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congress questions???

Discussion in 'Civ4 - Rhye's and Fall of Civilization' started by holy king, Oct 2, 2006.

  1. holy king

    holy king Chieftain

    Joined:
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    Location:
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    1.what determines what cities a civilization can claim during a congress????

    iv played as rome (holding together france and greece who both declared independence twice and fighting off spain simultanously btw :crazyeye: )
    when suddenly my best buddy germany claimed for mediolanum...... and declared war upon not getting it...

    so i thought it would be cities with overlapping culture in city radius... but
    then when i played japan, i couldnt claim for seol (wich was strongly influenced by kyotos culture), but the germans could claim for a chinese cosatal city and actually got it???

    2. can a city lost due to a congress flip back?
     
  2. Appren

    Appren Chieftain

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    1. ) (others might say different) - but its totally random!
    2. ) no clue, since I never accept the demands anyway :D
     
  3. Rhye

    Rhye 's and Fall creator

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    1. not true. it's chosen randomly within a poll of possible choices that include cities close to borders and in "highly valued" locations (corresponding to where the settlers want to go). Cities belonging to a player that's just born or that's considered friendly are always excluded.
     
  4. Goa

    Goa Chieftain

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    Ah, that explains why once, when I was playing India, the french demanded (and got!!) my city which was located in Indochina... still very strange as the city was mine for thousands of years, I was second powerful behind the russians but far ahead of the french and the french didn't even have one city in asia.
    Sincerly, while the congress is a good idea, stuff like that feels "strange".
     
  5. NitroJay

    NitroJay Chieftain

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    Sep 20, 2006
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    Tecumseh, MI
    It is odd sometimes... When I was playing India, the English requested (and got) Mandalay... I figure if I was playing as China, and founded the city of Hong Kong, the English would be going after that one too... I think the congress is a good idea, but it's just weird when I lose a city out of the blue... It wouldn't be so bad if I got some compensation for giving up the city, but I don't know how/if that would even work...
     
  6. Sovietof17

    Sovietof17 Chieftain

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    congress should be eliminated. it is simply unfun. i've never received a city before.
     
  7. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I don´t think it should be eliminated, but I´m also not happy with it´s current state. Personally I think it should be limited to cities that were founded by the civ and it is in another hands, or that it has a good amount of the civ´s culture. I don´t like the idea of giving away city just because they had it in RL, while in the game they did nothing to deserve it.
     
  8. NeoT

    NeoT Nobody

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    Feb 24, 2004
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    Location:
    Santiago, Chile
    Congress should not be eliminated. There the civilizations just ask for the cities they want, even if they did nothing to deserve it. But i think that the AI should refuse to leave the cities more often (if it even happens). And maybe a bonus when you give away your city (Better relations whit the civilizations that voted "YES")
     
  9. Hitti-Litti

    Hitti-Litti läski apina

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    I like congress, but it would be better, if you could claim 1) cities 2-0 tiles away from your border. 2) cities you have founded. 3) cities what are not in the owners homeland and claimer has a city in the continent.
     
  10. Sovietof17

    Sovietof17 Chieftain

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    the congress makes no sense. what civilization would just up and leave a city to give it to someone else? i dont understand why it's in the game. it sucks and I hate it. I wish I could disable it.
     
  11. dc82

    dc82 Chieftain

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    Location:
    New York, NY
    I'll admit I'm not terribly fond of the Congress, esp. now when it makes seemingly random demands. If the Congress was to stay, it'd be better as others have suggested:

    1. Cities caught in the borders between you and the other civ
    2. Cities you have conquered from the other civ
    3. Cities with a significant population from the other civ
    4. Holy city of the official religion the civ currently possesses
    5. Cities located in a the area of a Unique Goal/Achievement of the other civ

    Also, I don't know if EVERYONE who voted against you should all declare war. I think refusing a city claim should result in a 50/50 chance of war with the civ trying to take your city. If he has any allies, they can join the war later on.
     
  12. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    Also how about an option of not being involved (or loosing cities at all) by saying no when they ask if you want to join?
     
