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Concerning the Boy-King

Discussion in 'Fall from Heaven Lore' started by Balactus, Jul 1, 2008.

  1. Balactus

    Balactus Chieftain

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    Is Cardith Lorda the person that Eurobatres is working with to help bring himself back into the material world?
     
  2. evanb

    evanb Prince

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    Short answer: yes :)
     
  3. Broken Hawk

    Broken Hawk Emperor

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    What's the story?
     
  4. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    Look in Eurabatres's civopedia entry.
    Or, you can look right here:
    It remembered its glory days, remembered speed, talons, acid and the beat of leathery wings. Above all it remembered fire and burning. There was no nose to smell with, no skin to feel with, but the sensation of heat and smoke and flame lingered.

    The consciousness stirred. The gods had lost interest in it and its kind long ago, or yesterday. Tomorrow, possibly. Time and physical space had little meaning in this place, there was only thought. Consciousness. Existence. Existence was the word. Cogito, ergo existo.

    This was the place where the war machines of the gods went to... not die. Be stored. Rest. The consciousness would not rest. It remembered when it had been the Golden One, the most powerful creature of the created. Then it had fought the enemy across the planes. With fire, with acid. The enemy was still there, disturbing rest like a tingling pain, a constant drip of water in the darkened room of the mind. How could it be possible to rest without cauterising this mental sore?

    And so, while the others rested, the consciousness had spent all this time - these few short moments - searching for a gate back to the world, a way to complete work left unfinished. Finally, after much trial and error, the mind had broken free, to flit about in an alien world. Physical form, however, would have to come later. That would require help. Rituals would have to be said, a portal created. It would have to enlist the aid of some the diverse, chattering, confused, weak but numerous intelligences that had risen to become masters of this planet since the consciousness had been put to rest.

    For many of this place's years, the consciousness had been searching for a suitable host and ally among the occasional spikes of brilliance in a sea of mundane and feeble minds. Some spikes had been been heavy and brooding, like a pregnant storm cloud, some sharp and cold as a stiletto. Some had been as wispy and intangible as fog, and some had lit up in bright and shifting flashes of colour and noise, signifying a growing madness. Far too many had stung with the taint of the enemy.

    None had been perfect, before this one. Awash with potential both magical and cerebral, but still malleable. As the consciousness approached, the source of the spike became clear: a small child crying amid the ruins of a burned homestead.

    Their minds would merge, to mutual benefit. One would gain long life and power. The other, eventually, would gain... form.
     
  5. Milosrdenstvi

    Milosrdenstvi Chieftain

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    Any ideas as to what "the taint the enemy" would be? Would it be magic, as Ceridwen (the creator of Abashi) was the one who introduced that to the world? Was Ceridwen the enemy of Amathaon? (Doesn't it seem strange that one of the gentlest of the gods would create the strongest thing in creation?)
     
  6. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    I believe by taint he means evil- probably the AV. We do not know who Amathaon's main rivals were, but I believe Cerdiwen's is Nantosuelta.
     
  7. smjjames

    smjjames Emperor

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    I'm not sure if it's been established that Amathaon is the patron god of the Kuriotates. Still, is Erubatres the creation of Amathaon?

    I'm pretty sure these were the Balseraphs.

    I'm also wondering what this 'taint of the enemy' is, whatever it is, it's pretty common. I guess the young Cardith had not been exposed or affected by whatever it's referring to.

    There were probably as many sides in the war during the Age of Dragons as there were gods fighting in it.
     
  8. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    The Kuriorate sphere is Creation, which Amathaon is the god of. All civs, save the Mercurians, revere the god of their sphere.

    Amathaon did create Eubrates.
     
  9. smjjames

    smjjames Emperor

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    okay.

    It is a bit wierd that one of the most peaceful gods created the most powerful 'weapon' of that whole war.

    edit: Technically Basium is Arawn's archangel. Although since Sucellus came back from the dead and took up the sphere of life, I guess Basium could be considered a free agent or rogue angel, depending on how you look at it.
     
