc II, Java, and Cinema Appreciation (like the Prof, had him for Religion, need another humanities). All on the same day. What time I have goes to finding a job, and actual modding.

On the wiki.... What exactly do you mean, a changelog divided into groups? It's split into categories and works rather like the in-game pedia. It does not list all items yet, no, but the entire purpose of the wiki is that of community contribution. The testers made MASSIVE contributions before 1.3 was released, but it is now open for the public to contribute to; If you dislike that there are missing entries, feel free to add them! The templates are easy to use and well documented.

Actually there ARE three well-made products: Orbis, Wild Mana and Rise from Erebus.

All of them involve a central person who pulls the project behind and a group of people who help. I don't really know if Orbis have any real group though, but WildMana has a separate forum and RiFE has a dedicated group of modders. It just happened that we have 3 leaders. How is that bad?

Agreed completely.

Orbis had Ahwaric, and Opera helped out; Hell, at least a couple mechanics/fixes were provided by myself. However, Ahwaric has pretty much vanished and Opera is now part of the RifE team.... Orbis isn't very active.

I would include Fall Further in that list as well, Deon, even if they are inactive as well; It was the first, and without it RifE wouldn't exist.

For actively developed mods, though, it's Rise from Erebus or Wild Mana.

Not that bad. Just as I wrote before too much "mod" word in this forum for people new here. So which one of them is better?

Neither is better. They are different. Some people like one better, others like the other; You have to decide for yourself.

The only real way to know is to try them all. A good way to guess, though, is to look at which modmod forums are the most active. And I wonder which one that is...

 

[Akka]

Without necessarily going into a full-fledged huge page describing everything, I think a simple page describing the general intent, "spirit", direction and changes of the mod would be nice.
Because, basically, the question is : "what exactly does this mod do ?", and I still don't have any idea except that "it adds and change civ and does stuff". And that's only because I read your list above.

When you started this mod, I suppose you had an intent. I doubt you started changing things at random
Well, here is the question : what is the intent of the mod ?
(and no, the "to be fun" answer is not the one we're looking for, that's just avoiding the spirit of the question )

 

[Valkrionn]

Well, the mod started as just Malakim+, which affected only the Malakim.

However, the intent of that initial mod is still very much alive, and can be stated in one sentence:

Rise from Erebus aims to breathe new life into Fall from Heaven 2, by making existing civilizations more flavorful and fun to be play, introducing new content and mechanics, and simply making the game even more fun to play than it already is.

That's it. The scale has expanded massively since then, but the intent remains the same; Make FfH more flavorful, interesting, and fun.

Edit: I'll try and find some time today to start a "Rise from Erebus Frequently Asked Questions" thread, where I'll list content from this thread and try to answer new questions.

 

[Deon]

Well, the mod started as just Malakim+, which affected only the Malakim.

I'm glad you remember it . And I am still glad that you picked it up. If not that... I don't know. I just love RiFE now.

And yeah, you can't say "this is the spirit we pursue". You have to play a lot to actually get what is it. It's like to say "what is a difference between St.-Petersburg and London". Too many stuff to list. You have to visit both cities and live in them a lot to actually understand it, no guides or articles can provide enough experience. And still it will be an unique experience for everyone, based on the fact where they live and how do they see the environment.

 

[azzedar]

Goblins have been removed from the civ and will re-enter as a civ of their own!

mbbbbwaaaah?
want to know more!

 

[Valkrionn]

Nope.