  13. sikandar323

    sikandar323 Chieftain

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    Location:
    Argentina
    I think the World Congress would be work to stop war and exchange cities between the two sides in war. Each side in war claims a city, the congress decided who win, and if the loser side refuse the decision, some of the countries that vote againts its, declare war.
     
  14. McA123

    McA123 Chieftain

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    It was attempted to set congresses to occur after peace treaties were signed, but it wasn't possible.

    I'm not exactly a big fan of the congress system, since I usually just refuse demands anyways, but i think it still does need a bit of tweaking.
     
  15. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I had my first congress of the game earlier in my German UHV game and as the top dog I do get the feeling that congresses are extremely unfun. At least as they are right now. Even when a demand is theoretically "fair", like Russia demanding that I return Sankt-Peterburg, there's something that feels unnatural and unfair that I get into a war with both Russia (an ally since the last war and until this one) and France (who signed a peace treaty with me two turns prior to the congress), all this over a city I conquered centuries ago (must have been at least 500 years ago) and developed from practically zilch to the prosperous center of culture that it is now.
    I think maybe the Congress system has to be rehashed so instead of being a tool for the weak to slow down the strong, it becomes a tool for diplomacy to force changes in the power balance. That is, it should be a much more diplomatic thing. The AI should mainly think about helping its friends and harming its enemies, and not about harming the strong and helping the weak. There should also be more leeway for controlling the results by diplomatic manipulation. I don't quite know what should be done but the way things are right now is definately unfun in many situations.
    One idea that I can imagine as an example but will probably not be implemented is congress alliances - agreements between a group of allies to vote together in congress: on members' requests, always YES; on requests to take a member's city, always NO; on non-members' requests, by whatever the majority of members votes. This way if you have a group of close friends you can secure a lot of power in congresses.
    That makes more sense than needing to keep a low profile to be able to keep your cities. It should be fun to succeed, not a pain in the ass. It does make sense that the top dog gets into major wars over small territorial disputes, but that should be programmed into regular diplomacy, not a mechanism for stripping away leaders' cities by force.
     
  16. kairob

    kairob Biohazard

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    I kinda agree with you, I think choosing it on diplo relations makes more sence :)
     
  17. Blasphemous

    Blasphemous Graulich

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    I actually just thought of another way, possibly simpler, to make the congress more diplomatic. I was thinking how it annoys me that every invited nation gets one vote when sometimes that means the two-city pariah gets to decide on the half-continent beloved-by-all diplomat. It wouldn't be fair to give out votes like in the UN because then the big guy will always decide. But how about giving votes to the popular guys?
    Here's what I propose: instead of the whole bribery system, have a system where you get to nominate diplomats. Each invited civ gets 3 nominations, and you have to pick three civs to give them out to. You have to give 3 out no matter what, even if you don't like anybody. The AI will choose who to give nominations to based on relations: their best friends will get nominations, and they will avoid at all costs giving nomination to civs they have taken cities from. They will prefer smaller civs when all else is equal. To make things more diplomatic and interesting, create a diplo bonus "+1 You gave us a nomination in Congress!". This way you can use nominations to pacify relations with other civs and to make your nominations possibly help you (by making the nominated civ like you more). After nominations are distributed, each civ has 1 vote per nomination. Simple as that. If you make sure to keep your enemies to a minimum, the world will not gang up on you and redistribute your cities. If you have too many enemies you will end up strengthening them by giving them nominations.
    Does this idea make sense to you all?
     
  18. Elhoim

    Elhoim Iron Tower Studio Dev

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    I think it´s a great one, Blas! :goodjob:
     
  19. Tom Veil

    Tom Veil Chieftain

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    I like Blas's idea, too, but I'll support any idea that helps the Congress function stay in the game. I think it's a wonderful idea; it just needs to value the history of diplomacy leading up to the Congress. Otherwise, the net effect is that in the late game, every player ends up hating every other player. That's a little too dystopian.
     
  20. Willowmound

    Willowmound Wordbug

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    I've stoppet playing this mod because of the Congress system -- it just sucks the fun right out.

    The only reason I'm reading the forum now, was to see whether it had been changed. Guess not :(

    Such a shame.
     

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