Naokaukodem
Millenary King
- Joined
- Aug 8, 2003
- Messages
- 3,951
What would you think it has to be kept in 7 from 6 that couldn't go back to 5 ?
For me, it's the Eurekas. Don't get me wrong, i'm not totally comfortable with them as a player, and as designing philosophy it doesn't fulfil its goal. (the one I suppose at least : "playing the map" and develop differently according to your environment, like ideas like "if I spawn near the sea, I should be able to travel in it earlier than other civs", which kinda works, but players that desesperate for sea travel will just pop a city near it, not live with what they have at beginning, like settling on spot, or might reload the game entirely)
Thing is, the player will force himself to complete the little quests for each tech, so he will go faster in science, whereas it is supposed to work the other way around, be passive bonuses given by your surroundings, not your direct action. (I believe)
So we could at least "improve" (depending on the point of view) this for 7.
Ironically, if I don't feel totally comfortable with them is because it happens to me quite often to have the next techs to pick without a single Eureka. And then I feel I missed something, I'm unhappy. I guess that's a pervert effect of having active actions to do in order to get those Eurekas.
On the other hand, while I like to have some event that makes me earn some era score, I'm happy, alas in Deity I often fell short to have golden ages, which make me very unhappy.
However, "era score" actions are less active and documented than Eurekas, so it should fit my wishes for Eurekas instead. But often not everything implemented has the desired effects, or unhappy side ones. I think that it's because era score is more or less acquired like eurekas that it ends up being yet other ones, like the Civ1 tech tree that we knew by advance through playing or looking at the picture in the game box. (I think there was a poster of the tech tree in it) That's why random techs has been invented, alas I'm unsure whether the AI knows it anyway and cheats so I never pick it.
So, we should try at least to find ways to make "Eurekas" more systematic, less predictable, a sum of determinism and randomness. One possible way would be to make the eurekas granted provided you spawn near some feature. But as the player would learn to know them and colonize the approppriate lands, they should also have a range of randomness : for example, the eurekas for boosting a tech might not be always the same. The more possible eurekas for the same tech, the better. But it seems difficult to achieve with logic. Let's try this : if you spawn near water, coast or river or lake or oasis, a given player might have the sailing boost only if he spawns near coast, and another one only if he spawns near oasis. Another example : military techs could be researched faster if you live in the hills. Or if you spawn near copper. Or if you spawn in the steppes. Or you have only one city and are de facto a city-State. (every civ would be candidate for this, unless we change the "only one settler first" rule, and many others in its track)
But that wouldn't work. Why ? Because when playing Civ5 after 6, I felt eurekas were missing because they were giving a whole new aspect of interactivity. A gritty, shining aspect of abundance. More sense of the universe of the game. More things to do.
And I don't know if "more systematic, less predictable" eurekas would have the same effect. What do you think about that ? (difficult question, heh)
Anyway. What would you think it has to be kept in 7 from 6 that couldn't go back to 5 ?
For me, it's the Eurekas. Don't get me wrong, i'm not totally comfortable with them as a player, and as designing philosophy it doesn't fulfil its goal. (the one I suppose at least : "playing the map" and develop differently according to your environment, like ideas like "if I spawn near the sea, I should be able to travel in it earlier than other civs", which kinda works, but players that desesperate for sea travel will just pop a city near it, not live with what they have at beginning, like settling on spot, or might reload the game entirely)
Thing is, the player will force himself to complete the little quests for each tech, so he will go faster in science, whereas it is supposed to work the other way around, be passive bonuses given by your surroundings, not your direct action. (I believe)
So we could at least "improve" (depending on the point of view) this for 7.
Ironically, if I don't feel totally comfortable with them is because it happens to me quite often to have the next techs to pick without a single Eureka. And then I feel I missed something, I'm unhappy. I guess that's a pervert effect of having active actions to do in order to get those Eurekas.
On the other hand, while I like to have some event that makes me earn some era score, I'm happy, alas in Deity I often fell short to have golden ages, which make me very unhappy.
However, "era score" actions are less active and documented than Eurekas, so it should fit my wishes for Eurekas instead. But often not everything implemented has the desired effects, or unhappy side ones. I think that it's because era score is more or less acquired like eurekas that it ends up being yet other ones, like the Civ1 tech tree that we knew by advance through playing or looking at the picture in the game box. (I think there was a poster of the tech tree in it) That's why random techs has been invented, alas I'm unsure whether the AI knows it anyway and cheats so I never pick it.
So, we should try at least to find ways to make "Eurekas" more systematic, less predictable, a sum of determinism and randomness. One possible way would be to make the eurekas granted provided you spawn near some feature. But as the player would learn to know them and colonize the approppriate lands, they should also have a range of randomness : for example, the eurekas for boosting a tech might not be always the same. The more possible eurekas for the same tech, the better. But it seems difficult to achieve with logic. Let's try this : if you spawn near water, coast or river or lake or oasis, a given player might have the sailing boost only if he spawns near coast, and another one only if he spawns near oasis. Another example : military techs could be researched faster if you live in the hills. Or if you spawn near copper. Or if you spawn in the steppes. Or you have only one city and are de facto a city-State. (every civ would be candidate for this, unless we change the "only one settler first" rule, and many others in its track)
But that wouldn't work. Why ? Because when playing Civ5 after 6, I felt eurekas were missing because they were giving a whole new aspect of interactivity. A gritty, shining aspect of abundance. More sense of the universe of the game. More things to do.
And I don't know if "more systematic, less predictable" eurekas would have the same effect. What do you think about that ? (difficult question, heh)
Anyway. What would you think it has to be kept in 7 from 6 that couldn't go back to 5 ?
