Conquests final update: How about unit cost tweaking?

Gen

Prince
Joined
Apr 7, 2002
Messages
518
Location
Arcanus
Thanks to Conquests expansion we are able to play with unit costs, much more precisely than before. Developers did show some examples: Jaguar warriors and Curraghs (although there may be more in scenarios). After releasing 1.12b patch which is intended to be first of monthly(?) update series, Tavis asked for proposals for balance adjustments. Although that was mentioned in the context of multiplayer games, single player could be addressed as well.
There are some old and new examples of units which are considered overpriced/underpriced by many players:

- Gallic Swordsman (cost decreased to 40, should be 45? 50? was it a good change?)
- Inca Chasqui Scout (I believe they could be worth 15 shields, no more)
- Immortal (too cheap?)
- Jaguar Warrior (tweaked already, I think it was right decision)
- Enkidu Warrior (too cheap?)

I think ancient and early medieval age are the only eras which need tweaking (later units are more expensive but production capability grows faster than price). Remember, if developers ask for feedback, we have good chance to see changes implemented in the final update, especially if suggestions will come from experienced players who devoted much of their time to master the gameplay skills! And don't limit your considerations for unique units only!

I personally would like to see chariots for 15 shields (I could then see some actually in the game!), Chasqui for 15 and Enkidu for 15 too.

What are your proposals?
 
Ok my suggestions:

Paratrooper and Modern Paratrooper +1 attack.
Guerrilla and TOW Infantry -10 cost.
Ironclads +1 Move.

--------------------------

Would decreasing musketman cost by 10 be a good idea?
I also think the gallic Swordsman cost of 40 is just about right.

Otherwise Chasqui cost to 15, Enkidu cost to 15, Chariot to 15 just like gen said.
 
What should be the price of Jaguar warriors?
If it is 15 then Chasqui will be much better.
 
I agree with increasing the ironclad's move by one, shouldn't it be able to faster than a galley but slower than a frigate? IMO, the Gallic swordsman is fine as is, at 50 it was overpriced.
 
I like the new Ironclad, and having it with the same move as a galley is about right, given the unreliability of the early ironclads, the steam engines of that time struggled to move such a heavy ship, not to mention all the weight made them a heavy risk for capsizing or other problems in storms. That's why I think they ought to have the chance to sink in sea or ocean like a galley also, IMHO.
 
Originally posted by Dogmeat
What should be the price of Jaguar warriors?
If it is 15 then Chasqui will be much better.
You have a point. However, there is something wrong with Chasqui in general, see other players opinions in another thread:
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?s=&threadid=73907
They are just not worth 20 shields for minor benefits they give. I'd like to see them 0.1.2 for 15 shields (can defend themselves but can't attack so Jaguars would be better for military) or 1.1.1 + all terrain as roads for 20 shields. But as it is now, I really don't get the point.
 
Originally posted by Justus II
I like the new Ironclad, and having it with the same move as a galley is about right, given the unreliability of the early ironclads, the steam engines of that time struggled to move such a heavy ship, not to mention all the weight made them a heavy risk for capsizing or other problems in storms. That's why I think they ought to have the chance to sink in sea or ocean like a galley also, IMHO.

What I don't get is why they're suddenly upgradeable - and to a unit (destroyer) with more than double the movement!! All for the low low price of 90 gold.

Is this to offset the cost of going and researching the separate tech now needed for them?
 
Hmmm... I dont think removing the offense on chasqui will solve the problem. Jaguars are 1.1.2 and we dont want to change that.
Chasqui are 1.1.2 and can move faster on hills and mountains and we dont want to change that.
So we have to tweak the costs. Maybe even go so far as to give them costs of 13 and 16 or something like that... No?

Another thing is the musketeers.
Right now they are:
Def:5
Off:2
and a defensive bombard of 2.
That is so wrong.
Naturally the musketeers weapons are better offensively than regular muskets since they dont have to mount their guns on supports.

So I say they should be:
Off:4
Def:4
and remove the bombard.
Does that make them too weak?
If so, let them keep the bombard.
 
Originally posted by Dogmeat
So I say they should be:
Off:4
Def:4
and remove the bombard.
Does that make them too weak?
If so, let them keep the bombard.

If cost gets reduced to 50 shields, then 4/4/1 would make pretty nice UU (and alternative to Knights).
 
Originally posted by Dogmeat

Hmmm... I dont think removing the offense on chasqui will solve the problem.
[...]
Chasqui are 1.1.2 and can move faster on hills and mountains and we dont want to change that.
So we have to tweak the costs.
But why don't we want to change that? Removing an attack point would just eliminate the problem of Chasqui being equal to or better from Jaguar. He would be simply scout, not the attacker, just as intended.
 
Originally posted by Gen

But why don't we want to change that? Removing an attack point would just eliminate the problem of Chasqui being equal to or better from Jaguar. He would be simply scout, not the attacker, just as intended.

But if you remove attack, then AI would never build that unit.
So only time you'll see this unit is when playing Incas yourself.
 
How would I tweak the costs:

Mounted Warrior and Immortals, cost 35
Enkidu Warrior, cost 15
Hoplite, cost 25 (nobody attaks Greek in MP)
Galic Swordsmen. cost 45 (beacuse MW got more expensive)
Ansar Warrior, cost 65 (+1 movment is a lot)
Chinese Radier, cost 75 (yes, it will make upgrading too Cavalry easyer, but you already have better movement, so you only gain extra attack)
Swiss Mercenery, cost 35
Musketmen and Musketeer, cost 50

Incan Scout, cost 15
non UU Chariot, cost 15

Jaguar Warrior, cost 13 (because of Incas and Chariots)
 
Originally posted by player1 fanatic

But if you remove attack, then AI would never build that unit.
So only time you'll see this unit is when playing Incas yourself.
Are you sure? After all, AI builds regular scouts (zero attack). If the flag "explore" strat is checked, I don't see problem with that.
 
Originally posted by Gen

Are you sure? After all, AI builds regular scouts (zero attack). If the flag "explore" strat is checked, I don't see problem with that.

As far as I know, AI does not build regular Scouts.
It only uses the one it get at start for free.
 
well. The Pacachuti of the incans use to say:
My scouts will stomp you!
So yes! They ARE intended to be fairly militaristic units.
 
The following are Industrial/Modern price INCREASES:
Tank, Panze: 120 instead of 100
Mech Inf: 120 instead of 110
Modern Armor: 160 instead of 120
Nuc Sub: 160 instead of 140
AEGIS Cruiser: 180 instead of 160 (no way should it cost zero to upgrade from a cruiser)!
 
Top Bottom