  10. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    It has been established that Amathaon is the Kuriotates' patron, and that Eurabatres is his creation.



    On the Mana chart, Creation is the opposite of Entropy. Thus, "the Enemy" is probably Agares. "The Taint of the Enemy" would be any form of corruption. It wouldn't just be following the Ashen Veil, which probably hadn't been founded yet. The most common taint is almost certainly Greed, as most mortals who wind up in hell go to Mammon's hell. Keep in mind though that it was Agares who managed to corrupt the other evil gods, so their "taint" would ultimately be his too.

    It would seem that a mind free of the taint would mean that Cardith was a sinless being. However, it was also been stated that the Agares taint was so pervasive that it touched all of Creation, and nothing in creation would survive if The One lashed out to destroy the taint. That is why The One has not returned, out of mercy for those who, he created. Although suppose it is theoretically possible (in Erebus) for a faultless being to be born in a faulty world, I just got tho thinking. Wouldn't Eurabatres, Amathaon, and all the good gods also bear the taint in some degree? Does that mean that if Cardith was faultless, the merger with Euabatres introduced a slight corruption?




    I'm pretty sure that Kael has said that "the most powerful creature of the created" actually mean that he is the strongest being created by anyone expect The One. This would actually imply that Eurabatres is stronger than any archangel, or even than the current God of Nature.



    It does seem odd that the gentle god of butterflies would also create the strongest and most destructive being in creation. Maybe he thought that such a creation would be able to restore peace most quickly?




    I'd like to think that Angels and Dragons are more than other soulless creations. The only way I can see to explain them having The Divine Spark though is to say that the god who created them did not merely form them from their aspect, but from their very soul. Every angel and dragon would then have its own divine spark, but not necessarily one of the same nature as a human would. (This would also mean that Dwarves have souls formed from Kilmorph's, but their souls are of the same nature as her angels rather than humanity.)

    Since the god's power is not infinite, he loses much of it with ever he makes a creature with a soul. This means that the stronger the creation, the weaker the creator becomes. I think this fits the FfH mythology quite well. Sucellus was generally considered to be the weak (especially by Basium), but his archangel was the strongest of them all. This would mean that Sucellus used more of his own divine spawk to form Sucellus than the other gods used to form their archangels. It would also mean that Agare, who never created an angel, is definitely the strongest of the gods. Since Eurabatres is greater than any archangel, Amathaon probably has the least power left with which to fight. He could have created Eurabatres so that he could personally remain gentle and uninvolved, but have his creations defend him. Sucellus was also considered to be uninvolved in the godswar, but his archangel was extremely active, even attacking Agares directly.


    I'm also thinking that splitting a soul like that could happen "asymmetrically," causing the god's personality and that of the archangel to become quite different, but still exemplify their aspect. A god could have tried to preserve qualities (like gentleness) that he liked in himself and so kept those qualities while putting the other aspects of himself into his creations, he could have specifically tried to give his creations the qualities most needed to help him fight the godswar (thus leaving himself deficient in those qualities), it could have been completely uncontrolled, or it could have been sunconcious. If this is the case, Amathaon could be the gentlest god specifically because he created the greatest beast of destruction that Creation has ever seen. The same would be true of Sucellus and Cernunnos, but to a lesser extent. It could also mean that Arawn's unwillingness to get involved in creation is the result of creating Basium (and Gyra, but she isn't nearly as different from Arawn as Basium is). (Despite having two precepts, when Arawn created two archangels from his own soul he may have become one of the weakest gods.)


    I am also of the opinion that Os-Gabella must have a soul, since she is so good at magic. I suppose that it is possible that each god gave her a small fragment of his, but I prefer to think that she and Nemed were once one. She would thus essentially be his archangel, but this would be the only case where the split was actually 50-50. It could be that Nemed specifically tried to preserve his identity when this happened, making sure that he held onto the traits that he liked best in himself and for which the other gods respected him. However, non even a god has such a one dimensional personality, at least once his soul is freed to multiple aspects of creation. Thus, his darker side was all that was left for Gabella. Selflessness was a core part of his personality, but there was still enough of an ego to not want to sacrifice self sacrifice. He wouldn't recognize himself without goodwill, and so wouldn't sacrifice this part of self sacrifice. Without this, his other half still possessed a willingness to give up her very being (as shown both his his willingness to give up godhood and her quest for suicide), but that was twisted into both Sadism and Masochism. Thus, the desire to be Good (and especially to be able to consider oneself good) created Evil, and may have doomed us all. That may be an odd moral to convey, but I think it fits quite well in a dark fantasy like FfH, where Balance is valued over any extreme.
     
  11. sylvanllewelyn

    sylvanllewelyn Perma-newb

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    I always thought the boy-king *is* Eurabatre's soul merged with the child. After all, being an experienced ruler of a kingdom gives it a lot more than just providing it with a large creature, doesn't it? Besides,

    As for the Angels imparting a part of his/her own soul (I imagine they chose which "gender" they revealed themselves in before mortals), I wouldn't imagine giving certain traits to the archangel. Rather, the trait will be similar to their own, but not exactly, as anything with free will shall become different very quickly. But that does get me thinking: does Nemed still count as a mortal or an Angel? Could his immortal life finally be ended with the Godslayer, as well as that of Os-gabella?
     
  12. thomas.berubeg

    thomas.berubeg Wandering the World

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    I don't think so... as neither he nor Os-Gabella signed the Compact, and )MC correct if i'm wrong) but only those gods that signed the compact are Killable by the godslayer, which is not just a weapon, but rather the physical manifestation of the promise of the gods not to enter creation and thier acceptence of a punishment should they enter.
     
  13. Darksaber1

    Darksaber1 Secret Emperor

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    Nemed would only be vulnerable if he was a signature of the Compact.
    Edit: Ninjad!
     
  14. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    It hasn't been tested and no one knows for sure, but it is generally believed that it the Godslayer's power to kill a god comes from the god's oath to be killable if he breaks the compact. Thus, it would probably be worthless against the non-signatory Nemed and Os-Gabella. It is less clear as to whether Cernunnos would be vulnerable to it. Of course, since he was no created by The One is is entirely possible that he could be killed even without such a weapon.
     
  15. smjjames

    smjjames Emperor

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    you know, I wonder if this is the reason why Bhall spared her archangel. If her archangel is formed from some qualities of hers, Bhall probably didn't want to destroy those qualities because that would be like losing a part of your soul, for the gods at least.

    It doesn't really explain all of the archangels though, for example, Taranis the unchanging, if Mulcarn gave that part of himself up, he wouldn't be so unchanging.
     
  16. wilboman

    wilboman Hibernorse Frost Giant

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    Which may go a bit of the way towards explaining why he takes action in the world, rather than just doing what he's always done.
     
  17. Ksi

    Ksi Warlord

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    Magister: Was Hyboyrem not created by Agares? I always assumed he was.
     
  18. Rex rgis of Ter

    Rex rgis of Ter Me I'm a Creator

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    Civilopedia states he is the dark side of Cerruneous. Read the Fal from Heaven history section and you'll find out.
     
  19. MagisterCultuum

    MagisterCultuum Great Sage

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    Nope. Agares neve created any angels, only corrupted them.

     
  20. Vitek

    Vitek Chieftain

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    What hapeens to Cardith when Eurabatres is "created" (summoned)?
    Does the dragon leave his mind?
    If he does, is Cardith stil the capable ruler able to maintain kingdom or does he rever to his childish state of mind?
    And if the Golden dragon doesn't leave his mind then why he is doing so?:)
     

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